FJ60 Brake Booster options (2 Viewers)

[itsaverage]

I just bought a 60 and the brakes are ass. I’ve bled them three times and they’re still disgusting. I will continue flushing them until they’re clean. With that, I’m fairly certain my booster is shot as it’s the original so I’m gonna replace it. Would there be any benefit for me replacing the master cylinder, calipers, rotors, and wheel cylinders while I’m at it?

Also, are 4 runner calipers better than the LC calipers I can buy from O’reillys?

 

[cps432]

I just bought a 60 and the brakes are ass. I’ve bled them three times and they’re still disgusting. I will continue flushing them until they’re clean. With that, I’m fairly certain my booster is shot as it’s the original so I’m gonna replace it. Would there be any benefit for me replacing the master cylinder, calipers, rotors, and wheel cylinders while I’m at it?

Replacing 30+ year old brake parts is always a good idea. I replaced everything all at once including the soft lines. When one component starts to fail the others are likely soon to follow. I personally don’t feel comfortable risking my life with old parts when brand new/remanufactured/upgraded parts are readily available. I got all my parts from rockauto and I haven’t had any issues with stopping since. I’ve even driven cross country twice overloaded with weight.

If I recall, the 4Runner calipers are a little beefier than the cruiser ones, but don’t quote me on that. It’s been 5-6 years and I forget why I went with them. Maybe price? Maybe availability? Either way, they work and I’m happy and feel safe driving.

 

[itsaverage]

Replacing 30+ year old brake parts is always a good idea. I replaced everything all at once including the soft lines. When one component starts to fail the others are likely soon to follow. I personally don’t feel comfortable risking my life with old parts when brand new/remanufactured/upgraded parts are readily available. I got all my parts from rockauto and I haven’t had any issues with stopping since. I’ve even driven cross country twice overloaded with weight.

If I recall, the 4Runner calipers are a little beefier than the cruiser ones, but don’t quote me on that. It’s been 5-6 years and I forget why I went with them. Maybe price? Maybe availability? Either way, they work and I’m happy and feel safe driving.

Do you remember what year 4Runner calipers they were? It seems like 93-98 should work.

 

[cps432]

Do you remember what year 4Runner calipers they were? It seems like 93-98 should work.

That’s correct. I think I looked up 96 when I did mine.

 

[4runner2FJ60]

I think the 4runner caliper has two large pistons. The OE LC caliper has a big and a small piston.

 

[itsaverage]

I think the 4runner caliper has two large pistons. The OE LC caliper has a big and a small piston.

Okay, and the calipers and pads are obviously the same for both?

 

[POPO AGIE]

I think the 4runner caliper has two large pistons. The OE LC caliper has a big and a small piston.

The Origningal calipers that came on the 78 all 4 pistons are the same size. I used remans for the rear axle and going with a big brake kit on the front that has been delivered with the new booster, and FJ80 master cylinder.

 

[g-man]

I put the 94 four runner booster in but apparently it was just the nipple and NOT a check valve. I thought the check valve might be behind the housing due to the imprint and the way it was stamped. When I pumped the brakes up and turned on the engine...the pedal ROSE up instead of sinking! So now I pulled the check valve out of the old one, confirmed it worked and rigged it up in the vacuum line. Now the pedal sinks but has a big lag. Maybe 10 or 15 seconds before it starts to go down. I probably added another foot of soft line (3/8 brake line I believe) I wonder if the extra space in the vacuum line is causing this.

At any rate the brakes still seem to respond sluggishly. I've bled them and replaced the front pads. Each wheel will spin free in neutral and the brakes are actuating and grapping all 4 wheels when I test them one at a time by jacking up the truck and spinning them by hand with someone on the pedal. The pedal is NOT spongy so I don't think it's air in the lines.

Oriellys say they have a reman'd booster for my 87 land cruiser or at least in their computer system they do. I will check with them tomorrow and see if they actually have it in the warehouse and coming to the store.

 

[cps432]

I put the 94 four runner booster in but apparently it was just the nipple and NOT a check valve. I thought the check valve might be behind the housing due to the imprint and the way it was stamped. When I pumped the brakes up and turned on the engine...the pedal ROSE up instead of sinking! So now I pulled the check valve out of the old one, confirmed it worked and rigged it up in the vacuum line. Now the pedal sinks but has a big lag. Maybe 10 or 15 seconds before it starts to go down. I probably added another foot of soft line (3/8 brake line I believe) I wonder if the extra space in the vacuum line is causing this.

At any rate the brakes still seem to respond sluggishly. I've bled them and replaced the front pads. Each wheel will spin free in neutral and the brakes are actuating and grapping all 4 wheels when I test them one at a time by jacking up the truck and spinning them by hand with someone on the pedal. The pedal is NOT spongy so I don't think it's air in the lines.

Oriellys say they have a reman'd booster for my 87 land cruiser or at least in their computer system they do. I will check with them tomorrow and see if they actually have it in the warehouse and coming to the store.

That’s odd. Did you use 3/8 brake line or fuel line? I imagine they would both be impermeable, but I have had no issues with mine using fuel hose. I wonder if the booster you received is defective in some way?

 

[g-man]

I put a new (Read flexible and pliable) 3/8 fuel line about almost 2 feet. the nipple is in the 5 oclock position and points out. No way to rotate it. So I had the soft line going up and over the booster. Now I have it connected to the u shaped hard line that mounts to the booster. But that really didn't buy me any real estate...I still have about the same amount of hose. The one way valve is on the drivers side of the booster and is about 8 inches or so from the nipple going into the booster.

My rear brakes were redone a few years ago with new brake cylinders, shoes, springs etc. At that time the drums were still in spec. My front calipers are OLD...maybe original but they are working and not leaking. My Master cylinder is afermarket and looks the same as OEM and probably about 5 years old and was bled when I installed it.

The brake fluid that came out of the rear brake bleeders was colored like black coffee. But now after taking probably 5 or 6 ounces out of each the color is more like green tea. Not as light as what comes out of the brake fluid bottle but much better.

I'm starting to think that I need to check the vacuum (with a vacuum gauge) coming off the intake nipple that goes to the booster. Maybe even unscrew it and make sure it's clear. I guess a healthy engine should pull about 18psi at the port.

 

[cps432]

I put a new (Read flexible and pliable) 3/8 fuel line about almost 2 feet. the nipple is in the 5 oclock position and points out. No way to rotate it. So I had the soft line going up and over the booster. Now I have it connected to the u shaped hard line that mounts to the booster. But that really didn't buy me any real estate...I still have about the same amount of hose. The one way valve is on the drivers side of the booster and is about 8 inches or so from the nipple going into the booster.

My rear brakes were redone a few years ago with new brake cylinders, shoes, springs etc. At that time the drums were still in spec. My front calipers are OLD...maybe original but they are working and not leaking. My Master cylinder is afermarket and looks the same as OEM and probably about 5 years old and was bled when I installed it.

The brake fluid that came out of the rear brake bleeders was colored like black coffee. But now after taking probably 5 or 6 ounces out of each the color is more like green tea. Not as light as what comes out of the brake fluid bottle but much better.

I'm starting to think that I need to check the vacuum (with a vacuum gauge) coming off the intake nipple that goes to the booster. Maybe even unscrew it and make sure it's clear. I guess a healthy engine should pull about 18psi at the port.

I think don’t recall having a check valve in my setup… I’ll need to go pop my hood and check. If I recall I looked up parts for a 96 four runner just to make sure I was right in the middle of the suggested year model compatibility. Perhaps I have a check valve and never noticed it? I’m curious now….

You might benefit from a total flush if you had black fluid in your system and it’s still tea colored. Brake fluid is hygroscopic and has a lifespan of about two years once it’s been opened to the elements. If it’s black it’s almost certainly got water in it. If it’s got water in it the water will compress as you add pressure to the system. Maybe that’s all you’re experiencing?

 

[g-man]

Called Oriellys this morning and it appears their 87 land cruiser brake booster is in fact mythical...ie "not in stock right now". So, I'm back to the drawing board. I'll check my vacuum this morning at the intake port and go from there. It seems like I have a lag in the vacuum boost. When driving down my road at around 25mph braking hard...car moves about 3 car lengths then around 4 of 5 seconds into braking the booster kicks in and the pedal drops and the brakes grab...like they should the second I push down on the pedal. I'm pretty positive I have the booster adjusted right. I used the H tool and set the gap at zero ...ie touching between the booster and the master cylinder. And measured the shaft coming out of the booster on the pedal side so the nut is same distance from the booster body that the original was.

 

[g-man]

There is some play in the pedal arm travel between the brake switch stop and the booster fork. Not much but it is a little loose. Should I just extend the fork out further and get it more snug pushing the pedal arm tighter against the tail light stop switch? That way when I push down on the pedal maybe the booster will engage sooner? I set the nut before the fork at about 4.25 inches from the booster body the same way the old booster was. I did this on a bench with both of them out of the vehicle.

 

[g-man]

I'll go through the pedal adjustments today and see if it helps.

these:

 

[g-man]

My pedal was pretty low. About 5.75 inches from the carpet to the top of the pedal. I adjusted it up to 6.25 which is probably right when you take into account the carpet thickness. Can't get much more anyway because the threads on the rod are unthreading from the clevis fork and there's not much there. It may have 3 threads up into the fork. Anyway the pedal height seems right now and is even or slightly higher than the clutch pedal. Still the brakes aren't grabbing like I want. Pedal feels a bit hard and taking 2 or 3 car lengths to slow to a stop at 25 mph.

I checked the vacumm on the intake and it was around 17psi while idling at 6500 rpms. I sprayed carb cleaner around the booster hose connections and around the port on the intake and my engine didn't rev up so no leaks there.

 

[g-man]

Does the brake rod need to be adjusted if swapping an 80 or 4runner booster in? If just replacing stock for stock, are any adjustments necessary?

Yes, the rod on the outside needs to be adjusted to flush up to the inside bore of the master cylinder. For this use the H tool pictured earlier in the thread. The pedal rod...that connects to the pedal will also have to be adjusted. First on the bench to get the clevis fork and nut close. Then again when doing the brake pedal adjustments after the booster is installed. There is no stock replacement for the booster. NLA from toyota and I have not found any reman'd units after checking Orielly's, Advanced Auto, and Rockauto. So there is no replacing stock for stock unless you are replacing with a 35 year old used part. (not recommended) Even then I would still do the pedal adjustments. The pedal adjustments are posted above and are in the 84-90 Chassis and Body FSM in the brake section.

 

[g-man]

Drove around a bit more today. Pedal seems stiff at first then after a second it starts to sink as the vacuum booster kicks in and THEN it grabs. It's like there is a bit of a lag in the booster kicking in. I did check my freeplay and it's in spec. I may try to move my inline check valve closer to the booster. Not sure what else I can do. Pretty sure the booster is my problem.

 

[g-man]

I replaced my check valve for one with some better air flow. This helped lessen the time the pedal goes from hard at the top to boost kicking in and pedal sinking and grabbing. If I feather the brakes before pushing for the stop I'm fine. But no way are they going to lock up if I slam on them. Passed inspection anyway. Still I'm thinking a better booster/check valve would help.

 

[cps432]

I replaced my check valve for one with some better air flow. This helped lessen the time the pedal goes from hard at the top to boost kicking in and pedal sinking and grabbing. If I feather the brakes before pushing for the stop I'm fine. But no way are they going to lock up if I slam on them. Passed inspection anyway. Still I'm thinking a better booster/check valve would help.

You really don’t want your brakes locking up. You loose control when that happens and the vehicle becomes unruly. You want your brakes to slow you to a stop. Today’s modern vehicles have complex anti-lock brake systems for a reason. That’s the point I was making earlier in this thread. Many accidents occur when brakes lock up and the tires overcome the friction between the road allowing the vehicle to go wherever Issac Newton decides.

 

[g-man]

You really don’t want your brakes locking up. You loose control when that happens and the vehicle becomes unruly. You want your brakes to slow you to a stop. Today’s modern vehicles have complex anti-lock brake systems for a reason. That’s the point I was making earlier in this thread. Many accidents occur when brakes lock up and the tires overcome the friction between the road allowing the vehicle to go wherever Issac Newton decides.

I hear ya. I just don't like that it's got a hard and sort of non responsive feel at the top of the pedal. I'd like it to immediately start to sink and start to grab.