Front Coil Overs on a 100 series? Possible?

[Nickslexi]

Looking at the front suspenion of the 100 series and how robust the upper shock mount is, got me thinking that we could run coil-overs up front... basically, the AHC is a hydraulic version of a coil over... what do you all think?

I'd especally like to hear from Christo or the other vendors/experts what they think of this idea... any reason why it wouldnt work?

 

[paflytyer]

What would the gain be? I don't think it would change anything, so I see no reason for anyone to do it.

 

[uzj100]

Would you take out the torsion bars? This is interesting.

 

[AimCOtaco]

The Russians did it. There is a thread around here somewhere about all the challenges, pros, and cons..

EDIT:
Here, I searched for you and here are a couple:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-c...on-bars-4.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/666146-why-no-icon-suspension-100s.html

 

[marshotel]

This guy did it (in Russia).

https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/373778-cranking-torsion-bars-3.html

I think coil overs enjoy better damping characteristics (less resonance) and are better-suited to rough roads at high speeds. This would also allow the user to play with different spring weights and rates, which is difficult with the torsion bars.

In lots of places it's nice to be able to drive 70 mph on a washed-out heavily-potholed road, and coilovers are probably better for that application.

For slow speed driving through rocks and mud I don't think there is any advantage.

I think the dynamic performance of the coilover setup could be better at high speeds, but in terms of geometry and articulation they would offer no real advantage over the torsion bars.

Did Tamerlan ever send his kit to pfran or anybody else for testing?

 

[petrotk40]

the issue with coilovers has always been that the shock mounts were never meant to handle the full weight of the truck. If you beef up those mounts, it's certainly possible.

 

[2000UZJ]

I've talked with Tamerlan over Skype many times before, he wanted to get a kit over in the US to test. I offered my truck, as I am always looking for more ways to improve the front end. I'll get in contact with him and see if I can't get this project back on track.

 

[bamabrock]

What would the gain be? I don't think it would change anything, so I see no reason for anyone to do it.

better ride and handling for one.

 

[Nickslexi]

I agree that the shock mounts werent designed for coilovers, however, I think they could eaily handle the load.... take a good look at them and you will see that they are very well built and signifcanlty welded to the frame.

They would offer a better ride, adjustability and probably wiegh less overall. Afterall... Toyota is full coilover on all their 4x4 rigs, FJC, 200 series etc., so they must believe in the system also.

 

[bamabrock]

could the 200 series front components work on a 100? A-arms, upper coil mount etc.

 

[2000UZJ]

could the 200 series front components work on a 100? A-arms, upper coil mount etc.

You could run the 200 Series shocks upfront with a custom adapter for the upper shock mount, that's what the Russians did. I will Skype Tamberlan tonight and see if I can't get a pair shipped. I am concerened about the travel, the 200 Series has 9" of wheel travel upfront, which means the 100 Series upper A-arm, CV and LCA will have to travel an additional 2.5" over stock. I have a feeling it's not the uppers or the lowers that cause the limited travel, I feel that the torsion bars take away a lot of potential, even in stock form with the lower shock mount unbolted, the front end can droop another 2-3" before the UCA comes in contact with the shock body. I haven't exactly checked if there is any binding, but the front end did spin freely at full droop.

Here is the install guide, shows some good pictures. I looked on their site and it looks like the coil-over conversion is $113USD. Seems a bit...cheap. I could be wrong though.

http://offroad-group.com/index.php?...emyh_amortizacionnyh__stoek_na_TLC100&did=211


edit: I sent Alex an email a minute ago, I will let you know what happens.

 

[paflytyer]

better ride and handling for one.

On our 100's? Or, just in general? And, ^^ that's actually two :whoops:

 

[Fitzgerald]

You could run the 200 Series shocks upfront, that's what the Russians did. I will Skype Tamberlan tonight and see if I can't get a pair shipped.

Here is the install guide, shows some good pictures.

http://offroad-group.com/index.php?...emyh_amortizacionnyh__stoek_na_TLC100&did=211


edit: I sent Alex an email a minute ago, I will let you know what happens.

Wow, that looks promising.

FYI, "Google Translate" does a good job if the pictures need clarification.

 

[2000UZJ]

On our 100's? Or, just in general?

In general, torsion bars are very quick to unload while wheeling. If you have ever done a steep climb over loose rocks you know exactly what I mean. If you are climbing up a hill, drive up on a small rock and it moves, the front end will quickly unload and create a jolt/bang. Very similar when going over large speed bumps with not enough droop. Coil overs generally reduce that, and allow for a more predictable ride. I am no professional, but I have never liked the torsion bars since they unload so quickly and make for a very rough, bouncy ride when going up a steep climb with loose rocks that bounce the front end.

 

[bamabrock]

You could run the 200 Series shocks upfront with a custom adapter for the upper shock mount, that's what the Russians did. I will Skype Tamberlan tonight and see if I can't get a pair shipped. I am concerened about the travel, the 200 Series has 9" of wheel travel upfront, which means the 100 Series upper A-arm, CV and LCA will have to travel an additional 2.5" over stock. I have a feeling it's not the uppers or the lowers that cause the limited travel, I feel that the torsion bars take away a lot of potential, even in stock form with the lower shock mount unbolted, the front end can droop another 2-3" before the UCA comes in contact with the shock body. I haven't exactly checked if there is any binding, but the front end did spin freely at full droop.

Here is the install guide, shows some good pictures. I looked on their site and it looks like the coil-over conversion is $113USD. Seems a bit...cheap. I could be wrong though.

http://offroad-group.com/index.php?...emyh_amortizacionnyh__stoek_na_TLC100&did=211


edit: I sent Alex an email a minute ago, I will let you know what happens.

Interesting. The only custom piece appears to be that upper mount conversion plate and a extension to the threaded body up top. they are using aftermarket coils.

 

[bamabrock]

On our 100's? Or, just in general?

in general. It is a huge step up in ride, handling and performance.

Go ride in a GMT800 chevrolet truck (99-06) with torsion bar front IFS and then ride in a similar equipment GMT900 truck (07-current) with coilover IFS and there is a huge difference IMO. Torsion bars feel like a swaying boat to me while the coilover fronts are more precise and has significantly less sway. You notice it in a 6k lb truck. I point those out as an example but Ford, Dodge, Toyota, GM etc have all gotten rid of torsion bars except GM in its HD trucks.

 

[2000UZJ]

Interesting. The only custom piece appears to be that upper mount conversion plate and a extension to the threaded body up top. they are using aftermarket coils.

I would bet you could find some aftermarket 200 Series shocks, fab up a mounting plate and bolt it in. It honestly does not look complicated. I wonder why nobody has done this yet?

 

[OregonLC]

So how would this improve ride/handling on the 100? The only change would be spring rate, right? We're already similar to a coilover in that we can set the buoyancy point (although not the preload). Is the thought that there's better response in a more compact system?

Regarding travel, unless you're talking retrofitting arms too this would only aggravate the UCA-to-shock clearance problem.

Am I missing something other than the cool/unique factor of a coil spring?

Edit: Could a coilover/mount solution be made similar to a McPherson setup where the UCA's go away?

 

[2000UZJ]

I just saw ACC Toyota has a set of Tundra front coil overs. Can anybody confirm they are the same in terms of dimensions and length? That may allow me to go over and see what all is involved.

 

[hoser]

in general. It is a huge step up in ride, handling and performance.

I just wanted to point out that many Porsches use torsion bars.... and so do Formula One cars. Coil springs are easier to swap out, have many more choices... including progressive rate but as far as advantages on an IFS, I don't think it's much different. Actually, the torsion is said to be more durable than coils. T-bar vs coils, it's more about packaging than anything.