Front Differential Explosion

[sleeoffroad]

I think it is a combination of things. The ARB carrier is stronger than stock and it will be less likely to deflect. Also, you could have damaged the ring gear sometime in the past and this was just the rock that did you in. I think the IFS causes you to lift tires and spin them pretty easily. I still think it is the shock loads that happen when the tire grabs traction again that causes the breakage or damage.

So when you have a ARB and you use it a lot you decrease the situations where this happened.

I think R&P ratio's are irrelvant. I broke a CV and front diff at the same time in a diff that had a ARB fitted. The breakage happened due to the situation I mentoned above. That was 4.88 gears.

My wife broke a 4.30 front diff on a ice road pulling a snow plow out. In that case I believe the traction control was the culprit. The turbo spooled up certainly did not help

4.30 gears are only available from Toyota and are super expensive. Not much less that buying the whole diff.

I would try and find a used set of 4.30's and put in an ARB. However as mentioned this is the time to regear, but you pocket book is going to hurt a little more since you have to do the rear as well,

 

[hoser]

Yup, my pocket book is still hurting from last year.

Here's some tips I received from Darren at ATS4x4 when doing the ARB and regear:

"It is essential the ARB carrier is checked for runout, to ensure the pattern for the crownwheel is as good as it can be 360 deg, not one spot, or 3, but 360 deg.We work on less than 8 thou run out, most ARB carriers seem to be 12-20 thou out, but we have had one which was 54 thou out.

The ARB carrier is a lot stronger than the standard carrier, which has a big hole where the side gears go in, and flexes easily in comparison to the ARB carrier, and adding the ARB carrier alone makes the diff stronger.

The other mod we do, is machine a solid pinion spacer, which is fiddly and takes a bit of time but makes a big difference to the diff with the ARB carrier installed.

We always fit new quality bearings, because once the mods are done, you don't want to be pulling the diff apart again any time soon."


Christo, has the crush sleeve been known to deform and cause increased tolerance between the R&P maybe aiding in it's demise?

Rohitash, yes, take my used set of 4.3's, I'll be down in San Jose on Saturday morning if you want to meet up.

 

[pokie1313]

So, do Tundras have this problem too? I would think there might be a family resemblance there, with the IFS axle and V8 torque. I did a front diff search on the trucks page, and got no gory smashed pumpkins back. How are they different?

 

[rohitash]

Thanks guys for all the tips.

I'll probably do what Jay and Amando did and use the 4.3 gears and add an ARB locker. Don't want to re-gear right cause 90% of the time I'll be using my stock tires on the road. Might think about a turbo/supercharger in the future.

Hoser, I sent you a PM and email.

 

[SWUtah]

The 4 pinion complete set up from Toyota is the less costly option. The 4 pinion from Toyota takes the place of an ARB.

If your R&P is still good you could find a used 4 pinion carrier and install it.

I have not read about anyone having a problem with the later model 4 pinion carrier. Well Slee but he explained why that might of broken any diff.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Hoser--Very cool. I'll buy you a beer sometime.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I have not read about anyone having a problem with the later model 4 pinion carrier. Well Slee but he explained why that might of broken any diff.

I wiped out a 4-pinion front diff.

 

[SWUtah]

I wiped out a 4-pinion front diff.

How about some more information on the vehicle. Number of miles, year, what you were doing when it broke, etc.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

How about some more information on the vehicle. Number of miles, year, what you were doing when it broke, etc.

It's Shottz-He was posing on a rock somewhere beside the road with his Jeep friends in reverent attendence as he described the N74 shock mod for the 99th time.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

It's Shottz-He was posing on a rock somewhere beside the road with his Jeep friends in reverent attendence as he described the N74 shock mod for the 99th time.

I was not! No lying here Drew!

I was going downhill towards Mama's Pizza. I hit a construction zone where the road turned to dirt and 25MPH. I hit a pothole and my IFS shuddered, TRAC kicked in and when I hit the brakes the rear end flew toward the sky because the L-shocks travelled so far. That's when it happened. BANG.

 

[Snook]

Shotts,

I was not! No lying here Drew!

I was going downhill towards Mama's Pizza. I hit a construction zone where the road turned to dirt and 25MPH. I hit a pothole and my IFS shuddered, TRAC kicked in and when I hit the brakes the rear end flew toward the sky because the L-shocks travelled so far. That's when it happened. BANG.

The real question for us to know when and what: When did that happened and did you pick up your Mama's pizza, piping hot?

Regards,

 

[sigep0359]

Just buy an FJ60 and you won't have to worry about it.....

 

[Texasoil]

If you were 'rocking it' by shifting from F to R etc without first dropping RPM's to idle--you slammed the gears and shafts back and forth with tremendous force and stuff broke. On the other hand, if the F-R-F shifts were done with throttle closed, near idle RPM, it should not have broken. The drive-line is made for smooth application of torque, not slam shifts.

The conditions were MILD, EASY. NO WAY tire grip could have caused the damage.

 

[autarch]

Yikes...

gentlemen, I'm not trying to hijack the thread - this is more to frame my question.

I've owned 4x4s of one sort or another for most of my adult life. I just recently donated the '97 cherokee to my 16-year-old as his first car. The old Bronco is gone and the Explorer was traded to get a Honday pilot for the day-to-day commute.

My Silverado is a second car that rarely gets used and is almost paid off. I decided to get another 4x4 because I need one to get where I camp and hike most of the time, plus I like to romp. My brother is one of those sold-my-soul-to-Land-Rover guys and nothing can convince him that they aren't the best on the planet.

After doing a lot of reading (you wouldn't believe how many google searches wind up sending you to ih8mud) I had been sold on the 100-series TLC. It seemed like the best balance of tow-capacity, off-road capability and cushy features.

This thread has me nervous, to say the least. There were 3 TLCs for sale in my zip code for under $25k with low mileage (2000-2002) and I almost jumped.

I'll be perfectly honest, in a lot of vehicles I've owned, I've been in situations where the front tire spins in the air and then grabs and I've never had an issue. If I hadn't read this thread, I would probably have done the same with the 100. Now, 90% of the things I've owned have been SFA and that's probably why I've never really paid attention to it.

So, I guess I have some questions....

1. Other than ARB lockers, is there a real, proven solution to the front differential issue?
2. Would a SFA swap necessarily fix the issue, or is it just less vulnerable?
3. I read about Slee's SFA project - it was astounding. But is anyone (or any off-road shops) doing a common job of this, or are all of them extreme, custom, one-offs?
4. Is the SFA swap a reliable, long-term modification, or is this one of those things you do that makes a vehicle perform much better than intended, but it probably won't last long? I really plan to upkeep the 4x4 I purchase for a long time and replace what wears... but I don't want to drive a time bomb.
5. Do all other alternatives have their own Achilles heel? I don't even want to get into Land Rovers... I almost won't get one because my brother thinks they are a gift from God. But Rubincons, Unimogs, Rovers and even older cruisers have their own oddball weaknesses I assume? Otherwise, you'd all be driving those instead.

Sorry for the long post. I hope you understand that I want a reliable, rugged, long-term vehicle. If I'm to drop $25k on the vehicle, another $5-$10k for mods, I'll feel like an idiot if the front diff breaks in an otherwise unremarkable situation. Heck, I'd do the SFA swap if I thought it was a real solution, but I don't see any posts from people that have had them for very long? (I admit, I may have missed them)

My wife loves off-roading and she is extremely practical. She'll be very supportive if I get a good vehicle and she'll be very hesitant if I tell her about the front diff.

So, what can you guys suggest?

(oh yeah, I'm a newbie here, so greetings to all...)

 

[spressomon]

gentlemen, I'm not trying to hijack the thread - this is more to frame my question.

I've owned 4x4s of one sort or another for most of my adult life. I just recently donated the '97 cherokee to my 16-year-old as his first car. The old Bronco is gone and the Explorer was traded to get a Honday pilot for the day-to-day commute.

My Silverado is a second car that rarely gets used and is almost paid off. I decided to get another 4x4 because I need one to get where I camp and hike most of the time, plus I like to romp. My brother is one of those sold-my-soul-to-Land-Rover guys and nothing can convince him that they aren't the best on the planet.

After doing a lot of reading (you wouldn't believe how many google searches wind up sending you to ih8mud) I had been sold on the 100-series TLC. It seemed like the best balance of tow-capacity, off-road capability and cushy features.

This thread has me nervous, to say the least. There were 3 TLCs for sale in my zip code for under $25k with low mileage (2000-2002) and I almost jumped.

I'll be perfectly honest, in a lot of vehicles I've owned, I've been in situations where the front tire spins in the air and then grabs and I've never had an issue. If I hadn't read this thread, I would probably have done the same with the 100. Now, 90% of the things I've owned have been SFA and that's probably why I've never really paid attention to it.

So, I guess I have some questions....

1. Other than ARB lockers, is there a real, proven solution to the front differential issue? No.
2. Would a SFA swap necessarily fix the issue, or is it just less vulnerable?
3. I read about Slee's SFA project - it was astounding. But is anyone (or any off-road shops) doing a common job of this, or are all of them extreme, custom, one-offs? It is a complicated and expensive mod. Ideally you'll need to upgrade the rear axle too so that you retain the same bolt pattern for wheels. This "conversion" ain't for the faint of heart or wallet.
4. Is the SFA swap a reliable, long-term modification, or is this one of those things you do that makes a vehicle perform much better than intended, but it probably won't last long? I really plan to upkeep the 4x4 I purchase for a long time and replace what wears... but I don't want to drive a time bomb.
5. Do all other alternatives have their own Achilles heel? I don't even want to get into Land Rovers... I almost won't get one because my brother thinks they are a gift from God. But Rubincons, Unimogs, Rovers and even older cruisers have their own oddball weaknesses I assume? Otherwise, you'd all be driving those instead.

Sorry for the long post. I hope you understand that I want a reliable, rugged, long-term vehicle. If I'm to drop $25k on the vehicle, another $5-$10k for mods, I'll feel like an idiot if the front diff breaks in an otherwise unremarkable situation. Heck, I'd do the SFA swap if I thought it was a real solution, but I don't see any posts from people that have had them for very long? (I admit, I may have missed them)

My wife loves off-roading and she is extremely practical. She'll be very supportive if I get a good vehicle and she'll be very hesitant if I tell her about the front diff.

So, what can you guys suggest?

(oh yeah, I'm a newbie here, so greetings to all...)

Last: With a properly set-up ARB front locker (and 4.88's if you're going to start adding bumpers, winch, drawers, 33" or 35", trailer towing, etc.) you will end up with a very reliable front diff assembly. Having said that good off-road driving skills go along way to reducing un-needed stresses on drivelines and critical parts and components. There are a few of us that have "tested" this set-up without issue. I can even attest to unintentionally abusing (spinning the front wheels in loose deep shale on a very steep off-camber slope with the AT Horizon in tow) mine a few weeks ago before succumbing to using the winch.

What little sacrifice you may find related to setting up the front diff is generally more than off-set by the incredible overhaul durability, reliability and comfort of a very versatile off-road/overlanding type rig: The 100 Series!

You didn't state your primary off-road use. IMO the 100-series excels at overlanding style off-roading. Crawling is just not it's forte although you'll be able to take it down sections of Class IV trails without issue assuming you have sliders, bumpers and driving skill and/or good spotters .

You will NOT regret your decision as long as you lay out a strategic mod plan!

And welcome!

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Keep in mind, you're hearing about a concentrated collection of information regarding the front diff. There are thousands and thousands of these trucks out there that have not and will not ever have an issue.

 

[spressomon]

Keep in mind, you're hearing about a concentrated collection of information regarding the front diff. There are thousands and thousands of these trucks out there that have not and will not ever have an issue.

Hmmm...I would say "...may not have an issue". I think it is important to relay what we DO know about certain weaknesses. It allows for better informed decisions regardless of what that decision might be by the individual owner. For where and how I use my rig it wasn't a question. Sorta like buying insurance. Even though most states only require Liability insurance most of us go one step further and carry full coverage insurance. And of these folks maybe they elected to buy full coverage not because they have ever needed or utilized that full coverage before but for peace of mind knowing they have reduced the financial risk of a potential event.

 

[autarch]

"You didn't state your primary off-road use"

Sorry, should have thought of that. I rarely do any white-knuckle stuff. I've gone on those trips where you have guys on your bumper to counterbalance to keep from rolling, but that's rare.

Primarily it's more expedition use. We start off on fire roads up north (Mogollom Rim, Flagstaff, White Mountains, etc...) then find some remote areas for base camp. From there we usually look for places to explore. Some minor water crossings, some climbing and the occasional rough trails that turn out to be quad-sized after you're already halfway up them.

None of it is Rubicon, but I do end up rocking and nursing the front end through ruts and over fallen trees... the spinning tire and sudden traction scenario comes up pretty often, especially if there's mud.

I've read through a lot of the other posts. I'm still on the fence, but if I understand correctly, 4.88 rear gears, 33", ARB should minimize the risk. And I do agree, there are a lot of other benefits that offset this risk. Towing (V8) is one of them. The luxury on-road is another.

Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen.. I'll continue to monitor these posts.

(If any of you are ever planning some jaunts in AZ, I'd love to tag along and get a real feel for a 100-series off road.)

 

[spressomon]

"You didn't state your primary off-road use"

Sorry, should have thought of that. I rarely do any white-knuckle stuff. I've gone on those trips where you have guys on your bumper to counterbalance to keep from rolling, but that's rare.

Primarily it's more expedition use. We start off on fire roads up north (Mogollom Rim, Flagstaff, White Mountains, etc...) then find some remote areas for base camp. From there we usually look for places to explore. Some minor water crossings, some climbing and the occasional rough trails that turn out to be quad-sized after you're already halfway up them.

None of it is Rubicon, but I do end up rocking and nursing the front end through ruts and over fallen trees... the spinning tire and sudden traction scenario comes up pretty often, especially if there's mud.

I've read through a lot of the other posts. I'm still on the fence, but if I understand correctly, 4.88 rear gears, 33", ARB should minimize the risk. And I do agree, there are a lot of other benefits that offset this risk. Towing (V8) is one of them. The luxury on-road is another.

Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen.. I'll continue to monitor these posts.

(If any of you are ever planning some jaunts in AZ, I'd love to tag along and get a real feel for a 100-series off road.)

Sorry...hyjack: Apart of the AT Hurricane LakeFest earlier this summer we were able to spend some time in the White Mountains and also, post event, along with a couple others did the Mogollon Rim. This was our first foray into AZ. Great places to explore!

 

[Campfire]

Welcome aboard and I was in the same spot when I bought mine and all this happened. I don't know if you read all the posts, but again I was "flogging" this poor 100 trying to get out like I had done in the past to my 60 series and my Pathfinder. They didn't have a V-8 like this rig and the power. Since replacing the front diff with the 4 pinion which is standard from 2000 on up, I haven't had any problems with the front end. (except driving off an embankment and bending things)
Rest easy knowing that if you buy a 2000 on up and drive it like it was intended, you should have no problems.

Happy wheeling..

....
After doing a lot of reading (you wouldn't believe how many google searches wind up sending you to ih8mud) I had been sold on the 100-series TLC. It seemed like the best balance of tow-capacity, off-road capability and cushy features.

This thread has me nervous, to say the least. There were 3 TLCs for sale in my zip code for under $25k with low mileage (2000-2002) and I almost jumped.

I'll be perfectly honest, in a lot of vehicles I've owned, I've been in situations where the front tire spins in the air and then grabs and I've never had an issue. If I hadn't read this thread, I would probably have done the same with the 100. Now, 90% of the things I've owned have been SFA and that's probably why I've never really paid attention to it.

So, I guess I have some questions....

QUOTE]