FJ60 Transfer Case- Seating front output shaft

[hank14]

I just finished re-installing my rebuilt transfer case for the second time. I would appreciate some input.

I used these 2 threads which were very helpful:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/188968-split-case-rebuild.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/487813-transfer-assembly-pictures.html

I have one question that will bug me until I get a definitive answer. On the front 1/2 of the case before it is mounted to the transmission, when the front output shaft is pressed onto the new front output shaft bearing, does the shaft seat all the way against the bearing?

I ask this because I had a shop replace that bearing and press the front shaft back in and it wasn't seated all the way against the bearing. I was getting a "growling" sound and some vibration in 4WD, so I pulled it apart and seated the bearing all the way. The growl is gone, but there is still some vibration there.

I used the instructions in the FSM and I assume if the bearing was not supposed to be seated all the way on the shaft, there would have been a step on the shaft or it would have said in the FSM.

I can post pictures if it helps.

 

[hank14]

Here's some pictures. This is from a spare t-case I had installed first. The guy that pressed the shaft on did not seat the front output shaft on all the way (about 1/8 inch shy). After assembly, I was getting a growl when I let off the gas in 4WD- especially at higher speeds.

These pictures are with the shaft seated all the way on the bearing. Is this correct?

 

[hank14]

I'll get a video up this weekend showing the small amount of play in the front output shaft. In the meantime, thinking it might be the front differential or axle, I removed the front drive shaft. Driving around in 2wd, 4Hi, or 4Lo, hubs locked or unlocked, the truck is smooth and completely quiet.

With the front drive shaft in place in 2WD with hubs unlocked, it is smooth and completely quiet- just like a 2wd vehicle.
With the front hubs locked and the front drive shaft in place, I get some vibration on the highway from about 35-40 mph and higher- it gets worse with faster speed.
In 4wd low with front hubs engaged, it is smooth and quiet up to 25 mph going straight on dry pavement.
In 4WD hi going straight on dry pavement, I get vibration and noise above about 35-40 mph.

So, what did I do wrong when assembling the front output shaft of my t-case? I'm stumped.

 

[hank14]

Here's a couple of videos to try and show what I'm dealing with.

100_0950.mp4 video by hank14 - Photobucket

100_0952.mp4 video by hank14 - Photobucket

 

[TEXASYETI]

Scott,
Great videos that do really nice job of illustrating the issue. Have you emailed Kurt or Georg? They would seem to be able to give you an opinion. I got under mine and do not feel any of that play in my front output shaft. It's weird though cause you have play on both the T-cases - the one installed and the one not installed.

Hope you get some solid responses on this.

 

[hank14]

Thanks. I emailed Kurt but was waiting to post the videos. I'm puzzled because the preload and function of the rear output is great. I don't know what's different about the front.

 

[hank14]

I just saw that Specter has different snap ring thicknesses. This would probably prevent that play. Anyone know how common it is to have to use a thicker snap ring following a t-case rebuild? I didn't see any mention of this in the FSM.

Specter Off-Road Land Cruiser Parts - Search On 070-30

 

[hank14]

Alright- I'm ready to figure this one out. Any help out there from the t-case rebuild experts?

 

[Ivy4x4]

You're on the money, it's down to snap ring thickness. Have you got the FSM handy? Just get the right one that will put back to factory spec. How are the teeth on the shaft that wasn't seated fully? Any damage? The noise you were getting initially was the selector hub just making contact with the front shaft when it's disengaged.

Good luck.

 

[hank14]

You're on the money, it's down to snap ring thickness. Have you got the FSM handy? Just get the right one that will put back to factory spec. How are the teeth on the shaft that wasn't seated fully? Any damage? The noise you were getting initially was the selector hub just making contact with the front shaft when it's disengaged.

Good luck.

Thank you for the advice!

I do have the FJ60 FSM (1984 Chassis and Body Repair Manual). On pages TF-23 and 24 it says to remove and install the snap ring, but doesn't mention checking the thickness when replacing the front output bearing.

For the high and low gear output shaft on page TF-25, it does mention in step 3 to "Select a snap ring that will allow minimum axial play and install it on the shaft." Is that the one that comes in different thicknesses?

Also, I agree about the noise from the disengaged hub. I checked closely for any wear and did not see any.

 

[orangefj45]

I think the problem is in the front case half. It's not a bearing or snap ring issue.

The ball bearing for the front output shaft should have to be pressed into the case half and should not be able to "float" like yours does. That tells me that the previous bearing ( before the rebuild) spun in the case half, causing the case to wear out the bearing bore, both in diameter and length.

I would suggest finding another known good case half and then using it to compare to yours. I bet your bearing pocket is worn both ways.

I'm pretty sure I have a spare half if you need me to take some measurements.

Hth

Georg @ valley hybrids

Ps: there are no selective snap rings for that bearing

 

[Ivy4x4]

I think the problem is in the front case half. It's not a bearing or snap ring issue.

The ball bearing for the front output shaft should have to be pressed into the case half and should not be able to "float" like yours does. That tells me that the previous bearing ( before the rebuild) spun in the case half, causing the case to wear out the bearing bore, both in diameter and length.

I would suggest finding another known good case half and then using it to compare to yours. I bet your bearing pocket is worn both ways.

I'm pretty sure I have a spare half if you need me to take some measurements.

Hth

Georg @ valley hybrids

Ps: there are no selective snap rings for that bearing

I stand to be corrected. Orangefj45 is on the money here. I have crossed my wires and there is no selective snap rings just as been mentioned. I have checked your videos and have to agree that it looks like the front case half is worn...... My apologies for the bad info.

All the very best of luck

 

[hank14]

I was wondering if it was an issue with the front 1/2 of the case as well when the bearings were easily removed and installed. This was on both cases I have- including my original one which is installed now and has probably hardly ever been in 4wd or had the front hubs locked and another one with unknown use.

I will look at it some more and report back. Looks like I'll be pulling it a 3rd time!

 

[orangefj45]

i've only seen this issue a few times, it's more common on the rear bearing retainer.
and that makes me wonder, could it be the bearing itself?! if it's something other than a koyo bearing then that might be the problem. the koyos are very consistant.
pull the bearing and get a manufacturer and part #. also, measure the OD and heigth with a set of mics. i'll measure a koyo bearing and we'll go from there.
one more thing: check the bearing on the very back of the transmission main shaft. it's supposed to be identical to the bearing in the front half. but i have seen them vary in part # and thickness. the thinner bearing is supposed to go on the trans main shaft.

last but not least: this is often overlooked and not thought of. greasing your drivelines is a good thing, especially the u-joints. but DO NOT put a ton of grease into the slip joint portion of the drive shafts. just a couple of pumps. if you fill the slip joint up with grease then you're creating hydraulic pressure. that in turn will try to push the pinion flange and t-case flange away from each other. over time that can cause bearings to go bad or to spin in their respectice bores. i've seen more than one pinion bearing get damaged this way. could be doing the same to the bore in the front case half.

hth

georg @ valley hybrids

 

[hank14]

i've only seen this issue a few times, it's more common on the rear bearing retainer.
and that makes me wonder, could it be the bearing itself?! if it's something other than a koyo bearing then that might be the problem. the koyos are very consistant.

I finally made time to check this out.

On both transfer cases, I installed brand new KOYO bearings- part number 6207YR6C3 for both the transmission output shaft and the transfer front output.

I did not have to press either of them in or out of the front 1/2 of either t-case.

Since the problem seems to be identical on both cases and I rebuilt and installed them both, I am thinking I'm the problem. I just don't know what I did wrong. When I get time, I'm going to pull the t-case again.

Can I send it to you and have you look it over for me, Georg?

I want to solve this problem once and for all.

 

[orangefj45]

Hey scott. Don't beat yourself up over this. I get my butt kicked at the shop sometimes just the same. I don't think you're doing anything wrong. The fact that the bearing drops into the case half fairly readily is an indicator ghat the case or bearing is the issue.

Let me see what I have on hand and we'll go from there.

Hth

Georg

 

[orangefj45]

Ps: since your 60 is an 87 I'm going to assume that we're dealing with a 38mm case, correct?! Unless somebody switched it out for an earlier 34mm unit....

 

[hank14]

Yes. It's an 87.

Thanks!

 

[hank14]

Also, this is not a rush project. I'm not having to DD my 60 right now so I don't mind sending it to Cali. I'd like to see what's wrong so I can learn and get it right next time.

 

[orangefj45]

ok. i made little time today after lunch to check this out.

first i measured some of the front bearings for proper thickness:

koyo .663
ntn .661
nachi .663

these are all japanese quality bearings. they either come in the cases from toyota or in the better rebuild kits.

next i measured the pocket depth which is .665 and that's right where it outta be.

i then installed a bearing and snap ring in the bare case halv i have. prefect fit, no slop.

so you either have a freak coincidence of having two bad front halves with the same issue, or these's something else going on.

hth

georg