sleeoffroad
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Flexy Coils and Mathematical Theory for Review
- Thread starter Delancy
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- Thread starter
- #22
I claimed nothing to contrary.
The numbers do mean something, because it's very clear what the intentions were before I ordered and that's not what I got.
How else, besides removing the dead rungs to lower therefore leaving me with a normal coil I could've bought in the US, am I to formulate what I'd need to replace?
Considering I'm stupid, it's the only way I could see.
Again, the same ignorance begs to question the front end, since the arms are for 4" and I have 5", no?
It must have done bearing on.
So do you, below.
The compressed coil dimension is important, when you don't have two forklifts, and them remaining captive, I thought, was important too.
Essentially, that's what I did.
Here's the deal.
The coils ain't cheap, freight ain't cheap, and I'd like it to be what I wanted in the first place, ordered, thought I was getting.
It's not, so if you or anyone else can say
"you know what, you're rationale seems solid and this length coils seems to make the most sense to lower just the rear, or the whole damn thing"
Then great. What my purpose was. Not racing, not droopC but to make sure that its compounding this jacked up turd I've been polishing for the last year.
The shock dimensions were for the pro's to review and say "don't lower all four or your screwed", or "looks good whichever way".
Nothing more.
For this to be a precise science, I sure as hell don't know why I feel like a guinea pig.
Yes, it was all stupid, but I've got the ball in my friggin hands and have to run with it.
I wouldn't be cutting the flexi coils. But like Christo said. A 3" coil with 2" coil spacers does ride and perform betting and a 5" coil. But not for wheel travel without remote assistance to stop them falling out.
Enter the flexi coil. The top section collapses completely and it not used until full cycle is required (just like a coil spacer) = good on road characteristics. Now the active coil section works just like a 3" progressive coil. The more weight you add, the stiffer they become, much faster than linear (into the thicker wind section for much less travel). But, they also work the other way with less weight. So they are near perfect for most weight that you carry. It's only the ride height for the given weight that needs to be correct. The next difference is they exert downward force for much longer travel (as the flexi/dead winds become an active part of the suspension). I've always said: your actual suspension travel. Isn't how far your tyre can fall. It's measured until the point the coil leaves the perch (no more downward force). It doesn't matter how far it travels after that, it doesn't help the 4x4 ability at all.
You have some great coils there Chris.
Enter the flexi coil. The top section collapses completely and it not used until full cycle is required (just like a coil spacer) = good on road characteristics. Now the active coil section works just like a 3" progressive coil. The more weight you add, the stiffer they become, much faster than linear (into the thicker wind section for much less travel). But, they also work the other way with less weight. So they are near perfect for most weight that you carry. It's only the ride height for the given weight that needs to be correct. The next difference is they exert downward force for much longer travel (as the flexi/dead winds become an active part of the suspension). I've always said: your actual suspension travel. Isn't how far your tyre can fall. It's measured until the point the coil leaves the perch (no more downward force). It doesn't matter how far it travels after that, it doesn't help the 4x4 ability at all.
You have some great coils there Chris.
- Thread starter
- #26
I'm not faulting anyone or anything other than myself, but it sure feels like it when looking at the expense of all, only to have exactly what I didn't want.
C'est la vie.
- Thread starter
- #27
I type faster than I think
I think too much and type exponentially more.
You know Chris after reading all your build threads, I know you really are passionate about getting things just right. I think unfortunately coil springs are not individually made and there for they are not a science. The manufactures have to make a spring that they think meets most people's goal for that spring.
These are not coil over springs you can't call and order them in 50lbs/in increments to get everything perfectly dialed in. You get a length and spring rate the manuf, thinks is best. In your case it wasn't perfect for you. You have lots of options but no one is going to be able to tell you what to do, you will just have to make a choice and pull the trigger.
So if you think the spring rate feels good and is nice, cutting and grinding your current coils flat shouldn't be a problem, it's just spring steel so don't get it too hot.
If you don't think the spring rate is right and the length is wrong, pull them out and sell them, someone will want them as they are, and then get accurate corner weights and work with a vendor/spring manuf you trust, to get you the ride height you want based off of free length, and spring rate.
But again you are also talking about new axle housings, so if you are going to go that far, you could also 3 link, and have infinitly adjustable ride height and spring rates.
Deep breaths, step back, maybe drive the truck a bit as it is and see what you think, and then come back to the question with your ultimate end goal in mind, then these questions get easier I think. Good luck!
These are not coil over springs you can't call and order them in 50lbs/in increments to get everything perfectly dialed in. You get a length and spring rate the manuf, thinks is best. In your case it wasn't perfect for you. You have lots of options but no one is going to be able to tell you what to do, you will just have to make a choice and pull the trigger.
So if you think the spring rate feels good and is nice, cutting and grinding your current coils flat shouldn't be a problem, it's just spring steel so don't get it too hot.
If you don't think the spring rate is right and the length is wrong, pull them out and sell them, someone will want them as they are, and then get accurate corner weights and work with a vendor/spring manuf you trust, to get you the ride height you want based off of free length, and spring rate.
But again you are also talking about new axle housings, so if you are going to go that far, you could also 3 link, and have infinitly adjustable ride height and spring rates.
Deep breaths, step back, maybe drive the truck a bit as it is and see what you think, and then come back to the question with your ultimate end goal in mind, then these questions get easier I think. Good luck!
- Thread starter
- #29
I knew this thread was a mistake and I apologize to all.
Rides good, they don't fall out, so I'm pleased with the coils.
The ride height I'm not and have little choice but bear responsibility, but want resolved. Purpose of thread was merely to describe, in detail, the conditions and variable surrounding for my purposes and potentially others.
I'm not faulting anyone, other than myself, as I know it's not a precise science. That's why I included the BS that's my interpretations to establish a value I could use to proceed with in correcting.
If I'm going to start cutting, I might as well order a 4" coil stateside and be done, since it'd negate the benefits, perceived or actual, of the expanding upper rungs.
I normally take all in stride, normally contain to "build" thread. Thought better this way and was wrong.
I know you're laughing your ass off, LT.
Guess you deserve the right to.
Rides good, they don't fall out, so I'm pleased with the coils.
The ride height I'm not and have little choice but bear responsibility, but want resolved. Purpose of thread was merely to describe, in detail, the conditions and variable surrounding for my purposes and potentially others.
I'm not faulting anyone, other than myself, as I know it's not a precise science. That's why I included the BS that's my interpretations to establish a value I could use to proceed with in correcting.
If I'm going to start cutting, I might as well order a 4" coil stateside and be done, since it'd negate the benefits, perceived or actual, of the expanding upper rungs.
I normally take all in stride, normally contain to "build" thread. Thought better this way and was wrong.
I know you're laughing your ass off, LT.
Guess you deserve the right to.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
If you are wheeling the truck in extreme terrain, why do you want it lower. That would be my first question. In most cases 80's get stuck on their fat bellies and control arm mounts. Higher off the ground is in most cases better.
Cutting one wind of coil is probably close to 1" of drop you want and is probably going to do very little to the overall performance of the coil. I bet your butt dyno would not even notice it.
PS, don't feel bad about the thread. It gives us something to do.
Cutting one wind of coil is probably close to 1" of drop you want and is probably going to do very little to the overall performance of the coil. I bet your butt dyno would not even notice it.
PS, don't feel bad about the thread. It gives us something to do.
- Thread starter
- #32
At this point, I'd take level.
I have briefly touched on a few other issues I've believe are attributable to the additional 1" up front, but due to the nature of Mud, I haven't posted all because I can't say with certainty.
I don't want to want to cause issues with someones ability to sell a product because of my ignorance.
That's a realistic possibility. If I cut and it bugs the crap out of me, at least I'll know what length to order.
PS, don't feel bad about the thread. It gives us something to do.
Glad to be a source of amusement. Haha.
sleeoffroad
Supporting Vendor
How much in reality and does it matter. I would guess that is the spring is that close to open, the force on it compared to the weight of the 80 is nothing.
- Thread starter
- #34
No way to increase the front further without complicating perceived issues, already.
Waiting on Superior to specifically state the differences, if any, in 4"-5".
If they say none, then I'll order coils that are 20-25mm less for the rear, and I'm done.
Why not just get your caster checked?
- Thread starter
- #38
Planned. Adjusting steering stops at same time to see if I can limit, too.
- Thread starter
- #39
Always 37s and always as low as possible and reason 4" was sought with the notation that cutting sheet metal was the plan, as required.
Christo and LT both told me that it was impossible to have a decent on road driver and still a crawler capable.
I didn't listen. Touché'
Having a truck that can crawl well and drive the street well is tough.
I too have struggled with this, but in the end you will have to make a compromise as to which you want or need the most crawler or streetablility.
As of late I had a hard time with revalving my 7100 bilsteins because they just were not right.
I started to get really in deep as to all types of info regarding valving, spring rate weights etc.
In the end after not listening to what others had told me and a couple of revalves later, I ended up doing what they told me to begin with.
They all said Keep it simple you are reading to deep into it and that it is a 15+ year old truck and not a race truck and you cannot have the best of both worlds without completely redoing the suspension, like coilovers etc.
Like you, I did not listen and wasted countless hours in search of something that was not really going to happen.
I picked a happy medium as far as street and woods handling.
I gave up on chasing small grrrrs and vibes and just stopped throwing money at the truck because in the end all money I threw at it did not do much.
A few geometry tweeks did help a little bit with the help from the Brian at ACC toyota because he runs the same lift as I do
I do agree with Christo that lower is not really better in an 80 if you are going to crawl it fairly hard terrain
The amount of terrain I can tackle with 6 inches of lift as compared to the 4 inch lift I had before is a big difference, well at least it feels that way to me.
Unless you stuff some 40's in there with 4 inches of lift but them you are talking about a whole list of other potential problems like axle strength
