Fj60 diesel conversion (1 Viewer)

[cruiser guy]

I can fully understand not wanting to cut up your good condition core support. Can you measure the opening in the core support and compare those square inches to the 6.5 rad core size? The 6.5 rad core has 663 sq inches of front facing core open to incoming air by the way. Since the core support opening is smaller than the 6.5 core, the area covered by the metal of the core support will be blocking air flow and reducing frontal area open to incoming air. I wish I knew of an accurate way to measure cooling capacity of a radiator. I would really like to accurately compare the three core aluminum rad to a stock 6.5 rad. I feel I need to explain why I'm being paranoid about cooling. Do you know the difference between direct injection (DI) for a diesel and indirect injection (IDI)? Up until about three to four years ago I was totally ignorant when it came to diesels, but I ended up with lots of extra time, so I spent that time learning (although I still have a long ways to go). With DI the fuel is injected directly into the cylinder. But with IDI the diesel fuel is injected into a chamber in the head that is separate from, but connected to, the cylinder bore by way of a small opening. As the piston moves up and compression increases the fuel is injected into the pre-combustion chamber (pre-cup). When the fuel ignites the resulting flame front moves from the pre-cup through the small opening and into the cylinder. This keeps more of the combustion heat in the head than with a DI diesel. This then creates a need for much better cooling, and is why I'm so concerned about the rad. I'm going to disappear from Mud for a while and go to the diesel forums to find what the CFM is for the stock 6.5 fan. Don

I'm familiar with idi and di I have spun quite a few wrenches on both. I have an old ford with a 6.9 idi and turbo kit on it so I know all about toes and I know if you let the 6.5 get over 215 they heads crack it's one of there faults I have heard. I did a 6.2 swap in a 6.2 awhile back (Johnny should remember) and I also used the stock Landcruiser radiator like his 4bt and the 6.2 never sees past 180 on temp it rides 170 90 percent of the time. Usually on the v8 swaps I have ran stock radiators too because they seem to cool pretty well. But I am also curious was would cool better the big 6.5 rad or the high performance Toyota replacement I am holding off on ripping it apart until I figure all that out

 

[cruiser guy]

And keep in mind don I will have a cold air intake right off my snorkel to the turbo and a 3 inch down pipe 4 inch exhaust 100 percent straight piped so that will help out with heat a lot

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I remember the last 6.2 you did. This 6.5 should have a bunch more power over that boat anchor

If your FJ60 radiator is in good shape, why don't you just run it and she how she does? Get an accurate temp gauge and drive her around. I bet you'll be OK if you put a good fan on there.

Speaking of fans, I'm a big fan (pun intended) of the Contour fans in FJ60s. I have a flex-a-lite controller and it can really pull some air through the radiator.

 

[cruiser guy]

I remember the last 6.2 you did. This 6.5 should have a bunch more power over that boat anchor If your FJ60 radiator is in good shape, why don't you just run it and she how she does? Get an accurate temp gauge and drive her around. I bet you'll be OK if you put a good fan on there. Speaking of fans, I'm a big fan (pun intended) of the Contour fans in FJ60s. I have a flex-a-lite controller and it can really pull some air through the radiator.

the stock radiator had a v8 kiss it in Moab when my motor mounts broke. The actual metal sheared middle of the mount and it went right into it. Found a dude in town that fixed it for like 30 bucks and it didn't leak and I have a friend down there that lent me her welder to fix the mounts and get home

 

[cruiser guy]

And you made the fj60 fan work on the 4tb?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

the stock radiator had a v8 kiss it in Moab when my motor mounts broke. The actual metal sheared middle of the mount and it went right into it. Found a dude in town that fixed it for like 30 bucks and it didn't leak and I have a friend down there that lent me her welder to fix the mounts and get home

Well then I'd get a new radiator in there, but a new radiator might be good. Like I said, put in an accurate gauge and keep an eye on it. If the temps are higher than you want, then put a bigger radiator in.

And you made the fj60 fan work on the 4bt?

No, I'm running an electric Ford Contour fan on my FJ6x radiator, controlled with a flex-a-lite controller.

Fans, controller and controller's fuse wired up:

I used a couple of pieces of 3/4" square tube from Lowes, with bolts into the stock shroud mounting points on the radiator, and a couple of bolts per side into the shroud. I used foam tape to seal up the space around the shroud.

How close the shroud is on the top edge of the radiator. Same tolerance at the bottom. It's like this fan was made to fit!

I installed it when I still had my 2F, as a prep step for the 4BT conversion, and it has worked beautifully with both motors.

 

[cruiser guy]

Well then I'd get a new radiator in there, but a new radiator might be good. Like I said, put in an accurate gauge and keep an eye on it. If the temps are higher than you want, then put a bigger radiator in. No, I'm running an electric Ford Contour fan on my FJ6x radiator, controlled with a flex-a-lite controller. Fans, controller and controller's fuse wired up: I used a couple of pieces of 3/4" square tube from Lowes, with bolts into the stock shroud mounting points on the radiator, and a couple of bolts per side into the shroud. I used foam tape to seal up the space around the shroud. How close the shroud is on the top edge of the radiator. Same tolerance at the bottom. It's like this fan was made to fit! I installed it when I still had my 2F, as a prep step for the 4BT conversion, and it has worked beautifully with both motors.

what cfm do those things pull?? That turned out super clean!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

what cfm do those things pull?? That turned out super clean!

I have no idea. I can look though.

I can tell you that on high, it pulls enough air to suck a piece of paper flat against the grill when the truck is sitting still, and I'm not running a lower valance.

EDIT:
- Found some random mustang site that says it flows well over 3000cfm:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/946255-ford-contour-dual-fan-cfm.html
- Found another site that lists cfm for the comparable Taurus fan at 6000cfm and I'd guess that the contour fan is damn close to the contour fan (I don't think this is correct)
http://forums.trailvoy.com/showpost.php?p=728594&postcount=125
- Found another site that lists the 3400cfm for the Contour fan and 3800cfm for the Taurus fan
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314940

Long story short, somewhere between 3000 and 3500cfm is a safe bet.

 

[cruiser guy]

I have no idea. I can look though. I can tell you that on high, it pulls enough air to suck a piece of paper flat against the grill when the truck is sitting still, and I'm not running a lower valance. EDIT: - Found some random mustang site that says it flows well over 3000cfm: http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/946255-ford-contour-dual-fan-cfm.html - Found another site that lists cfm for the comparable Taurus fan at 6000cfm and I'd guess that the contour fan is damn close to the contour fan (I don't think this is correct) http://forums.trailvoy.com/showpost.php?p=728594&postcount=125 - Found another site that lists the 3400cfm for the Contour fan and 3800cfm for the Taurus fan http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314940 Long story short, somewhere between 3000 and 3500cfm is a safe bet.

so it should be plenty to cool the 6.5. Are yours on a temp switch or just on and off setup?

 

[handcannon]

I totally missed the turboed Ford diesel in your signature line. I sure hope I didn't offend you with my DI/IDI post. I apologize if I did. It sounds like you have a good knowledge of some of the weaknesses of the 6.5. I did read this thread as you posted, but I'm going to have to re-read so I can refresh my feeble memory.

Having the cold air intake will be a big plus as long as it's big enough to not cause a restriction. Also, having the three inch downpipe and four inch straight piped exhaust puts you way ahead of the game.

I searched on the truckstop forum for any CFM number, unsuccessfully. I then started a thread asking for info on the fan CFM. I'll copy over to here some of the replies I got. The first one is from a guy in West Jordan, Utah, not very far from you. He runs a lifted 97 Chevy K2500, and it sounds like he's done a lot of special work on it. It sounds like he does good until he tows, or gets into slow driving in the rough stuff.

---I have been running dual electrics on my rig. Flex-a-lite. They pull 5000 CFM combined. I have no problems running the ac or driving around town or highway. Its gotten hot climbing really steep grades going slow (5,000 to 10,000 ft in 5 miles) and towing up canyons. Other than that I love the freed up power with the clutch fan off. Since I switched turbos it has only helped the truck run colder and I see even less cooling issues.---

Here's a short one with a CFM number.

---10,000 is what I've read on here. never seen any numbers anywhere else---

Here's another from a guy who does hotshot trucking with his 6.5 vehicle in northern AZ, lots of towing on steep grades, and lots of experience with cooling and turbo issues.

---This number (referring to the previous post) is what I tried from a measured Trailblazer SS EV clutch fan in place and hood closed on a Trailblazer SS. That fan at 10,000 CFM does not have enough pitch for a 6.5 while towing thus doesn't move enough air. I tried and was heating up with the AC on pulling a decent grade. The 19" steel fan and Duramax fans move a lot more air in the 6.5's RPM range. We also have thicker radiators than the Trailblazer SS and this would affect the CFM number if I measured it on one of our trucks.

Is he using AC? What part of the country or what is the summer temps? Planned use: DD or off road rock crawler?

I would suggest using the biggest radiator that fits. Factory footprint and a thicker radiator. Gas HP radiator ratings are worthless for a precup in head diesel that has 2" radiator hoses vs. 1.25" gas engine hoses... Airflow in CFM and radiator thickness make a difference as separate variables. Lots of CFM with a thin radiator won't cool you off like found in a Stock Trailblazer SS. In our case (6.5's) we don't have enough CFM but plenty of radiator thickness.

Going off road through deep water electrics can be turned off. I would look for some 2005+ 1500 Chevy fans or Ford Taurus/ Lincoln full size car electrics. Electrics I wouldn't mess with unless you have to. CFM just isn't high enough and electrical issues/problems including needing a big alternator always come up. Good fans draw nearly the same juice as the glow plugs.

My preference is to use the 19" steel clutch fan and build a shroud for it as well as single t-stat HO water pump. 21" only if it will fit.

To reduce the heat kept in the engine exhaust work is needed including a better turbo than GM gives us. The turbo makes a big difference in cooling needs.---

Here's another short one from GA.

---I have a Suburban and I don't even use a fan most of the year.---

Going by these posts, would there be enough room between the fan and the rad to use the three core aluminum rad with the stock 6.5 fan? Or even better than the stock 6.5 fan would be the 21" DMax fan found in 01 to 05 GM DMaxpickups and in some of the 06 to 10 GM vans. The DMax fan, which moves way more air than the 6.5 fan, would require upgrading to a fan clutch from a 97 -99 6.5. The fan clutches up to 96 had six bolts holding the fan to the clutch. From 97 and on up into the Dmax fans the clutch has four bolts holding the fan on.

An even better upgrade, if you have the funds to do so, would be to go to the balanced flow water pump found on the 2000 model year 6.5. This would require changing to the 2000 fan clutch as the balanced flow pump has a thread-on fitting for the fan clutch.

Another thing that will help with cooling and not yet even talked about, an aftermarket turbo. The GM4 turbo that is on that 94 has no flat spots or lag at low RPM. But, once you get above about 2500 it runs out of breath. There are some other turbos available out there that have been proven to reduce back pressure and improve higher RPM performance, MPG, and towing ability. The guy from AZ doing hotshot deliveries in northern AZ went to a specific turbo and improved his towing MPG and speed/towing capabilities on the steep grades there.

Don

 

[cruiser guy]

I totally missed the turboed Ford diesel in your signature line. I sure hope I didn't offend you with my DI/IDI post. I apologize if I did. It sounds like you have a good knowledge of some of the weaknesses of the 6.5. I did read this thread as you posted, but I'm going to have to re-read so I can refresh my feeble memory. Having the cold air intake will be a big plus as long as it's big enough to not cause a restriction. Also, having the three inch downpipe and four inch straight piped exhaust puts you way ahead of the game. I searched on the truckstop forum for any CFM number, unsuccessfully. I then started a thread asking for info on the fan CFM. I'll copy over to here some of the replies I got. The first one is from a guy in West Jordan, Utah, not very far from you. He runs a lifted 97 Chevy K2500, and it sounds like he's done a lot of special work on it. It sounds like he does good until he tows, or gets into slow driving in the rough stuff. ---I have been running dual electrics on my rig. Flex-a-lite. They pull 5000 CFM combined. I have no problems running the ac or driving around town or highway. Its gotten hot climbing really steep grades going slow (5,000 to 10,000 ft in 5 miles) and towing up canyons. Other than that I love the freed up power with the clutch fan off. Since I switched turbos it has only helped the truck run colder and I see even less cooling issues.--- Here's a short one with a CFM number. ---10,000 is what I've read on here. never seen any numbers anywhere else--- Here's another from a guy who does hotshot trucking with his 6.5 vehicle in northern AZ, lots of towing on steep grades, and lots of experience with cooling and turbo issues. ---This number (referring to the previous post) is what I tried from a measured Trailblazer SS EV clutch fan in place and hood closed on a Trailblazer SS. That fan at 10,000 CFM does not have enough pitch for a 6.5 while towing thus doesn't move enough air. I tried and was heating up with the AC on pulling a decent grade. The 19" steel fan and Duramax fans move a lot more air in the 6.5's RPM range. We also have thicker radiators than the Trailblazer SS and this would affect the CFM number if I measured it on one of our trucks. Is he using AC? What part of the country or what is the summer temps? Planned use: DD or off road rock crawler? I would suggest using the biggest radiator that fits. Factory footprint and a thicker radiator. Gas HP radiator ratings are worthless for a precup in head diesel that has 2" radiator hoses vs. 1.25" gas engine hoses... Airflow in CFM and radiator thickness make a difference as separate variables. Lots of CFM with a thin radiator won't cool you off like found in a Stock Trailblazer SS. In our case (6.5's) we don't have enough CFM but plenty of radiator thickness. Going off road through deep water electrics can be turned off. I would look for some 2005+ 1500 Chevy fans or Ford Taurus/ Lincoln full size car electrics. Electrics I wouldn't mess with unless you have to. CFM just isn't high enough and electrical issues/problems including needing a big alternator always come up. Good fans draw nearly the same juice as the glow plugs. My preference is to use the 19" steel clutch fan and build a shroud for it as well as single t-stat HO water pump. 21" only if it will fit. To reduce the heat kept in the engine exhaust work is needed including a better turbo than GM gives us. The turbo makes a big difference in cooling needs.--- Here's another short one from GA. ---I have a Suburban and I don't even use a fan most of the year.--- Going by these posts, would there be enough room between the fan and the rad to use the three core aluminum rad with the stock 6.5 fan? Or even better than the stock 6.5 fan would be the 21" DMax fan found in 01 to 05 GM DMaxpickups and in some of the 06 to 10 GM vans. The DMax fan, which moves way more air than the 6.5 fan, would require upgrading to a fan clutch from a 97 -99 6.5. The fan clutches up to 96 had six bolts holding the fan to the clutch. From 97 and on up into the Dmax fans the clutch has four bolts holding the fan on. An even better upgrade, if you have the funds to do so, would be to go to the balanced flow water pump found on the 2000 model year 6.5. This would require changing to the 2000 fan clutch as the balanced flow pump has a thread-on fitting for the fan clutch. Another thing that will help with cooling and not yet even talked about, an aftermarket turbo. The GM4 turbo that is on that 94 has no flat spots or lag at low RPM. But, once you get above about 2500 it runs out of breath. There are some other turbos available out there that have been proven to reduce back pressure and improve higher RPM performance, MPG, and towing ability. The guy from AZ doing hotshot deliveries in northern AZ went to a specific turbo and improved his towing MPG and speed/towing capabilities on the steep grades there. Don

wow thanks don for all the info! I know it's a pain to research this you have been loads of help and don't worry you didn't offend me with your IDI / DI speech I have given it plenty of times myself when people look in disbelief that there is such thing as an idi. So what I have gathered is DO NOT pull out my 6.5 rad? Also to mention I have a harness I made and wired for a aux electric fan I put in the front of the rad to help the mechanical fan, it's a 1800 cfm pusher I had it on for my race SBC do you think this will do more then enough cooling? I have it wired for on and off and to turn on at a certain temp before it gets too toasty. It's a 3 throw switch

 

[handcannon]

You already have the 6.5 rad mounted, and it looks real good in there. This is the cooler part of the year, I think you'll be good running that for a while. That will give you time to work the bugs out of the conversion and to see how the initial cooling will do. Then, as the weather warms up you'll be able to concentrate on the cooling, if anything is needed.

Don

 

[cruiser guy]

You already have the 6.5 rad mounted, and it looks real good in there. This is the cooler part of the year, I think you'll be good running that for a while. That will give you time to work the bugs out of the conversion and to see how the initial cooling will do. Then, as the weather warms up you'll be able to concentrate on the cooling, if anything is needed. Don

thanks for the help don. I agree with that and towing wise it will never see a trailer behind it. That's what my truck is for so it will only see camping gear. As for mechanical or electrically controlled I think it's safe to safe it's a great idea to go to mechanical wouldn't you agree?

 

[handcannon]

I think you'd be way ahead of the game by going to a mechanical IP. It would be much simpler to wire in the motor and get it running. You wouldn't have to wire in the ECM or the drive-by-wire throttle. The wastegate would need to be converted to mechanical. But this would free up the vacuum pump to operate your existing vacuum brake canister. Also, no PMD to create problems.

Don

 

[cruiser guy]

I think you'd be way ahead of the game by going to a mechanical IP. It would be much simpler to wire in the motor and get it running. You wouldn't have to wire in the ECM or the drive-by-wire throttle. The wastegate would need to be converted to mechanical. But this would free up the vacuum pump to operate your existing vacuum brake canister. Also, no PMD to create problems. Don

I guess the waste gate brings more problems to figure out. Could I just wire that one shut and set up a blow off valve?

 

[cruiser guy]

I feel lame I haven't worked on it in days and days but unfortunately we all know how life goes as I am trying to get a new job between hospital visits and fixing other peoples vehicles

 

[handcannon]

Actually, converting the wastegate to mechanical is easy. You can buy a turbomaster from Heath Diesel in Ellensburg, WA, or with a bit of fabbing and experimenting with spring tension you can make one for real cheap. I found a couple diesel threads that talk about the turbomaster, then I found a youtube video explaning how he made his own turbomaster. If you do a homemade turbomaster a boost gauge is a MUST as boost pressure has to kept under control.

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?39067-turbomaster&highlight=turbomaster

http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/sh...ump-delete-or-not/page2&highlight=turbomaster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hko8nef8j4

I also came across a craigslist ad for an 89 FJ60 with a 6.5TD in it. I thought you might be interested in the pics, and maybe call the guy for info as he kept the stock 60 series radiator.

1989 FJ62 Landcruiser w/ Chevy 6.5t Diesel

Don

 

[cruiser guy]

Actually, converting the wastegate to mechanical is easy. You can buy a turbomaster from Heath Diesel in Ellensburg, WA, or with a bit of fabbing and experimenting with spring tension you can make one for real cheap. I found a couple diesel threads that talk about the turbomaster, then I found a youtube video explaning how he made his own turbomaster. If you do a homemade turbomaster a boost gauge is a MUST as boost pressure has to kept under control. http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?39067-turbomaster&highlight=turbomaster http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?35282-to-turbomaster-and-vac-pump-delete-or-not/page2&highlight=turbomaster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hko8nef8j4 I also came across a craigslist ad for an 89 FJ60 with a 6.5TD in it. I thought you might be interested in the pics, and maybe call the guy for info as he kept the stock 60 series radiator. 1989 FJ62 Landcruiser w/ Chevy 6.5t Diesel Don

thanks don! I have probably been a pain for you but you have helped me out more then you could imagine. I have a pyro boost and water temp gauge and a tripod for the cruiser I also think boost and pyro are a must for any turbo. I will order the one from Heath diesel here soon mechanical is already making my life easier. I will get some work done tomorrow and Sunday!

 

[handcannon]

I'm going to have to go back to the beginning of this thread and read it all over again. My memory is not working so I must refresh things in my mind. Since you've mentioned having some gauges I can barely remember seeing a pic of a pillar pod.

And, no you have not been a pain. I'm sold on the 6.5 and 6.2. They are in the range of diesels that I can barely afford, and I know I'm not the only one in that situation. I bought my current 1994 K2500 6.5TD for $400 as a rebuilder, replaced some of the frontend sheet metal, spent a lot of time learning about that diesel, and now have a pickup that I truly enjoy. I want to see others who are willing to consider the 6.5 and 6.2 be successful with their project. That means doing what I can to help them be aware of the weaknesses, and the aftermarket fixes that I've learned about for the 6.5 and 6.2.

Don

 

[cruiser guy]

Hopefully I will work on it tomorrow! I got all my bearings to rebuild my ranger overdrive so it would be nice to get the whole setup up under the rig and new x member mounts welded in!