FJ60 A/C and overheat help (1 Viewer)

[asmodion]

Hi Folks,

Last winter I purchased a 1987 fj60 from a member of these forums... had it shipped across country (after sending mobile inspection service to look at it), and been trying to enjoy it since. Shortly after she arrived I noticed that engine performance was significantly poorer than when it arrived - one thing lead to another and I discovered that at least 1 cylinder of the chevy 350 had bad rings/piston walls, and was massively burning oil and fouling plugs. I have since had a brand new crate 383 stroker dropped into it to which the garage bolted all the existing accessories (200amp alternator, compressor, edelbrock fuel injection + manifold). They said to me after the motor install "hey this AC doesn't seem to come on, what gives, was it ever working before?"... Turns out the compressor wasn't ever connected to the factory AC button. So at this point in the saga I have no A/C (it's not hooked up) but I have a brand new 345hp/415ft/lb 383 stroker, and it _rocks_. Next problem that came up was heat... the existing setup was not sufficient to cool the new motor. I got a new 3 core aluminum radiator from CruiserCorps, and a flex-a-lite Syclone puller fan. This helps, but she still runs hot. Fan comes on at 195, thermostat pops at 180. In the meantime I hooked up a relay to the factory A/C button, and now the clutch engages on the compressor ... Checked and charged the refrigerant, and it blows reasonably cold, but causes the heat level to go uncomfortably high (over 230).

At this point I have a couple of planned actions -
1. install a 10" pusher fan in front of the condenser
2. fabricate an aluminum shroud for the puller fan (it's bolted right to the radiator frame right now, about 1/2" away from contacting the core fins) - pretty sure I'm losing a lot of puller efficiency the way it's setup now.
3. clean or possibly replace the condenser core
4. maybe replace hardline in the front of the condenser core (make room for more fans)

So... today I take the truck out for a quick spin and turn on the A/C. 60 seconds later a loud pop and hiss, and smoke starts spilling out of the dash. Pull her over and find that something on the back side of the compressor erupted refrigerant all over the place.

So I'm looking for advice - I have no experience with A/C systems - I have rebuilt pretty much every part of my 72 V8 FJ40 so I'm not helpless mechanically speaking - but it has no A/C... and I'm not (yet) intimately familiar with the FJ60.

Should I take this opportunity (since the system is now presumably empty) to replace the condenser and possibly the hard-line that runs across from the driver side to the passenger side (make room for another pusher fan if I need it)? If so, where do I source a new one? As for the line I found a thread here discussing a non-rigid replacement that could be made, but open to options there as well. Is it worth having the neck on the condenser cut off and welded back on at a 90 degree angle to free up more space for fans?

What blew off on the back of my compressor? It's an AC Delco 1134344 (you can see in the video). Should this be replaced or is it likely a high pressure line failed? Do they have some kind of blow-off mechanism?

So - here it's pushing September and I've got about 8k into a truck that still has issues - which I paid a _lot_ for. I guess this also serves as a warning to others - mobile car inspection isn't sufficient to ensure you don't get screwed. Still needs TRE's, clutch master/slave, etc. Priority is on the heat issues and fixing the A/C for now (moving to Florida).

Any help appreciated -

Here's a short youtube video of my setup as of right now (pre-shroud and pre-pusher).


Thanks,

Ed

 

[Wile E Coyote]

A well-fit shroud is #1 priority. Forgo plans on any pusher fan until said shroud.
I'm also suspicious of the ability of one average fan to pull enough cfm to cool a massaged V8. What's the specs on this Syclone fan, I'm hoping it's got some serious beans.
You'll need to better ID the failure point on the ac yourself...I'd play close attention to where the GM compressor mates to the toy hoses. I'm curious about this relay you made up to get the compressor to run...wondering if it bypassed the switch that allows for normal on/off cycling. Always on is gonna cause a big issue.

 

[Elbert]

use the appropriate GM clutch radiator fan and the matching GM fan clutch that match the year/model of your GM v8, fabricate fan shroud from there. Use OEM type replacement 4 core radiator. That's the cooling solution on GM V8 Swap.

Is your v8 based on a throttle body 5.7? Post up more pics showing V8 from both sides, pics showing the intake and brackets..on the front of the engine.

 

[JohninFla]

The compressor should cycle on refrigerant pressure, not run all the time. If you just ran a power wire through the relay, and power the clutch to "on" whenever the button is pushed, the compressor likely blew out the connection on the back, where the hoses mount. That is why there is the a/c amp on the stock FJ 60 set up.

I used the stock A/C compressor clutch wire, and let it cycle the extra relay I installed for the clutch. Your stock tach must be hooked up for this to function, but it worked for me.

 

[Elbert]

sounds like your electric fan was not on when the a/c was engaged.....which equates to no air flow across the a/c condenser which equates to high head pressure on the A/C compressor and the resulting safety valve blows... or clearly the current cooling fan is not up to task.

You have to get your cooling 100% addressed...then you start in on A/C. Cooling has to be first order of business.

Electric fans have to be on when the A/C compressor is working else, you got problems.

 

[asmodion]

I believe the fan pulls 2500 cfm, I will double check tomorrow. As for the pusher fan, i got that installed pretty quickly tonight, fabricating the shroud is going to take a while and I hate welding aluminum so probably wait for the weekend. The pusher allegedly reaches 1000 cfm but I am skeptical of that number. As for the motor its a 345hp 415 ft/lb (per dyno sheet), chevy smallblock 383 stroker from blueprint engines. Prior motor was installed by previous owner and I don't know where it came from, but it was a 2 bolt 350, not very high output. As for the compressor failure it sounds a lot like the scenario outlined by Elbert. I looked at it tonight and it appears the bottom part of the back of the compressor housing is where things blew out.. the hose fittings are dry but most of the bottom of the compressor is soaked. So it sounds like I need to dig around the truck and find out how much of the stock A/C components are present. Of note: factory tach is not hooked up... so I guess based on what Johninfla said I cant use the stock A/C amp. How do folks normally setup a smallblock A/C system? I dont see any sensors on any of the lines for pressure, unless they're behind the dash somewhere. It definitely looks like the stock lines though, and from what i can tell its the stock condenser. I had some overheating issues on my fj40 and that was solved by that popular taurus 2 speed fan setup that folks use. My 40 has nowhere near the balls this stroker does, but that might end up being a route to go. The high speed mode on that fan is pretty hardcore, if I can find one and if it will fit. Given that I paid a shop to install this radiator and fan (was in a rush to go camping) I would rather make it work than toss it.

Thanks for all the info folks, if there are any particular pics that will help let me know.

Ed

 

[Wile E Coyote]

Honestly, I'd strongly consider ditching the new pusher and the current puller fans for another taurus/contour setup, or ideally a belt-driven fan and clutch with good shroud OEM style. 2500 cfm is about 2/3rd of the minimal flow you want, that motor with a 3-row rad needs 4000 cfm+ for FL summers and traffic. Those pusher fans can actually block flow if improperly positioned, designed, etc.

 

[asmodion]

Is there a shroud out there that will fit an fj60 dimension radiator with a clutch fan? I have hp to spare so more concerned with airflow.

 

[Wile E Coyote]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-custom-fit-fan-shroud.380196/
Check out this way to approach a custom shroud with picking up a welding torch.

 

[asmodion]

Thanks for the link Mike... sure beats welding up a much less airflow friendly steel or aluminum shroud.

Anybody know how you go about selecting a clutch? Are they somehow rated by what temperature they change viscosity or what? Seems like there are a lot of different clutches available but I don't see anything about the specs to help me with selection.

 

[Postoak]

asmodion I am new to Toyotas but have some experience with SBC swaps into Older Jeeps, my suggestion is to look at OEM Fans and Fans clutches that are compatible with your engine that were used in Truck Applications. Cooling a V8 in a vehicle not originally equipped with one is always a challenge.

If you don't have a Radiator with enough capacity all the fans that you can hang on it and not going to help, you must first select and install enough Radiator, then a proper Fan Shroud, next a fan than fits the shroud.

 

[asmodion]

So, given that my radiator core is 16.25" tall... what fan will work with this? Anybody know what the stock Toyota clutch fan diameter is? I'm going to pick out a clutch fan and thermal clutch combination and give that a shot.

 

[asmodion]

Re: Postoak - I have a 3 row high density aluminum radiator from cruisercorps - dimensions are 16.25" x 23.75" core. Given that with crappy airflow I am still able to operate the truck now, I'm sure that with a clutch fan this radiator is up to the task. I will be building a custom shroud for this, so I need to understand what size fan I can fit behind this radiator. The overall dimensions of this radiator are: 21" Tall x 26 1/4" Wide (Incl Brackets).

 

[Postoak]

S/B fit the shroud to the proper fan. I had much better luck with Belt Driven Fans, than with electric Fans, YMMV of course.

 

[Postoak]

asmodion if you drive at a steady 50-70 MPH on a hot day does the rig overheat ?

 

[Elbert]

You pick the GM fan clutch and fan based on the configuration of your engine. If you post up more pics of your engine...I'm sure someone can tell you that its a 5.7 TBI or other type setup. There are differences between the 5.7 family of engines...brackets/fans/etc....

For example if someone told you and you were able to confirm...its a setup like a 5.7 TBI.... well...then you would go look at a GM pickup from say 1992 on rock auto, then you could see that a 5.7 TBI was the engine offered and can confirm. Based on that you order a GM fan clutch to fit a 1992 5.7 pickup (I would pick the 3/4 ton truck version) and then you could see if you could get the fan as well. GM makes the best fan clutches for GM engines... You might have a issue with the diameter of the fan blade...but that will be a issue you'll have to check into.

Flex-a-lite sells GM style fan clutch fans in different diameters. D

Determine the source or configuration of your 5.7... if custom engine..then you have to look at your waterpump and related brackets to see or start asking (pictures>>>>), then you look for the GM truck or SUV in what year model had that engine, then that will give you a source to start looking for a specific fan clutch or fan. THe fan clutches are different across different years...there is not a one stop solution.

If the option exists...I would get the GM fan clutch, for A/C equipped truck, with HD trailer or towing if that option is available.

You have to figure out what configuration of 5.7 you have first...dont' guess or stab in the dark because you will be chasing you @$$ for some time.

Some folks here can tell you what configuration you have by looking at more detailed pictures of the engine bay if you post those up.


FAN shroud is critical no matter what anyone else says.. Critical for cooling and Critical for A/C operation. Get the radiator fan clutch and fan worked out and then look to have a shroud fabbed up. I'm not aware of a turn key fan shroud solution.

 

[asmodion]

Postoak - no, if I drive steady it remains around 190-200. If I turn the A/C on, it gets hot. If I romp on the gas and get to HP peak (~5k rpm) it gets hot fast. One other thing I didn't mention yet is the winch on the front of the truck which blocks a lot of natural airflow. Here are some pics of the front of the motor.

 

[Postoak]

If you drive at cruising speed and the Temp is acceptable, and turn on the A/C and it gets hot, in my opinion you may have an under sized radiator; or as you just mentioned a serious lack of air flow through the Radiator. If it were mine I would remove the winch and anything else that may be restricting airflow and try and achieve a normal temperature while at cruising speed with the A/C on and then work with the Fan(s).

 

[Elbert]

well...I can tell you that in my view that single fan will never be enough to cool your engine. AT least on the back of the radiator that fan is only covering about 60% or so of the core...so it only pulls air through about 60% of the core. With electric fans you need to have fans that cover the entire radiator core, or they come very close with the help of a shroud (go look at a new GM 1/2 ton pickup with electric fans that are stock. Or look at some other OEM setups...not enough coverage of the core of the radiator as you currently are setup in my view. Read through some of the engine swap threads and the long debates on the use of electric fans on a GM v8 swap. I'll post a pic of what works on my 5.7 vortec based swap, in regard to cooling and running A/C too.

See below my setup for 5.7 vortec....using 1999 GM Pickup for reference with 5.7, GM fan clutch and matching fan. Other fan clutches and fans are specific to model and year of the 5.7 in question.

This is a solution that works...its not a maybe or try this or that. 4 core brass type OEM style radiator, with custom fabbed fan shroud. I've tryed different setup and different fans, to include electric fans etc.

Save yourself some $$ and aggravation...copy something like the below, but specific to your engine year model and version of the 5.7.

 

[Elbert]