Front end noise with IFS lift "HELP" (1 Viewer)

[peebles24]

A friend of mine has a 93 extended cab with a 3 slow and an auto. When he purchased the truck it had a set of 33's and the torsion bars cranked to the max. With it set like that he was having to replace the half shafts about every year. He decided to do a Rough Country 4" lift, front cross member drop 4" rear blocks. He had an alignment done afterwards by a reputable local alignment shop. During the alignment they replaced both inner and outer tie rod ends, pitman arm, idler arm, and a torsion bar adjuster bolt. Just prior to the lift we replaced the drivers side half shaft. After the alignment was complete the truck sits with a rake. Measuring between the top of the tire and the bottom of the fender nets a difference of 1 1/4" with the front being lower. The front axles now are level, no angle what so ever. When turning at full lock, which has been previously shortened by adjusting the bump stops, there are some loud popping noises. The noises sound like axle bind, and are very noticeable even on the new axle side. I believe that just the opposite of having the torsion bars cranked to far up is the problem. When they are up the angle is poor and the shaft is basically to short. Now the angle is fine but I think the shaft is to long due to the fact that there is no angle to them.

Is this possible or should I look for another problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,
Chad P.

 

[kd4runner]

I would have to say you are on the right track with your shaft angles. It does sound like a binding problem and if you could try cranking up the front a little to level it out and put your cv's back at the correct angle. If you did a 4" lift front and reaf your rig should not have and "rake" to it at all. Its sounds to me like when they replaced that bolt for the torsion bar they didn't get the torsion bars set right. I would definatly say to crank them because it does sound like the shafts are compressed into them selves and raising the front end were it should be should take care of it. If that dosent work you may just be dealing with a bad cv joint. but I would raise the front first.
And remeber to raise the vehicle off the ground when cranking them up. I am sure you know to do this but there are people who have tried to do it with out jacking up the front end and have had torsion bars snap and they tend to go through things like body parts.
Let me know what you find out.

 

[Bear80]

Why so many changes of the CV shafts? Did he NOT put on manual hubs already??!!?? And just for broken boots, a boot kit is only like $8, why new shafts??

"When turning at full lock, which has been previously shortened by adjusting the bump stops, there are some loud popping noises." HUH??

So you guys adjusted the steering stops on the spindles out more to decrease the turning radius?? WHY?? The lift kit has no effect on steering. The poping is just the stops rubbing, go buy the nylon bushings that go on them. There is absolutly no way the CV's can bind. The inner joints can take up to 2" more wheel travel and outter joints can far exceed that.

You also do not have the t-bars adjusted to their proper level. I would assume the lift was designed with the factory rake in mind, about 1/2-3/4".

Also you should know that the fender openings are LARGER on the front than the rear. DON'T expect hub to fender lip measurements to be the same front to back. If you have CV bind then you have other issues like frame damage, or differential mounts to address.

You also need to check that the the tie rods are properly in line with each other. B-class mechanices never get this right on alignments. If they are not in line, during steering the joints will bind and make poping sounds.

 

[goschbrandon]

The popping is just the stops rubbing, go buy the nylon bushings that go on them.

Without hearing the noise, this is most likely correct, almost every Gen II 4Runner makes popping noises at full lock. For an even cheaper fix, you can simply grease the stops every couple of weeks. I'd start there to address the noise, but there may still be other issues with the suspension as Bear80 suggests.

 

[WristPin]

IIRC Downey off road offers a tacoma shaft and spindle adapter kit.

the taco shaft is longer. allows for more travel.

you probly are binding the axles due to over extention.
bear is right. you need to have manual hubs in ther

 

[Bear80]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to over extend the axles with what you got. The inner joints slide in and out to compensate as the supension cycles through it's range of motion. The inner joints reach their limits of extention at 3" past stock and then start to bind, I checked it out when I put my new upper arms on.

 

[peebles24]

Just the opposite of over extension is what I am worried about, i think the alignment shop lowered the torsion bars to far.

Quote "Why so many changes of the CV shafts? Did he NOT put on manual hubs already??!!?? And just for broken boots, a boot kit is only like $8, why new shafts?"

The shafts were popping like a worn out one does, no manual hubs, I don't know why, he has yet to wheel it.


Quote "Also you should know that the fender openings are LARGER on the front than the rear. DON'T expect hub to fender lip measurements to be the same front to back. If you have CV bind then you have other issues like frame damage, or differential mounts to address."

This is true so that means the distance between the top of the tire and the bottom of the fender should be more in the front than in the back, his is not. Front measures 8" rear measures 9 1/4". probably more rake than the 1 1/4" I originally stated.


Quote "So you guys adjusted the steering stops on the spindles out more to decrease the turning radius?? WHY??"

He did this after he bought the truck and it already had the T bars cranked all the way up and a set of 33 x 14.50's on it, major rubbing. No lift then.


Quote "You also need to check that the the tie rods are properly in line with each other."

Checked this and it looks good.


maybe this will help explain what I mean.

 

[Bear80]

Again, no way in hell you have CV angle issues. The front diff may need to come out and be checked. There just is NO way the CV's can go bad in 1yr running on the road.

The CV's are made to change angles. Think about it, as the suspension hits bumps in the road, the angles change. The angle at rest makes no difference. It's really hard to trouble shoot sounds online but there just is no way from the discription that you can have axle issues.

Here is an example of what the stock CV's are capable of:

 

[Bear80]

If he's been running auto hubs, you friend better check his brass bushings in the spindle. They usally cause a "rattle" like sound vs. poping but never the less wear due to auto hubs.

 

[peebles24]

could someone post up a pic of the front of a stock height truck sitting level please so that we can get an idea of were to set the T bars to.
I really don't want to pull his front end apart but it is looking like I am going to have to.

Thank you,

Chad P.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

If you do have to pull the front apart, there's a link to some instructions in the FAQ thread.

 

[robinhood4x4]

Without hearing the noise, this is most likely correct, almost every Gen II 4Runner makes popping noises at full lock. For an even cheaper fix, you can simply grease the stops every couple of weeks. I'd start there to address the noise, but there may still be other issues with the suspension as Bear80 suggests.

This is the problem, I'll bet a box of donuts. It's a very well documented problem for that early IFS. It's as simple as greasing the steering stops or just ignoring it.

 

[Bear80]

You're really over worrying about having the front set exactly correct.

 

[peebles24]

You're really over worrying about having the front set exactly correct.

I'm being prodded by my buddy to make sure it is set exactly correct.

 

[Bear80]

Well tell him that the hub to fender measurement with the 4" of lift should be 25" +/- 1". The stock measurement is about 21".

 

[ih8seals]

i've been watching this thread very closely because i seem to have the same kind of problem.

here is how my rig goes:

94 3.0 4WD 5spd. nothing special has been done in the front other than the previous owner changed the factory shocks to Rancho GS5145's. i've recently put Aisin manual hubs on them. the T-bars are stock, no lift. CV boots are in perfect conditon. all the steering stops are greased properly.

a.) in 2WD, when turning the steering wheel, everything is fine, even all the way from the left full to the right full. dosen't matter is on pavement or dirt, hubs locked or free. no weird nosie, no clunking when turning at corners.

b.) in 4WD Hi, Lo, when hubs are set to "free", everthing is fine.

c.) in 4WD Hi, Lo, when hubs are set to "locked", note: i did this on a low traction dirtroad and the viechle is barely moving. when turning the steering wheel either side, starting at half way through, i can hear a "LOUD" binding sound from the front, then the steering wheel gets really heavy, if i keep pushing it further, it will seize the axle. the viechle can stop on a slopey uphill with gear in nutural and withOUT parking break. if i turn the steering wheel back, the axles are becoming losen up, then the truck can slide back downhills.

chad, if you don't have manual hubs on yours, assume the hubs are always "locked".

i played with the torsion bars alittle bit yesterday afternoon, it seems getting worse when the torsion bars get cranked up.

someone has the same problem??????

 

[Bear80]

ih8seals, your problem does sound to be bad CV's. How many miles did they have on them without manual hubs?

 

[ih8seals]

ih8seals, your problem does sound to be bad CV's. How many miles did they have on them without manual hubs?

first, chad, sorry for the thread hi-jack.



as for my 4Runner, i bought here in late May with 128k miles, the PO has complete service record since the 750mile service at dealer(WTH is that, 750 miles??). anyhoo, i went throu the whole stack, i believe the CV's are still original. i put on the Aisin's myself about 3 weeks ago, 130k miles.

i'm wondering it's a steering problem or axle problem. but this is for sure, the problem is getting better when i relaxed the t-bars by 15 turns counter-clockwise from the cranked up position. that means i can turn the steering wheel more now before hearing the "BANG".

one more question, does it matter when turning the steering wheel, the "big bang" noise happens on both sides or only the side i'm turning towards? if so, i need to find a piece of dirtroad to test it out on.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

I'm with bear80 on this one, better pull the shafts and take a look.

 

[Bear80]

t-bar pre-load or ride hight has nothing to do with CV bind or steering bind on a stock or near stock setup.

also 128k with ADD is really not enough to cause the CV wear which would cause what you discribe.

also if you lowered you ride hight and it changed the occurrence of the sound. it sounds to me like steering stops. the stops are tapered on the lower arm, meaning they contact sooner when the truck is lower.