FJ80 or FZJ80?

[sapoverde]

Great posts, fellas. I love all the input.

Firetruck, thanks for breaking some things down for me. Much appreciated.

Ebag, great point about high mileage. That was hilarious.

Big Green, well said, I hope to be cruisin' soon.

I can either get a '91 with 190k miles or a '94 with 276k miles. Both are the same price. Does anyone think that the mileage difference is a non-factor just because the '94 has rear disc brakes, viscous coupling, floating rear axle, and more horsepower? My inclination is to go with the lower mileage one-owner vehicle. But if you guys tell me that 100k extra miles on a LC is like 10k on other vehicles, then I'll listen.

-Sapo

 

[sdnative]

Brakes are larger on 93+.

Stopping power is a big plus, especially on heavily loaded trucks.

 

[lt1fire]

For your needs i'd say the 91.... you will need to do almost zero maintenance on it for 4 years after you zero out the vehicle and with one owner you will know the complete history.

The only thing you need to think of is that it will have no airbag and no abs but will still be a stout family hauler.

 

[mr jits]

100k is a huge difference, think of tens years worth of extra wear and tear in a shorter time period.
You can swap in an axle with discs later if you want, but none of these trucks are known for stopping on a dime.
I'd go with the 91, but you already know I'm biased toward the 3FE.

 

[FlashBeeZy]

100k is a huge difference, think of tens years worth of extra wear and tear in a shorter time period.
You can swap in an axle with discs later if you want, but none of these trucks are known for stopping on a dime.
I'd go with the 91, but you already know I'm biased toward the 3FE.

This.

 

[Ebag333]

100k is a huge difference, think of tens years worth of extra wear and tear in a shorter time period.

On a Cruiser?

Keep in mind that for industrial use the recommended rebuild time is 100k KM. There are plenty of 80's with 300k+ miles (not KM) without a rebuild. Is 200k+ miles a lot? Sure, but there's no reason why it couldn't go a long time with no issue.

Wear and tear is not much of an issue for 80's. How many threads have you seen of a 3FE or 1FZ engine wearing out? I've seen threads of 80's with 200k+ miles on them being rebuilt...and folks being amazed at how good/new everything looked, despite all the miles.

Both the 3FE and 1FZ are hugely overbuilt, so mileage isn't really much of an issue.

You can swap in an axle with discs later if you want, but none of these trucks are known for stopping on a dime.

Maybe your truck. I have a stock 80 and a lifted/armored 80 running military 37 rims and tires. The lifted/armored 80 stops nearly as good as the stock 80, and the stock 80 will stop on a dime.

There's been a couple threads about stopping power, and all the LC's from 80 on (not sure about earlier) have as good of stopping power as any SUV/truck, and as good as many sedans.

Once you get to a certain point with braking, you can't do any better, because the weak point becomes how well the tires grip the pavement. So it doesn't really matter the size/weight of the vehicle, the limiting factor is the rubber.

I'd go with the 91, but you already know I'm biased toward the 3FE.

I'd hold out for an OBD-II 95-97.

But if you can't wait, test drive both and buy the one you like driving better. Fuggedabout the mileage.

 

[mr jits]

Contrary to the above statements, 100k miles is can be quite a lot of wear and tear depending on PO's and maintenance, 80's do not stop on a dime (I've had six pot brakes on an Audi and Brembo's on a mustang, I can tell you what stopping is, and it ain't an 80), and your personal preference and gut are going to be the best judgements makers you have. We can all argue what we like best, but it's your cash, and your time.

 

[Ebag333]

Contrary to the above statements, 100k miles is can be quite a lot of wear and tear depending on PO's and maintenance,

I've seen too many low mileage 80's turn out to be huge money/time sinks, and too many "high" mileage 80's end up being in great condition to consider mileage the only factor in the decision.

It's all personal preference and what you're comfortable with. Some people think I'm crazy for buying two 80's with 150k on them, I consider those low mileage.

80's do not stop on a dime (I've had six pot brakes on an Audi and Brembo's on a mustang, I can tell you what stopping is, and it ain't an 80)

Sports car to a truck is a little unfair comparison? Gonna compare a motorcycle to an 80 for 0-60 times next?



Reposted from another thread.

Here is some brake data that I have collected, it’s not directly comparable, temp, surface, test method, etc come into play, but gives a good idea of performance trends. Most of the groups are from the same source, so comparable. Note the ’96 Models group, the ’80 did better than vehicles weighing 1/2 ton less, I would call that “best in class” and the ‘80’s performance compares very well overall to other tested vehicles.

Note that most vehicles with well designed brakes group closely by weight. This is true because; if the brake system is capable of producing ~95% of tire skid, brake performance becomes a game of coefficient of friction (tire traction) and to a lesser extent mass in motion (rig weight). So in the end of the game it comes down to tire construction, compound, inflation, etc, a hard compound, over inflated tire will break loose, not stop as fast as a softer, properly inflated tire.

Braking Distance (60-0 mph):

1996 LX450 … 136
1997 LX450 ... 132
1998 Toyota Landcruiser … 140
2003 GX470 ... 131
2003 LX470 … 134
2005 Toyota Landcruiser … 135
FJ Cruiser ... 126

Some 1994 Models
Toyota Landcruiser … 136
Plymouth Voyager … 137
Pontiac Trans Sport … 145
Honda Passport … 141

1996 Acura NSX … 128

Some 2000 Models
Cadillac Eldorado ESC … 131
Lexus LS400 … 131
Infiniti Q45 … 137
4Runner LTD V6 4WD … 138
Lincoln Continental … 139
Nissan Pathfinder 4WD … 141
Jeep Cherokee 4WD … 145
Ford Explorer LTD 4WD … 148
GMC Jimmy SLE 4WD …150
Isuzu Rodeo LS 4WD … 156

Some 2004 Trucks
Ford F150 Super Cab 4WD … 147
Nissan Titan Crew Cab 4WD … 137
Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4WD … 139

2006 Government Police tests;
Charger 3.5 V6 … 130
Charger Hemi … 131
Impala V6 … 142
Ford Crown Victoria … 143
Explorer 4.6 V8 … 150
Expedition 5.4 V8 … 143
Tahoe 5.3 V8 … 145
Dodge Magnum V6 … 128

2007
Toyota FJ Cruiser Auto 4WD … 123
Nissan Xterra Off-Road Auto 4WD … 127

When the data shows that 80's can stop comparable to to 2006 sedans.....

If your 80 series braking was worse, then it's because you neglected the braking system.

 

[86tuning]

other than horsepower.

Horsepower is a very valid reason to go with the 1fz engine. I'd highly recommend you go with the newest car with the beat maintenance history that you can find. Lower mileage is nice but isn't a deal breaker on any of these cars.

 

[pursuit]

On the horsepower question, what are you going to do with your 80? I own a 91, and have driven a 97. Both haul a full load of people and gear with almost no effect felt on power. Both are slower on hills with a trailer with any weight in it, but I would swear the 97 is more affected.

On the ABS, do a search for ABS related issues. Old ABS can be a pain. Similarly, old airbags can be erratic when it comes time to do their trick.

Other reasons I think the 91 vs newer model argument is a little overblown: My 91 with upgraded front brakes and toasted rear drums stops better than the 97 with 100k on the stock setup. My 91 cloth interior is virtually mint compared to the hard, cracked leather interior on the 97. My 91 leaks oil pretty badly out of multiple leaks, but runs like a clock while the 97 engine bay looks cherry but has had a few electrical malfunction trips to the garage. The 97's owner is saving for a head gasket replacement, I'm not.

I just had this conversation the other day with a guy trying to decide older vs newer model.. they're both great old trucks. Some of the cons of the older models can actually be pros when it comes to simplicity and ruggedness. Some of the pros of the newer models can be cons when it comes to complexity and maintenance.

In my opinion, pick the individual truck that appeals to you and your needs rather than buying some particular model that appeals to other people.

 

[sapoverde]

Thanks for everything, fellas. I purchased a '94 with 236k mi. It seemed a little wider in the second row compared to the '91, and I liked the way it handled. Now the work begins.

-Sapo

 

[RockDoc]

If you get the 3FE, make sure you run an oil or additive rich in ZDDP to help keep the side cam and solid lifters happy. API CJ/SM and later rated oils have the additive pulled way back for emissions concerns.

I run Catapillar DEO, others run Castrol GTX Diesel, or Rotella with a cam break-in additive..... Lots of threads and too much info in the 60 section if you want to read. Example