FJC as a towed (3 Viewers)

[77FJ40-07FJC]

I've been given plenty of mixed info. Talking to an engineer here...
Down and dirty, can a manual (6 spd, 4x4) FJ Crusier be flat towed behind my motor coach or not????
I know the auto can not, but a dealer claims the manual can.

 

[spaldam]

Both transmissions are full time 4wd, and towing any full time 4wd without it being on a trailer is likely to result in some severely warn or even broken parts. Basically it'll put a lot of stress on the transfer case that it wasn't designed for; especially since it only sends 40% of the power to the front wheels.

I guess you could put the transfer case in neutral and get away with it, but I'm still not sure its such a good idea.

The only way I would do it without a flat bed trailer, would be to put the front wheels on a car dolly, and disconnect the rear drive shaft. Make sure any rear lockers are turned off as well.

 

[77FJ40-07FJC]

The thing is those four wheels are running on the pavement 24-7 so the old school notion left over from that "you can't run 4x4 on the pavement" is not grounds from which to claim a definitive answer.
I see coaches pulling FJ Crusiers all the time and I'm trying to find out from someone that has actually pulled one or knows of someone pulling one what they do and what the effects are.
"They" claim you can't pull my FJ 40 too, but I have pulled it in netural/netural for thousands of miles to zero negitive effect.

 

[samibattlemaiden]

not that ive doen it but but can't you just take out the dshafts? had to do that when my taco's clutch went out on friday night like 2 min before all tow shops closed for the weekend like 200 miled from home.

just my .02

 

[77FJ40-07FJC]

Sami, yes I could, but we move around on a semi daily basis when we travel, and that is a lot of drive shaft in's and out's... ya know?
BUT... I welcome ALL answers!
Been pull'n the JF-40.. but we are headed to Bryce and Zion and it gets.... HOT.. so the airconditioned and more comfortable FJC would be SOOOO much better... 'cides would like to sell the FJ-40 to some lucky someone.

Guys n gals, here is the thing (the engineer in me speaking, control grouping)... what happens when you use the gears to take you down a long mountain,.... well the power is transfered from the wheels through the drive train to rev up the engine... right?

What happens when you depress the clutch and drop the trans in netrual and coast down a hill... nothing? .. OK, sure it is for a short distance, but using the gears to engine brake down a long mountain is many-many times the stresses and load of the same thing. ......"the recomemded way to decend a mountain to save brakes"......?????

SO .. thinking that the wheels can't be allowed to drive the drive train won't fly... not on the manual trans version....

Now...on the automatic version we have a different matter, the torque converter and pump needs to be running.


Comments..... PLEASE... we need to press this issue, because this is a main and key hold in sales and usage of the FJ Crusier. Thousands of more could be sold to tow behind coaches which would bring down prices of and accelerate the development of more aftermarket goodies.

 

[spaldam]

I see coaches pulling FJ Crusiers all the time and I'm trying to find out from someone that has actually pulled one or knows of someone pulling one what they do and what the effects are.

I'll bet they are the 2wd models.

I'm sure you could get away with it on a 4wd for a while, but I think the drive shafts components will ware out on you prematurely.
If you do decide to do it, and can’t disconnect stuff, at least put everything in neutral. If you get a car dolly, you can also get a quick disconnect for the rear shaft, and permanently install hook to hold the disconnected shaft in place.

 

[45Kevin]

If the TC is strictly a geared connection then in N you should only be spinning the axles diffs and drive shafts (and the front and rear output shafts in the TC) when towing. There should be no physical connection between the front back and trans/engine. If that is the case, then towing should do no harm.

Put some AC in the 40.

 

[greytandy]

Refer to your owner's manual in case of doubt. Mine says DO NOT flat tow an FJ Cruiser.

 

[samibattlemaiden]

a thought i just had i think i read some where theres a mod you can do on AWD models to change that i might be confused but, if i remember right it was something like the grey wire mod for the tacos that lets you ingage the rear diff lock while in 2WD. again i could be totaly confused cause i think i kinda skimmed over something like this in the 80 section and as i don't yet have an 80 i didn't feel it was important enough to file in the old flesh cabinet.

 

[77FJ40-07FJC]

I pulled the exploded view of the transfer case. ...nothing but gears and synchronizers in an oil bath, the chain that transfers power from the cluster to the front will continue to run while in netural.. this will assure that the gears and bearings continue to get lubed.
Face it, the darned thing could not handle a 6 or 7 mile down hill steep grade using the engine as brake if it couldn't handle it.
With the transfer in N the connection to the trany is broken.

hey Toyota says that about the FJ 40 too.

 

[saskdiesel]

The thing is those four wheels are running on the pavement 24-7 so the old school notion left over from that "you can't run 4x4 on the pavement" is not grounds from which to claim a definitive answer.
I see coaches pulling FJ Crusiers all the time and I'm trying to find out from someone that has actually pulled one or knows of someone pulling one what they do and what the effects are.
"They" claim you can't pull my FJ 40 too, but I have pulled it in netural/netural for thousands of miles to zero negitive effect.

Any 4 spd 40 can be pulled anywhere.
Nobody would claim the opposite.
when the t-case is in neutral the idler gears are still spinning and oil is still flowing.
If you tow some of the NP cases in nuetral you will have BIG problems with lube.
I am not sure about the chain case in the FJC.

 

[saskdiesel]

Sami, yes I could, but we move around on a semi daily basis when we travel, and that is a lot of drive shaft in's and out's... ya know?
BUT... I welcome ALL answers!
Been pull'n the JF-40.. but we are headed to Bryce and Zion and it gets.... HOT.. so the airconditioned and more comfortable FJC would be SOOOO much better... 'cides would like to sell the FJ-40 to some lucky someone.

Guys n gals, here is the thing (the engineer in me speaking, control grouping)... what happens when you use the gears to take you down a long mountain,.... well the power is transfered from the wheels through the drive train to rev up the engine... right?

What happens when you depress the clutch and drop the trans in netrual and coast down a hill... nothing? .. OK, sure it is for a short distance, but using the gears to engine brake down a long mountain is many-many times the stresses and load of the same thing. ......"the recomemded way to decend a mountain to save brakes"......?????

SO .. thinking that the wheels can't be allowed to drive the drive train won't fly... not on the manual trans version....

Now...on the automatic version we have a different matter, the torque converter and pump needs to be running.


Comments..... PLEASE... we need to press this issue, because this is a main and key hold in sales and usage of the FJ Crusier. Thousands of more could be sold to tow behind coaches which would bring down prices of and accelerate the development of more aftermarket goodies.

If you coast down the hill the mainshaft in the trans is at road speed.
If you push in the clutch and coast in low gear down steep declines you may have your clutch flying apart! Especially in low range.
Seen that a few times.
Better to leave it in gear down hill at all times

 

[77FJ40-07FJC]

saskdiesel, yeah me too. ... good point. easy to sing that clutch disk like a high speed CD. .... not so great for primary gear bearings either.

..and... they used to claim I couldn't tow my '77FJ 40...

From the exploded view as I see it the chain simply is driven by the front shaft and the other shaft by the rear... both will be spinning a couple of gears and bearings in an oil bath supplied by the churning chain to the non-engaged dogs and cluster at mostly the same speed same direction while in netural. .... I'm going to be finding out...

 

[greytandy]

Not to belabor the point, but I sure do think you're taking an awful chance flat towing the FJC. My FJ40 owner's manual states the FJ40 can be flat towed with proper precautions. The FJC owner's manual says do not flat tow the FJC. That said, if you do decide to do it, let us know what you did and how it worked out.

 

[77FJ40-07FJC]

I will report results here...... I haven't picked up my new FJC yet... I have the right to refuse it at this point.

One point I will make before I do tow it flat. I will jack one side off the ground. Put both levers in netural. Rotate an off the ground tire with the keys off. See what happens at the other off the ground tire. This would be to assure that the transfer diff does not go into a state that could become bound up while being pulled. Ideally, I will find that with both levers in netural the tires do not effect each other or that the front rotates the opposite of the rear, because I hope the diff inside the transfer goes into a non-satilite lock status.... meaning the diff will rotate at float because the trans is out of the torque equation. However if the front rotates the same direction as the rear, binding could occure. .......we will see.... Then you will bet I will take a short test tow... and check for bind-up... proceeding in increments.... If my method works out simply attempting to shift the transfer from N to HH to LL and back to N will disclose if any binding is happening..... (those with FJ 40's are well aquainted with this concept after running in 4x4, with hubs locked, on pavement for a few dozen feet) any thoughts????
....... if no binding happens.... it is a done deal.... it goes on a trip for a definitive test and a report back here.

Greytandy, .. is your FJC a 6 speed manual?

 

[greytandy]

Greytandy, .. is your FJC a 6 speed manual?

Yep. Drove the auto and didn't like it as much. Good luck!

 

[77FJ40-07FJC]

Here are the results of my test run towing my FJ Cruiser.
This is my opinion of what I did, and it is NOT A RECOMMENDATION.

After extensive studies I confer with Toyota that I too would most definitively publish the FJ Cruiser as not designed to be towed. It is true, it was NOT designed to be towed, but I found that I can tow my manual 6 speed version safely. ..I need to explain that, don’t I?

The problem is, from a manufacturer’s perspective the chances of an owner towing the Cruiser incorrectly is far too likely. They would suffer numerous cases of drive train damage with the owners claiming they towed correctly and would suffer a lightning fast reputation of having a crappy transmission, … (hey, you guys said it could be towed). The answer is to simply state that FJ Cruisers are not designed to be towed. Now, when someone tows one incorrectly they are on their own. This is very wise of Toyota.

Why is it so likely that an owner would tow one incorrectly? Well, in the past we have become accustomed to towing manual transmission 4x4’s with both the diff and the tranny in neutral. This would be disastrous to the drive train of the FJ Crusier… (thus Toyota’s response). Most idiots would read the part that says it can be towed and go do just that… am I right??? .. never bothering to read how because it is a 4x4 that can be towed….. WRONG!!!!

The transfer case differential in the FJ Cruiser is not like those we have used in the past. The transfer differential is locked in HL (high locked), N (neutral), and LL (low locked). This differential is only unlocked (active) when the transfer case’s shift lever is in the H (highway) position. While in the N position the transfer case does not transfer power from the transmission to the drive shafts, BUT the transfer case’s differential is locked, I can not stress this point enough. This means on pavement the gears will bind up if you do not have the transfer case shift lever in the H position… the exact same thing is true while you drive the FJ Cruiser.

I have now towed my manual 6 speed FJ Cruiser for hundreds of miles with zero damage. I am now convinced that the drive train spins and oils just as it would if it were being powered by the engine. While being towed the primary input shaft of the transmission is not spinning but I believe it is being splashed by sling oil from the secondary (output) shaft. Besides, a non spinning shaft does not need to be lubricated my flowing gear grease….. it isn’t doing any work.

I confirmed this oiled theory by stopping and feeling the transfer case, transmission, and rear members often for many miles to see how the heat was handled and spread. During this control group test, they all warmed just the same to the sense of touch as when being powered by the engine. (The pain threshold of touch with the hand is 130°f.) The members never reached a point in which I could not keep my hands on them for several seconds, (the powered and towed results had no recognizable differences). Plus, the transmission warmed from one end to the other and from top to bottom evenly, this can only be done if the oil is being slung by the spinning secondary (output) shaft in gear grease, bathing the entire inside of the transmission.

Clearly, I will flat tow my FJ Cruiser many times in the future and will expect to get slightly less wear (less work load, they are only spinning their own mass) while in tow than while driving the same miles under power.

I do not recommend that anyone tow their FJ Cruiser for the same reasons I believe that Toyota states they are not designed to be towed. You must make your own decision. If you do tow yours you must understand the severe consequences of placing the transfer case in any other than the H position. You get ZERO CHANCES to make a mistake here … not a task to perform with a beer in the other hand.

To my knowledge the only way to tow ANY automatic transmission powered FJ Cruiser is to have “quick disconnects” installed on the drive shafts, or to remove the drive shafts.

Also, realize, in nearly all states you will be required to have a brake away system to lock the brakes if the tow bar separates. …and …in nearly all states you must have a method that will apply the brakes of the FJ Cruiser if your towing vehicle makes a hard stop.

Now, do you blame Toyota for stating that the FJ Cruiser is not designed to be towed???
I most certainly would have done the same!!!!! AND.. it was NOT designed to be towed, or the transfer case would unlock the differential while the shift lever is in the neutral position.


..added in... when being towed with the key in the acc position to unlock steering, the Odometer did not registor milage.

 

[spaldam]

Here are the results of my test run towing my FJ Cruiser.
This is my opinion of what I did, and it is NOT A RECOMMENDATION...

Great information. Thanks for putting it together for us.

It sounds like my original suggestion of using a car dolly and disconnecting the rear drive shaft would also work, and would only add ware to the rear drive shaft and tires. At least that's the way I would do it, but a full on trailer would be best.

 

[77FJ40-07FJC]

Returned from another extensive trip towing my manual trans FJ Cruiser with no problems. Total towed miles to date... geeeze ... 7-8K

 

[HJ-45CrewCab]

After a year

Any update? I passed a motorhome this weekend towing a FJC 4 wheels down w/ a tow bar. I-95 North in NH.