Are tires a commodity business?
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I would say "Not necessarily."
Even though the tire industry has undergone significant mergers, there is still a goodly amount of competition in price and quality.
My experience, for instance, has led me to equate the Michelin Defender with the Hankook Dynapro RH12 - with the Hankook currently about $65/tire cheaper. Both are 70k tires and handle well in all conditions, IMHO.
Obviously a topic upon which reasonable men can differ.
Even though the tire industry has undergone significant mergers, there is still a goodly amount of competition in price and quality.
My experience, for instance, has led me to equate the Michelin Defender with the Hankook Dynapro RH12 - with the Hankook currently about $65/tire cheaper. Both are 70k tires and handle well in all conditions, IMHO.
Obviously a topic upon which reasonable men can differ.
I think you will get a decent tire from any of the major brands and, as long as you are not obsessive, probably wouldnt know the difference between them. If you are nit-picky, then you will probably see differences and one tire may perform better for you and your driving style/situations better than another.
That does not mean that lesser known brands make bad tires though. Look at Kenda with their Klever line. They are getting reviewed really well and are pretty cheap in comparison to similar tires from BFG, Goodyear, Toyo, etc.
Just like oil and air filters and all the other things people debate about, it really needs to be a personal decision based on your use case about which tire you land on if you want what performs the best for you.
That does not mean that lesser known brands make bad tires though. Look at Kenda with their Klever line. They are getting reviewed really well and are pretty cheap in comparison to similar tires from BFG, Goodyear, Toyo, etc.
Just like oil and air filters and all the other things people debate about, it really needs to be a personal decision based on your use case about which tire you land on if you want what performs the best for you.
In general I agree, but in the world of sports car tires where it’s a bit easier to compare one tire to another (dry grip, how progressively they lose grip, other factors I’m not a good enough driver to consider) there are dramatic differences from one brand to another in a given category.
I’d have to assume the same engineering differences apply to truck and AT tires, just in different ways.. or I guess ways that are more subtle in the use case talked about here.
But this probably falls into the nit-picky category.
I think tires are like mostly any product, branding recognition. Look at the Wildpeaks, I remember when they were cheap and people didn't really gave them a second look because of their price. Now they're recognized, almost twice the price and no better than when they were released. So we're paying almost twice the price for the same tire.
I paid a decent amount for my Toyo AT3s. Then, even though they're larger and heavier duty, I paid ⅓ of that for the Kendas. The Kendas being a noticeable better tire in my opinion.
Same thing like what happened to Iceco. Even with the Secop compressor they used to be priced just slightly above the other cheap Chinese refs. Now, the same fridges are being priced just slightly below the ARBs, Dometics etc.
I paid a decent amount for my Toyo AT3s. Then, even though they're larger and heavier duty, I paid ⅓ of that for the Kendas. The Kendas being a noticeable better tire in my opinion.
Same thing like what happened to Iceco. Even with the Secop compressor they used to be priced just slightly above the other cheap Chinese refs. Now, the same fridges are being priced just slightly below the ARBs, Dometics etc.
A commodity business would be one where all products are essentially the same. No differentiation between products from different sellers means price is the only relevant factor in making a purchase decision. I would say that does not describe the tire market.
Give me an example of something that you “don’t get what you pay for” with the exception of boutique fashion garbage.
Taxes
With tires, I buy only from big brands/good reputation only. No Toyo. No wildpeaks. No Hankook. No nitto. No general. No Kendra.
Examples of why? Wildpeaks are heavy and uses cheap steel plies. Toyo AT3 is all bark and no bite (consistently suck on 3rd party tests)…they spent all budget on hiring Joe Bacal. Hankook sidewalls not greatest…durability not great either.
Yes to Michelin, BFG, Bridgestone, Conti, Yokohama, and Goodyear. These companies may not have the tires that I want for certain vehicles but I trust their flagship tires when available.
Examples of why? Wildpeaks are heavy and uses cheap steel plies. Toyo AT3 is all bark and no bite (consistently suck on 3rd party tests)…they spent all budget on hiring Joe Bacal. Hankook sidewalls not greatest…durability not great either.
Yes to Michelin, BFG, Bridgestone, Conti, Yokohama, and Goodyear. These companies may not have the tires that I want for certain vehicles but I trust their flagship tires when available.
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What you pay for is brand value + cost of manufacturing.
There are a lot of things that are the same but priced differently based upon the logo on the box. Consider Kirkland brand items. Costco doesn't make these. Their coffee, for example, is just rebranded Starbucks. You pay more for the Starbucks just because of the green and white logo.
Not saying this is the same with tires. There is much tech that goes into them that separates quality from junk. I feel bad for the unknowing consumer who is sold junk China tires from the likes of Les Schwab because they don't know any better and now their car is performing worse than new.
Breakings this down from two perspectives:
1. Casual Users
I would argue that perhaps for this audience, that actual tire qualities and performance matter little. I can see an argument for tires as a commodity. Where paying more for a tire is just to feel good (e.g. brand) as they can't discern qualitative differences. Other than immediate NVH impressions. And possibly incidents where the tire is used in situations outside of its intended use, or the performance envelop is exceeded, and is a wake up call. Even then, some probably wouldn't attribute it to the tire? I'll put my wife in this bucket, but perhaps 90% of the population also falls here. The point is that most every tire is capable of general commuting use.
2. Performance users
This is a different breed of users. Either those that regularly push the performance of the tires. Or utilize them in more extreme use cases where design intent of the tire matters. I've used performance tires for race and off-road. The characteristics of tires vary significantly, even within categories. A/T tires are probably some of the hardest tires to design because of the "All" in All Terrain. For those that actually use these tires in all the very different ways they can be used, there are pretty huge characteristic differences. And that's what makes it so hard to compare, as everyone has slightly different use cases that inform their impressions. Commuting is a poor way to discern differences. The Instagram test is a great way
1. Casual Users
I would argue that perhaps for this audience, that actual tire qualities and performance matter little. I can see an argument for tires as a commodity. Where paying more for a tire is just to feel good (e.g. brand) as they can't discern qualitative differences. Other than immediate NVH impressions. And possibly incidents where the tire is used in situations outside of its intended use, or the performance envelop is exceeded, and is a wake up call. Even then, some probably wouldn't attribute it to the tire? I'll put my wife in this bucket, but perhaps 90% of the population also falls here. The point is that most every tire is capable of general commuting use.
2. Performance users
This is a different breed of users. Either those that regularly push the performance of the tires. Or utilize them in more extreme use cases where design intent of the tire matters. I've used performance tires for race and off-road. The characteristics of tires vary significantly, even within categories. A/T tires are probably some of the hardest tires to design because of the "All" in All Terrain. For those that actually use these tires in all the very different ways they can be used, there are pretty huge characteristic differences. And that's what makes it so hard to compare, as everyone has slightly different use cases that inform their impressions. Commuting is a poor way to discern differences. The Instagram test is a great way
Counter point: at the limits of the traction circle, everyone becomes a 'performance user'. I could make an argument that the less astute the driver, the more important it is to have the best in tires. Emergency braking, evasive maneuvering, inclement weather. While Mario might use skill to make up for what the tires can't deliver, Mary will simply plant her foot or inspect the ditch.
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Breakings this down from two perspectives:
1. Casual Users
I would argue that perhaps for this audience, that actual tire qualities and performance matter little. I can see an argument for tires as a commodity. Where paying more for a tire is just to feel good (e.g. brand) as they can't discern qualitative differences. Other than immediate NVH impressions. And possibly incidents where the tire is used in situations outside of its intended use, or the performance envelop is exceeded, and is a wake up call. Even then, some probably wouldn't attribute it to the tire? I'll put my wife in this bucket, but perhaps 90% of the population also falls here. The point is that most every tire is capable of general commuting use.
2. Performance users
This is a different breed of users. Either those that regularly push the performance of the tires. Or utilize them in more extreme use cases where design intent of the tire matters. I've used performance tires for race and off-road. The characteristics of tires vary significantly, even within categories. A/T tires are probably some of the hardest tires to design because of the "All" in All Terrain. For those that actually use these tires in all the very different ways they can be used, there are pretty huge characteristic differences. And that's what makes it so hard to compare, as everyone has slightly different use cases that inform their impressions. Commuting is a poor way to discern differences. The Instagram test is a great way
Our 2008 Honda CR-V has "good enough" Firestone tires on it because of price and the car's lifetime alignment is with Firestone. They can rotate the tires and align the front end at the same time. As said above, almost every tire is capable for general commuting use.
As @TeCKis300 said, characteristics in performance tires vary a lot. When I had my Yamaha FJR 1300, I was able to scrap the pegs in corners with better performance tires than from a lower level performance tire. But, between those two different tires I had to push them to experience the difference.
I think we all understand, or should, that the tires have differences in handling, water/snow/mud movement, braking, and such based on tire design, ambient temp, tire temp, road temp, vehicle weight, tire psi, tread depth, wheel size, etc. But the casual user probably won't tell any difference.
Two years ago I was driving home from Alabama through Texas. It was a lonely stretch of HWY 287. I heard a "burrrrring" noise. I looked ahead and there was a Jeep about 75 yds away. As the distance closed, the sound became louder. As I passed, the sound from his big off-road tires were so annoying that I pushed it a bit to pass faster.
I thought, "That Jeep would offer more sanity if it had regular highway tires on it."
I'm sure the other driver thought, "Gee, that's a nice looking Sequoia. But it'll look better with big mudders on it."
To each his/her own.
My 2 cents.
I think that a single user buying tires and running them till they have reached end of life is unlikely to be able to truly asses the difference in Brand A vs Brand B in any real world context. I bought a used 2016 in 2018 with 14K miles. The factory tires still on it and they would last till I was annoyed with them at 47k mark. Install 4 new tires. I am at 90K total miles with likely 10 to 15K+ still to live on those 4 tires. That is at least late 2025 before I will need new tires. At which point the 4 I really like are no longer being made and I have to go to something else. Unless you are running through tires once a year (that is a lot of miles or a lot of off roading). How do you really compare a Goodyear to Nitto to Michelin, etc... Also each persons conditions for use will very wildly. I know that for me ride quality, road noise, and semi decent look (vanity on my part). Make up large part of my decision. Snow does not factor, rock crawling does not factor, towing matters, stock size so it will fit in tire carrier matter.
I ran Dunlops, KOs then KO2s, then Nittos on that old T100. I regret the last set of KO2 I bought a tire with to much load rating and suffered a crappy ride for 8 years. Tires dry rotted and that is why they were replaced. I went back to stock size in stock load rating with Nitto and I am loving those tires. Then again I loved the first KO and 2nd KO2 just not 3rd KO2. With age comes hopefully wisdom and less vanity.
Side note we have run the exact same performance tire that came on wife's Infiniti G37S since day one. She some how gets about 38 to 42k out of tires that have 90 day warranty due to speed rating. The most recent set was replacement version of tire that went EOL (end of life). On a previous Infiniti we had replaced the factory spec tire with something in the commodity category and hated them. Happily that was lease and only had 5 months till time to turn it in.
I think that a single user buying tires and running them till they have reached end of life is unlikely to be able to truly asses the difference in Brand A vs Brand B in any real world context. I bought a used 2016 in 2018 with 14K miles. The factory tires still on it and they would last till I was annoyed with them at 47k mark. Install 4 new tires. I am at 90K total miles with likely 10 to 15K+ still to live on those 4 tires. That is at least late 2025 before I will need new tires. At which point the 4 I really like are no longer being made and I have to go to something else. Unless you are running through tires once a year (that is a lot of miles or a lot of off roading). How do you really compare a Goodyear to Nitto to Michelin, etc... Also each persons conditions for use will very wildly. I know that for me ride quality, road noise, and semi decent look (vanity on my part). Make up large part of my decision. Snow does not factor, rock crawling does not factor, towing matters, stock size so it will fit in tire carrier matter.
I ran Dunlops, KOs then KO2s, then Nittos on that old T100. I regret the last set of KO2 I bought a tire with to much load rating and suffered a crappy ride for 8 years. Tires dry rotted and that is why they were replaced. I went back to stock size in stock load rating with Nitto and I am loving those tires. Then again I loved the first KO and 2nd KO2 just not 3rd KO2. With age comes hopefully wisdom and less vanity.
Side note we have run the exact same performance tire that came on wife's Infiniti G37S since day one. She some how gets about 38 to 42k out of tires that have 90 day warranty due to speed rating. The most recent set was replacement version of tire that went EOL (end of life). On a previous Infiniti we had replaced the factory spec tire with something in the commodity category and hated them. Happily that was lease and only had 5 months till time to turn it in.
Remember…most folks compare their old tires that are worn out to brand new tires. So they rave about the new tires as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
This is why most consumer reviews (on car forums, TireRack, DT) are heavily bias and utterly useless.
This is why I love TireRack staff/editorial tire comparisons or Youtube direct comparisons.
This is why most consumer reviews (on car forums, TireRack, DT) are heavily bias and utterly useless.
This is why I love TireRack staff/editorial tire comparisons or Youtube direct comparisons.
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