FLAT TOW A 200??? ARE YOU CRAZY??? I AM! (1 Viewer)

[jkilcullen]

Well at least crazy enough to think about it.

Soooo.... I have an 80 that I am getting prepped to tow 4 down behind my RV for an upcoming trip to CO. My wife asked me the question: "Can we bring the white truck instead?" ... White truck being our 2013 Land Cruiser.

She asks this for a simple yet obvious reason. This trip is not about hard core off-roading. Its about family and visiting and convenience. We are traveling 5 deep (3 adults including her mom and 2 car seats) With the 3rd row being permanently removed its REAL tight in my 80.

So I pose the question, is it at all possible to do this without pulling driveshafts. My thought, is there a way to trick the transfer case into neutral? (since there is no physical lever) is there even a neutral within the case physically? I know very little about the 200 series as I haven't started building it yet.

My assumption is just like the 80 and 100 platforms if you get the case into neutral and leave tranny in park it should survive lol. I know there are mixed opinions on the subject but reality is tens of thousands of miles have been logged by 80s and 100s using this method.

Any insight appreciated, anyone have an exploded view of case?

And before any of you feel the need to say it. Even if its "possible" I know MR T and the Owners Manual are going to discourage this activity, same as the 80 and 100. I don't care. If I can prove it would work thats good enough for me.

 

[chipsterguy]

Not sure there is a neutral setting for the transfer case on these rigs as it is an electronic switching mechanism. However, if you disconnect your drive shafts, that should be really no strain on the transfer case or transmission. Just a lot of weight to pull.

 

[studawg]

Owners manual states the vehicle is not designed to be towed with all 4 wheels on the ground; but it is possible to put the transfer case in neutral by some combination of shifts and switches, I just saw it recently.....let me look....

 

[studawg]

NOTE: This is for a 2008, not sure if same for 2013

 

[studawg]

These instructions come at the very end of the Inspection section in the T case section of the 2008 repair manual. This part does not appear in the 2013 manual, at least not there, so I don't know if that means the 2013 system is different, or they chose not to put it there, or what.

 

[Markuson]

NOTE: This is for a 2008, not sure if same for 2013


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They left out the final instruction stage:

1) Pat your head while rubbing your stomach counter-clockwise
2) Say, "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers. If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, how many pickled peppers did Peter Piper pick?"
3) Say 2) backwards
4) Repeat 3) 7 times while doing step 1)

Simple!

 

[bjowett]

Awesome find, thanks for posting it up.

 

[Markuson]

NOTE: This is for a 2008, not sure if same for 2013


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This is one of those obscure things that would absolutely be worth printing and stuffing into your glove box...in case you ever find yourself in need of a tow...but you can only find a standard tow truck. Could really save the day.
-On the other hand...after 17 years of Land Cruisers...my Cruiser has never left me stuck...EVER.
-On the third hand...knock on wood! I'm printing these instructions!

 

[bjowett]

After some thought, this might work, BUT if the t-case is in neutral, the t case gear oil pump is not being driven. The pump is located on the t case input shaft... It can not be turning if the transmission is not driving it. Soo... Is splash lube enough to keep the components in the upper part of the case happy?

 

[chipsterguy]

NOTE: This is for a 2008, not sure if same for 2013


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Has anyone tried this and can verify? Very interesting...

 

[jkilcullen]

Not sure there is a neutral setting for the transfer case on these rigs as it is an electronic switching mechanism. However, if you disconnect your drive shafts, that should be really no strain on the transfer case or transmission. Just a lot of weight to pull.

Pulling shafts and reinstalling every time I need to disconnect and drive off is not an option, think about rolling into an RV park late and the only spot they have is 40' back- in, you need to climb under the land cruiser and install drive shafts before even pulling to your spot....

As far as weight my 200 is probably real close in actual weight to my fully built and armored 80. Either way its well under my 10k max on the 40' pusher that doesn't really notice much of anything with over 800 ft lbs of torque from the Big block Cat motor and air brakes.

 

[jkilcullen]

NOTE: This is for a 2008, not sure if same for 2013


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Printed!!! Will be trying this as soon as I have a few minute to be frustrated lol. THANK YOU!!!!

 

[jkilcullen]

After some thought, this might work, BUT if the t-case is in neutral, the t case gear oil pump is not being driven. The pump is located on the t case input shaft... It can not be turning if the transmission is not driving it. Soo... Is splash lube enough to keep the components in the upper part of the case happy?

^this is what needs to be determined if I can sucessfully get the case into neutral with the above instructions. Anybody have a price on a t-case to see what my experimenting could cost me if it goes wrong? @bjowett do you have an exploded view of the case that shows he oil pump? or have you just had it apart to know?

My thoughts are if there is a driven pump from input that the sloshing of oil would not be enough if it were engaged in gear but depending on layout of components and what is being oiled by pump and what is moving when in neutral it may be ok?

 

[bjowett]

I have a part time JF1A Tundra unit partially dissected, it's very close to the AWD JF2A Land Cruiser unit. The oil pump is the first thing one finds on the front of the case connected to the input shaft. I studied both cases extensively while swapping the JF2A into the Tundra. Both cases have considerable time placed into designing the oil supply system.... The JF2A has all bearings, gears, and the center diff, oil fed through the center of the very long output shaft. There are bearings tucked deep inside the the large hollow input shaft, the nose of the output rotates on these... I am concerned these are the units that could be damaged, not only due to the lack of the oil feed (though enough may work its way in) but due to a stationary input shaft. In neutral, the output will turning quickly at highway speeds, with that stationary input. Normally, the only time these bearings see action in when the t case is operating in low range.... And the difference in speed is the low range ratio of 2.62. Ideally, some calculations should be figured to find the rpm it will be turning. Now, with all that said, we have very little load here as when compared to it being driven by the engine. Enough running on for now... More thoughts as they come. Anyone else have some input?

 

[jkilcullen]

I have a part time JF1A Tundra unit partially dissected, it's very close to the AWD JF2A Land Cruiser unit. The oil pump is the first thing one finds on the front of the case connected to the input shaft. I studied both cases extensively while swapping the JF2A into the Tundra. Both cases have considerable time placed into designing the oil supply system.... The JF2A has all bearings, gears, and the center diff, oil fed through the center of the very long output shaft. There are bearings tucked deep inside the the large hollow input shaft, the nose of the output rotates on these... I am concerned these are the units that could be damaged, not only due to the lack of the oil feed (though enough may work its way in) but due to a stationary input shaft. In neutral, the output will turning quickly at highway speeds, with that stationary input. Normally, the only time these bearings see action in when the t case is operating in low range.... And the difference in speed is the low range ratio of 2.62. Ideally, some calculations should be figured to find the rpm it will be turning. Now, with all that said, we have very little load here as when compared to it being driven by the engine. Enough running on for now... More thoughts as they come. Anyone else have some input?

I think that pretty much confirms my concerns If there are bearings that are meant to allow what I would consider minimal slip from time to time that will now be spinning at a constant rate for 1000's of miles at a time, quite possibly while starving for oil its game over. Just not worth the risk. I'd still love to see a tcase parts book or exploded view, because I'm a nerd and would love to pick it apart myself but I am fairly clear on what you are describing. One slightly off subject question, why put the full time case in a Tundra?

 

[jkilcullen]

And then there is this... Someones doing it (or did it)!!! Blue Ox has a program that will allow you to bring in a vehicle that doesn't have a kit yet and they build one for it, store measurements and produce it. And someone with an LX did it!!!!!! Please whomever owns this vehicle step forward and state your case!

BX3772 Lexus LX570 | Blue Ox

 

[bjowett]

While I have concerns about the bearings, they could very well be unfounded. For all we know, Toyota designed the nuetral feature in for this very purpose.... I'd like to really dig into this, just need to find the time to do so.

The Tundra in 2WD, with an empty bed, has traction issues in stock form. Add a supercharger and it can get a bit ridiculous. The AWD turns it into a giant rally car.

 

[jkilcullen]

While I have concerns about the bearings, they could very well be unfounded. For all we know, Toyota designed the nuetral feature in for this very purpose.... I'd like to really dig into this, just need to find the time to do so.

The Tundra in 2WD, with an empty bed, has traction issues in stock form. Add a supercharger and it can get a bit ridiculous. The AWD turns it into a giant rally car.

Yup, driven the Tundra 2wd no charger and it could get squirrelly at times. So I tried the above instructions and failed... for about 20 minutes. Its unclear but I assume IGN on and engine not running. Anyone else try yet? If so any success? Wondering if my failure is due to my inability to follow directions or a difference between '08 and '13

 

[jkilcullen]

These instructions come at the very end of the Inspection section in the T case section of the 2008 repair manual. This part does not appear in the 2013 manual, at least not there, so I don't know if that means the 2013 system is different, or they chose not to put it there, or what.

Well I really appreciate the info, wondering if you have tried it on your '08 because I can't get it to work on the '13. Maybe theres something I'm missing or like you said maybe it just doesn't have that functionality.

 

[MattAZ]

Let's get this out of the way: new member here, first post, shopping for first LC/LX...

@jkilcullen - I do not think you are crazy or perhaps I am equally crazy. I am a new owner of a diesel pusher and am in need of the perfect "toad" (vehicle towed four wheels down) and have decided on a Land Cruiser or LX for my mission. While most owners would buy something on one of the published towing or "dinghy" guides, I want something different. I have read enough success stories of the LC 100 and LX470 being towed for thousands of miles without issue to feel comfortable planning to do the same. A friend of mine and member here gave me many reasons to consider an LC 200 or LX570. I have scoured the Internet for any evidence to support the capability and this seems to be the only instance of someone trying to determine the feasibility of flat towing an LC 200 or LX570. Eager to provide value and not just receive it from this forum I would like to contribute the following:

http://gershon.ucoz.com/TOYOTA/landcruiser200/4x4/m_ch_0093.pdf

The link above shows a JF2A transfer case diagram and describes what happens as it shifts between 4H and 4L. It confirms that there is a neutral position but doesn't provide much more detail on what the transfer case looks like when set to neutral. It does have a cut-away view which may help someone more informed than me determine the lubrication of the components.

Second - I just spoke with Blue Ox. I was able to confirm that they have sold many of the BX3772 base plates (confirming the reference above as being compatible with the LX570) ; however, since the base plate is also compatible with the Toyota Tundra there is no way to determine if the hundreds that have been installed to date are on Tundras and only one on an LX570 which later imploded its transfer case (please don't say it is so). I got excited when she told me that they had sold a lot of them thinking that there were a bunch of anonymous people out there towing their LC 200s or LX570s. That may or may not be the case.

I would like to buy the newest LC/LX I can afford and this would include an older LC 200 or LX570; however, I don't want to buy one only to learn it is not feasible to flat tow compared to the LC 100 and LX470. I don't want to get in a debate on the merits of one series over the other. If I need to find a nice LC 100 or LX470 I will continue my search in that direction. This will be a vehicle that I will own for a long time and tow with me around the country to use for overland expeditions out from our base camp which may include fire roads and mild OHV trails on one end of the spectrum and highway miles at 75MPH on the other end. I also need something that the wife doesn't hate driving or riding in as a passenger. Her daily driver is a nice preowned MB GL450 (she secretly dreams of a G55 as a tow vehicle but the lack of reliability and an incompatible transfer case eliminate it from the possible options).

Please help me be different than the 9 out of 10 diesel pushers seen traversing our highways with a Wrangler in tow.