Front End Noise (1 Viewer)

[carbon60]

So I rebuilt the front axle on my 1994 HDJ81. It was time, the clicking was bad. Got everything from Cruiser Outfitters:

• All oil seals
• Bronze spindle bushings
• Birfield joints
• Drive flanges
• HD knuckle wipers
• Wheel bearings
• Some other stuff I’m probably forgetting

Not long afterwards, I started getting a very intermittent loud sick goose honk noise. Over about 10,000 KMs/6,000 miles it went from rare to quite frequent and from only happening at slow trail speeds to happening at highway speeds. My copilot got some video:



It’s very loud, which the video doesn’t do justice to. If I’m in the LH seat, I’m certain it’s coming from the left, but feel the same when driving in the RH seat as it sounds like it’s on the right. I felt vibration in the floor when it happened, once or twice. But mostly it’s only sound.

I don’t see any grease leaking from the knuckles, but I checked the diff and found contamination, but not with moly which I think would be gray:

I’m looking for suggestions as to what I should look at with basic tools in a parking lot, until I can get back to my home area and get it on a lift and take everything apart. Ideas?

Thanks,

A.

 

[baldilocks]

I’d say that your new bronze spindle bushings are not happy and probably toast at this point. New spindles come with needle bearings installed.

 

[carbon60]

I’d say that your new bronze spindle bushings are not happy and probably toast at this point. New spindles come with needle bearings installed.

Any idea why that would happen?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Any idea why that would happen?

Inadequately greased when assembled during knuckle rebuild?

 

[carbon60]

Inadequately greased when assembled during knuckle rebuild?

The bushings are exposed directly to the knuckle cavity, how could they not be greased sufficiently?

Is it simply a question of greasing the shaft before sliding into the spindle?

Thanks,

A.

 

[mudgudgeon]

No, the spindle bushing absolutely should be packed with grease on first install.
Installing the spindles with the bushing dry is gonna be a death sentence on the bushing.

Is a very small passage for grease to find its way into. Sure, over time grease will get to it, but it's gonna take time

 

[carbon60]

Since I would prefer to complete a 2000 KM/1250 mile segment of trip, my temporary plan is as follows:

1. Check that the stub axles wiggle freely, if not abandon.
2. Stick a stir stick into the cavity to see if there is much less grease than expected.
3. Buy a grease gun and moly, use that to fill the cavity. Top up with gear oil, and pray.
4. If the noise is still bad, abandon.

When I can get the truck home to a shop, inspect everything and replace the bushings. And put a metric s***load of grease into the knuckle… If that doesn’t do it, I’ll just order new spindles.

 

[baldilocks]

Do you have a center diff lock button on the dash? If so, lock the center diff, remove the front driveline and both drive flanges so you don’t turn the front axles.

If you don’t have a CDL switch on the dash it might be worth your time to access the CDL wire harness behind the dash and put a jumper across the pins to lock the center diff. There is no telling what greater problems you may encounter if you continue driving it the way it is now.

Or you could lock the center diff and finish your adventure in low range. LOL

 

[carbon60]

Do you have a center diff lock button on the dash? If so, lock the center diff, remove the front driveline and both drive flanges so you don’t turn the front axles.

If you don’t have a CDL switch on the dash it might be worth your time to access the CDL wire harness behind the dash and put a jumper across the pins to lock the center diff. There is no telling what greater problems you may encounter if you continue driving it the way it is now.

Or you could lock the center diff by finishing your adventure in low range. LOL

I do have a CDL.

You’d leave the hubs open to the environment with the flanges removed?

 

[baldilocks]

Yes, at this point I’d do it just for peace of mind. Buy a can of grease and keep the open hub packed if you want more protection.

 

[baldilocks]

I don’t know where you are or what kind of trip you are on but you could look into finding a cruiser shop/parts distributor and buy new spindles and fix it. I know that when I’ve don’t Riad trips in my 80 a lot of off road action was planned into it so I’d need 4wheel drive if I were you.

4 years ago I broke a Nitro axle shaft in Moab and had a new one shipped over night to a shop there. Cruiser outfitters has what you need if you are in Utah.

 

[mudgudgeon]

100% agree with baldilocks here.
Minimise damage, and get it home with the front end disabled

Keep going you're likely to destroy spindles, and axles at a minimum. $1000+ in parts right there.
Have one completely size could get really nasty, and cost you a lot more.

I do have a CDL.

You’d leave the hubs open to the environment with the flanges removed?

Tape up the end of the hub with some duct tape.
I have limped home more than once with hub flanges off, and tape on the hub to keep dirt out.
It's the lesser of two evils.

An alternative, find somewhere you can rip into the hubs, grease the bushings, button it up and go.
2 hours per side should be enough to tear down hubs enough to get spindles off, and all back together.
Keep parts laid out so everything stays clean.

The risk there is, you find damage that you can't ignore and button back up. In which case, you're back to pulling driveshaft and flanges to limp home in rear wheel drive

 

[carbon60]

100% agree with baldilocks here.
Minimise damage, and get it home with the front end disabled

Keep going you're likely to destroy spindles, and axles at a minimum. $1000+ in parts right there.
Have one completely size could get really nasty, and cost you a lot more.



Tape up the end of the hub with some duct tape.
I have limped home more than once with hub flanges off, and tape on the hub to keep dirt out.
It's the lesser of two evils.

An alternative, find somewhere you can rip into the hubs, grease the bushings, button it up and go.
2 hours per side should be enough to tear down hubs enough to get spindles off, and all back together.
Keep parts laid out so everything stays clean.

The risk there is, you find damage that you can't ignore and button back up. In which case, you're back to pulling driveshaft and flanges to limp home in rear wheel drive

I’m 99% sure the bushings were correctly greased when they were swapped.

A.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I’m 99% sure the bushings were correctly greased when they were swapped.

A.

Who did the work?

 

[mudgudgeon]

I’m 99% sure the bushings were correctly greased when they were swapped.

A.

So, assume they were well greased. What is the next possibility?

1 - siezed wheel bearing?
2 - siezed bearing in the diff centre?

3 - brakes rubbing? (Doesn't sound like this to me).

1- jack up each front wheel, pop drive flanges off, and rotate the hub.
If it's not rotating freely, dig deeper and check bearings
If it's rotating freely, and no play from rocking the wheel 6 - 12 o'clock, your probably good.

2 - before you pop drive flanges off the hubs, remove front driveshaft, have someone rotate a front wheel and listen to the diff with a screwdriver gripped in your fist, your ear resting on the top of your fist, and place the tip of the screw driver on different parts of the pumpkin to listen to bearings

Take it for a drive with flanges off, and drive shaft out, and CDL locked. If noise persists, is lush wheel bearings. I'd the noise stops, it's in the rotational parts within the front diff, so either at the spindles, or in the diff centre.

There's zero harm driving with flanges off, and driveshaft out.
If you're worried about dirt in the hubs, 10 minutes with a roll of PVC duct tape will sort that out.

 

[baldilocks]

Do like I I suggested and do a test drive if you have doubts. Would take an hour while your copilot take a shower.

 

[carbon60]

Do like I I suggested and do a test drive if you have doubts. Would take an hour while your copilot take a shower.

You mean test drive without front driveshaft?

I jacked each front wheel in turn and spun them. They all spin perfectly smoothly. The driveshaft u-joints have no play that I can detect, and neither does the pinion (companion flange?).

Took out the birfield fill plug and it seems to me that there isn’t sufficient grease in there as I could see the slight curve in the casting where the bushing must sit (can’t see the bronze, it’s obscured by the ABS ring.) But the grease that I pulled out on a stir stick looked perfect, so I don’t think there is any contamination.

There is approximately ⅛” of play in the wheels when rocked from 12 to 6, as measured by my Mark I Eyeball against the fender. My mechanic says that’s perfect for a cold hub.

A.

 

[baldilocks]

We are talking about small dimensions. Grease separates parts in a micro way. Do as you will.

 

[mudgudgeon]

There is approximately ⅛” of play in the wheels when rocked from 12 to 6, as measured by my Mark I Eyeball against the fender. My mechanic says that’s perfect for a cold hub.

If you can see play at the wheels, your bearings are too loose, period.

 

[mudgudgeon]

If you can see play at the wheels, your bearings are too loose, period.

To add to that, if you can feel movement rocking the wheel 12-6, there's gonna be more movement when you add dynamic loads through cornering and bump steer etc.

Preloading bearings with ~30lb preload with the inner bearing lock nut, you will have absolutely zero play in the bearings rocking the tire. And wheels will spin freely.

In my personal experience, once you can physically feel movement at the hub, you're on your way to bearing failure, and other issues.

Loose bearings can chatter in the races leading to further loss of preload, brinelling of parts, bearing races chattering on spindles, or spinning on spindle and galling the spindle, and thrust washers.
This accelerates exponentially.
Loose bearings can also show up as wandering steering, brake shudder, death wobbles.

My first 80 had a bearing collapse completely within a few weeks of ownership. When it collapsed, it locked that hub completely momentarily. It happened at 50mph, and tore the steering wheel out of my hand, and did a hard left before the siezed bearings snapped and released.
Luckily, there was no traffic, and I was a couple of miles from home.

I would take the time to check wheel bearings, remove flanges and driveshaft, get it home and do more in depth investigation.
Even if you have to buy a few tools, avoiding more damage will save you dollars.


Who did the work? What's their reputation like? What's their level of expertise working on cruisers?

From what you describe, loose bearings, lack of grease in knuckles, rotational grinding noises, sounds like you haven't been done any favours.