free tbi 350! but now i need help...

[Nemesis Gnat]

so i need someone to tell me if im just super susceptable to suggestion, or if this seems like a good combo...

-383 stroker kit (i still need advice on this part...)
-either a Edelbrock 2102 or Comp 12-249-4 cam
-1.6 ratio roller tip rockers (and springs?)
-and a good rebuild kit (suggestions?)
what am i missing?

and this is into an 87 tbi 350 from a suburban that is in need of a rebuild

and sorry for the 2 posts one right after the other... im a lil bit excited

 

[Elbert]

My advice all along has been to run a stock configuration. While its fun to have plenty of excess power think about how you drive the LC and how you are going to use it. Also think about how the truck stops and handles the road. I would not spend big bucks on rebuilding a TBI 350. You might consider a GM crate TBI 350 which is a long block new engine...you would need the intake and fuel setup + all the brackets etc.

The more extreme you go with the engine mechanicals the harder its going to be to get the truck to idle and run right under the TBI fuel injection. Yes you can install a stroker kit and performance camshaft...etc but will you really be able to make use of that, and what will it take to get it to run right?
You cannot program a 1987 ECM in real time like you can with the new ECMs.... you have to buy a custom chip. These custom chips are made to account for specific camshaft profiles and performance options.

You'll save yourself a lot of headache and $$ by using a stock setup. Its true that you can do all kind of things to most any engine, but in the end how much money did it cost and how much expertise and time did it take, and is the end result a vehicle that you want to take off in the middle of nowhere driving.

Don't get stuck with an engine combination that does not fit your needs. and understand what it takes to get one of these things to run right! Problems with stock fuel injection can be repaired by the local mechanic.... problems with custom chips and high performance modifications would be your problem.

Engines are like a team...its take all members of the team to contribute to the end result. So... the heads, the crankshaft, the intake, the compressions (pistons) and fuel system all have to work together to run right...you get one of those out of whack and you either gained nothing for your money or you have problems with your expected performance.

Just my view... you would have a lot of fun with a stock TBI 350 and have far fewer problems with maintence and drivability issues, than you would with running a hot-rodded version of a TBI 350.

In my view I would not run the stroker kit on the TBI 350, I would find a camshaft that the manufacture certifies that runs with a TBI 350 or I would run a stock type cam. TBI engines are generally bullit-proof in stock configuration.

As in any public forum you'll read a full spectrum of views and ideas. You may want to research this a little more and make sure to ask any local guys around your location what's their experince. I just think a stock TBI setup would save you some serious $$, and you would benefit from it not only in dollars but ease of setup, ease of maintence, and drivability.

 

[lehiguy]

Elbert's right about the simplicity part of keeping it stock. There are endless choices and each one has a price tag attached. If that truck is a '97, go get it. SBCs are the cheapest rebuild on the planet, so don't be too afraid of that. Freshen up the motor, stick it in your Cruiser, and if a year from now you think it needs more beans then you will have at the very least a good bottom end on which to build.

 

[Nemesis Gnat]

ya, thats good advice... i get excited easily and often need someone to get me back into reality

so in more conversations it looks like ill need to replace atleast the rings and valve seats...

i would like to replace the cam still... does the suggestion of either of those cams from the previous post along with new lifters and the 1.6 ratio rockers seem good? valve springs?

i only add the rockers into the equation cause it seems like a cost effective upgrade, and i add the lifters cause if the valve train is worn on this bad boy (which is seems like it might be from descriptions), i may as well replace um eh?

or am i still not quite all the way back into reality here?

and in a rebuild kit... im looking for all gaskets and seals, crank and rod bearings, cam bearings, rings... what else? valve seats?

something like this perchance? Federal Mogul MK6038A-000 - Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits - summitracing.com

 

[lehiguy]

ya, thats good advice... i get excited easily and often need someone to get me back into reality

so in more conversations it looks like ill need to replace atleast the rings and valve seats...

i would like to replace the cam still... does the suggestion of either of those cams from the previous post along with new lifters and the 1.6 ratio rockers seem good? valve springs?

i only add the rockers into the equation cause it seems like a cost effective upgrade, and i add the lifters cause if the valve train is worn on this bad boy (which is seems like it might be from descriptions), i may as well replace um eh?

or am i still not quite all the way back into reality here?

and in a rebuild kit... im looking for all gaskets and seals, crank and rod bearings, cam bearings, rings... what else? valve seats?

something like this perchance? Federal Mogul MK6038A-000 - Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits - summitracing.com

Usually a machinist can get you the best deal on the parts. And since they are doing the machining and they know what your particular engine needs, I think that's the way to go. If the cam is worn, a non-roller cam with lifters is only around $100. Get a decent timing set, stockers are garbage. If you do anything to that engine, you will have to do it all. A larger cam will make for mild improvements because the heads and intake are restrictive. The valve springs are ok for your lift, duration, and RPM capacity. Beyond that, they won't work. Like I said, If you're going to do one thing, you have to do them all. So leave it alone, or do heads, (replace them, they will never flow well) cam and intake and get a custom chip for your computer. As for your EFI stuff, make sure you have the spark control and knock sensor. You might have to get a custom chip anyway to get rid of the EGR and the vehicle speed sensor or VSS. I'm not certain on that, maybe others can clarify. There is a VSS signal generator available through Downey (I think) that goes on your speedo cable, but most custom chips don't even use it.

 

[Elbert]

Go to the advance adapters web site, buy their LC swap booklet, Call up Downy and buy their LC swap booklet. Do some reading on fuel injections setups. Big difference between TBI, Vortec, and TPI engines as far as fuel control and electronics. Uderstand the limitations of a 1987 ECM and so called high performance chips in relation to a TRUCK TBI 350. Ponder what you know about mechanics, what you will have to pay someone else to do, and if it breaks who will fix it, think about what anyone knows in your area about custom tuned ECM chips and will the automotive scanner work with the chip. You may know that custom chips are one shot deals...they only work for certain narrow focuses setups, if it runs like crap...you get to buy another chip and another...etc.

Go ride in pickup that has a TBI 350 and see what you think about the power, and consider that the LC weighs less. The simpler you stay with your build the better off you will be. If you buy a used engine with a lot of miles you might as well cart it down to the local machine shop for a rebuild.

Consider buying a GM target 350 engine (old school) for about $1200 if you have the $$ and run something like an eldebrock intake with a holley 600 or so CFM carb and a HEI distirbutor.

If you want to run Fuel Injection...stay stock with the TBI 350, consider boring the block 30 over based on machine shop reccomendation, replace cam with stock type, have the heads worked, have new cam bearings and all the crank bearing replaced, install new oil pump and other various gaskets (fel pro), buy new timing gear and chain, buy new water pump, new belts and hoses, run the serptine belt system of your donar vehicle, install new plug wires, setup new electronic fuel pump with appropriate GM fuel filter like you find on a 92 GM 1500 pickup, be safe with the fuel line setup.

The other part of this I've not seen discussed here is....What transmission do you plan to use and what about mating to the stock LC transfter case. Read up on the downy and Mark's adapter conversion bellhousings, read up on the adapters to use a GM auto trans with stock LC transfer case.

Consider you will need a freind or employ someone with welding and fabrication skills. Also consider that you have some very close tolerences on the front side of the engine in relation to the radiator with a Mark's kit, but you don't have to screw with the driveshafts.

Get the two booklets I suggested....read my thread and others on the forum about V-8 engine swaps. Don't dive into this too quickly without understanding where you want to go. I was looking to get a TBI 350 for my swap and I cam across a Vortec 350... I would have saved at least a $1,000 or more by going with the TBI. Don't think these are plug and play swaps...allthough I think a TBI would be as close as you can get, since those engines are not picky about the exhaust and some models don't have a smog pump and only one 02 sensor, and the electronics don't care if you have a catalytic converter or not, or if you run dual exhaust or not. There is a lot research that you need to do, unless these things are "old hat" for you.

 

[sixty]

My guess is the engine only needs valve seals, very common for tbi350's.

Take a look at my build thread in the HC section. I have a performance stroker TBI in my 60. There is alot of performance information out there for TBI and guys making close to 500hp with it. TBI is a very simple and reliable system. With an EBL modified ECM you can tune in real time and it even does some learning for you. Checkout the thirdgen.org TBI forums. Its the best place for TBI performance info.

 

[Nemesis Gnat]

so it seems like the biggest problem ive run into so far is that there are way too many options to think about with a sbc

i gotta do some thinkin... whats a fair price to have someone evaluate the motor to see what IT NEEDS versus what I WANT?

 

[paulwolf350]

whats a fair price to have someone evaluate the motor to see what IT NEEDS versus what I WANT?

you really shouldnt need more than a head tidy up to get you going again, maybe some rings and bearings. I wouldnt waste the money going to a 383 with a tbi, there are better options out there if you want that much power. A tidied up 350 TBI should have enough power for your cruiser.

Paul

 

[ToyotaDon]

If the engine burns oil (blue smoke out the tailpipe) all the time, then you may need to replace the rings.

My guess is the engine only needs valve seals, very common for tbi350's.

If it just gets a "puff" of smoke in the mornings or after sitting, then the valve stem seals would be the culprit. These can be replaced without removing the heads, by using a compression or leakdown tester to pressurize each cylinder as the valve springs are removed for seal replacement.

 

[Nemesis Gnat]

tragedy...

after alll of this, the guy goes to check on the suburban, and its gone...

it was sitting in his high school parking lot for a while, and he assumed it was gonna be there, but its not, so hes gotta try to find out if it still exists...

and im gonna go cry now

 

[paulwolf350]

Dude, you might need to redneck up a bit, haul the sheet home immediately, even if you dont need it .................................

sorry for poking fun, hope you find your transplant, look at the photos of my yard I am plenty redneck


Paul

 

[Nemesis Gnat]

o ima redneck it up fer sure

but ya... the suburban is gone for some reason...

so thanks a ton for all the help everybody, this thread has been priceless for all the info its givin me...

ill be lookin into more swap options now, i aint givin up yet

 

[CRAWLTOY]

where does the brake booster hook up to the tbi 350???