Front Drop

[hkeller]

Took the wife's LX 470 for a little off roading this weekend. Man, these things are impressive. It is totally stock, including tires and running boards and it ate up trail with ease that would have made my '72 CJ-5 - 401 think twice. We hill climbed, ran through gummy 12 inch mud, got way off camber (no real choice) and made turns some small sized SUV couldn't make. All in quite comfort. It is almost disconcerting how quite these things are on the trail, it make you over confident.

One downside, on the way out, we ran a series of mud holes that we made by water ledges on the trail that were maybe 4 feet high. As such, I had to maintain some momentum through the mud, but this put me at relatively higher than comfortable speed over the humps (hard to explain,you just had to see it). On every hump, I was topping out the front suspension.

As you can see from my sig, wife won't let go of the LX, but I am in the market for a newer LX or a GX, what is the fix for the short upward travel. Yes, I have searched, but I am not sure there really is a good fix, from what I see, without custom control arms and lots more $$. Maybe dumping the AHC and going with Bilsteins would be better. Thoughts? (forgive typos please, I can't type worth a darn).

 

[rusty_tlc]

The first thing you probably wan to do is get an ARB locker up front before you grenade the diff. You described the perfect circumstance to blow one up.

 

[2000UZJ]

Other than UCA's, slightly longer shock on the front and bumpstops to smooth the impacts out, your limited with the front end. Those nice mud holes that throw the front end up and down...go slower or go around. Dump the throttle as you crest and get back on it when the front end isn't unloaded

 

[MoJ]

tires.

 

[Layonnn]

The first thing you probably wan to do is get an ARB locker up front before you grenade the diff. You described the perfect circumstance to blow one up.

With it being a 2000 LX, he has the upgraded 4pinion diff, so much less likely to grenade than the 98-99.

 

[TheFuzz]

With it being a 2000 LX, he has the upgraded 4pinion diff, so much less likely to grenade than the 98-99.

Less likely, but still very possible, especially running his rig like that with the front end topped out. 4-pinion is better, but not bulletproof. Several people have blown them up IIRC.

 

[rusty_tlc]

The first thing you probably wan to do is get an ARB locker up front before you grenade the diff. You described the perfect circumstance to blow one up.

The second thing you want to do is read everything Spressomon every posted about wheel travel on the 100 series. That man has invested many many hours and $$$$ in getting it just right.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Less likely, but still very possible, especially running his rig like that with the front end topped out. 4-pinion is better, but not bulletproof. Several people have blown them up IIRC.

Exactly

 

[hkeller]

Other than UCA's, slightly longer shock on the front and bumpstops to smooth the impacts out, your limited with the front end. Those nice mud holes that throw the front end up and down...go slower or go around. Dump the throttle as you crest and get back on it when the front end isn't unloaded

This was a narrow trail, so going around was not an option. By the time I got to the holes, backing out was not an option either, nor was truning around. It was an off camber, uphill trail on the side of a mountain. The mud puddles were formed by water control mounds places on the trail about every 200 yards. Going up the trail was not an issue, as I could stop at the top of each mound and then apply steady power to plow through the mud hole. Going down was where I had the problem, as I had to hit the hole fast enough to not only get through it, but also climb the partially submerged mound on the far side that was holding back the water and mud.

I took the puddles just fast enough to maintain momentum, but was by no means blasting through them. I did just as you said, letting off the trottle just before I crested and then getting back on once both front wheels had traction. There was never any high speed, free spinning of the front wheels, so I wouldn't think the diff was an issue. Thoughts?

I recall reading somewhere that the ahc only controls on the downstroke and does not control front shock (hydralic ram) extension. In other words, if you were holding the ram in your hand, it would be difficult to push it together, but easy to pull it apart. Whereas, with a standard gas shock, it is quite difficult to push together and slightly less so to pull the ends apart. This is why I was thinking a switch to shocks would help contol the topping out. Thoughts?

 

[hkeller]

tires.

How would tires have helped with the front suspension topping out? Thanks,

 

[AimCOtaco]

How would tires have helped with the front suspension topping out? Thanks,

Mud appropriate tires would require a lot less momentum and throttle when driving in Mud. i.e. lower speeds and better control for drive-train preservation.

 

[pfran42]

Don't get over-confident about having a 4 pinion front diff. Mine exploded on it's 4th or 5th time climbing a relatively easy hill that had had some bumps on it. About all you can do is what Nick said (UCA's, aftermarket shocks, tires and locker). As of today, no one has a solution on the market for getting the front travel to mirror the rear on an IFS 100.

 

[hkeller]

Thanks for all the input. I don't think I am willing to do new UCA's and a locker, I just don't wheel enough to justify it. Although I'd like to.

pfran42: Ten-four on the tires; makes sense.

Anyone know if the 120 series is any better, maybe with the KDSS? I have to replace my 1996 Grand Cherokee and thinking about a 100 or a 120. I like the 100, but don't really need the extra room. If the 120 avoids the front diff issue and has a bit more travel up front, maybe that is the way I should go.

Yes, I understand the risk of asking about a 120 on a 100 forum and don't mean to start any fights. Just wanted any reasonable opinions on costs and benefits of each.

 

[pfran42]

Thanks for all the input. I don't think I am willing to do new UCA's and a locker, I just don't wheel enough to justify it. Although I'd like to.

pfran42: Ten-four on the tires; makes sense.

Anyone know if the 120 series is any better, maybe with the KDSS? I have to replace my 1996 Grand Cherokee and thinking about a 100 or a 120. I like the 100, but don't really need the extra room. If the 120 avoids the front diff issue and has a bit more travel up front, maybe that is the way I should go.

Yes, I understand the risk of asking about a 120 on a 100 forum and don't mean to start any fights. Just wanted any reasonable opinions on costs and benefits of each.

I own both. When driving one, I always see fairly attractive MILFs driving the same vehicle and dudes at stop lights sometimes peer in on mine to see if I myself am a MILF. When driving the other, I mainly see cool lookin' dudes that appear to have their s*#t together in the same vehicle. Guess which vehicle is which.

 

[wildsmith]

The 120 is a lighter duty vehicle than a 100 especially in the diff department. The 120 rear diff is equivalent to the 100 series front diff and the 120 front diff is even smaller. Seems 120's have the same basic problem in the rear as 100's have in the front - too much stick and they pop. From casual observation of those I know it doesn't look like front end travel is any better either.

 

[rusty_tlc]

This may be blasphemy but I say build the Cherokee. You can upgrade the axles, add long arm suspension, re-gear the t-case and add lockers for less than even a high mileage 100 series is going to run. Those trucks are cheap and easy to build, have a ton of aftermarket support, a great power to weight ratio, and when you break the unibody you can un-bolt all the expensive stuff and find a cheap donor chassis to put it on.

Just something to consider.

 

[TeCKis300]

What settings was ride control (shock comfort/sport) and height set to? These setting are applicable when off roading as well. Being in high mode will give you more clearance, but will also give you more compression travel (at the expense of droop travel). If you find you are bottoming the suspension, you can also stiffen the shock settings towards sport. The will give it more compression dampening, making it less likely to bottom out. Adjustability is the beauty of AHC.

 

[hkeller]

What settings was ride control (shock comfort/sport) and height set to? These setting are applicable when off roading as well. Being in high mode will give you more clearance, but will also give you more compression travel (at the expense of droop travel). If you find you are bottoming the suspension, you can also stiffen the shock settings towards sport. The will give it more compression dampening, making it less likely to bottom out. Adjustability is the beauty of AHC.

I was in high mode, AHC comfort setting. I had it in sport setting, but the ride on the higher speed sections of the trail was beating us up. You might be on to something, I wonder whether I would have topped out the front suspension, had I been in sport mode. Does sport mode stiffen just compression, or also extension?

 

[hkeller]

This may be blasphemy but I say build the Cherokee. You can upgrade the axles, add long arm suspension, re-gear the t-case and add lockers for less than even a high mileage 100 series is going to run. Those trucks are cheap and easy to build, have a ton of aftermarket support, a great power to weight ratio, and when you break the unibody you can un-bolt all the expensive stuff and find a cheap donor chassis to put it on.

Just something to consider.

Grand Cherokee has strong engine, but probably needs, trans, tires, alingment (might be unibody related), heater core (big $$), radio, headliner, etc. It would make a good fun basher trail rig for something. It has the dana 44 rear and, I think, LS, but it getting touch as a daily driver with clients, etc.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Grand Cherokee has strong engine, but probably needs, trans, tires, alingment (might be unibody related), heater core (big $$), radio, headliner, etc. It would make a good fun basher trail rig for something. It has the dana 44 rear and, I think, LS, but it getting touch as a daily driver with clients, etc.

Agreed a 100 would be a better DD if you have clients in your truck. Be forewarned the cheapest part of owning a Land cruiser is buying it.
It took me buying three to figure that out.