Fixable? PS Air Down Could Be a Good Thing

[greentruck]

Yes, the A pillar seems a bit mangled, but the door seems to open and close OK based on what I've heard.

Randy Wilson Trucking pic
The Starlink Mini mount got pushed down into the windshield, but it may not be all that bad across the top of the windshield frame.

Randy Wilson Trucking pic
Guess I should used bigger cables on the limb risers?

Coming down the west side of Stony Pass near Silverton, the road was turning to mush. Was being very careful already having noticed poor braking action on the previous switchbacks after several days of rain and with a full rack, thought I was being careful enough approaching one of the last. Low range of course and under 10 mph.

Google Earth imagery

This was the one that got me.

Google Earth imagery

It came down to a choice of sky or trees. You can see my skid marks - probably the tail end of 200' of them at least - in this pic taken during a lull in the rain about an hour after the accidents as first responders were gathering to assist.

Kevin Fox pic

 

[greentruck]

A brief overview of my predicament, as I was hanging in my seatbelt while they worked to stabilize the truck.

Kevin Fox pic
That tree saved me from a full roll - and probably many more - but did crunchify the LX a bit.

After close to 2 hours, the firemen aided Silverton Medical Rescue in cutting away the crosssbars on the rack over the moonroof, broke out the glass, then cut the seatbelt to release me from my numbing wait for the spider to return for her dinner. I was unhurt, but they hauled me off to Montrose to be checked out.

Pic from Silverton Medical Rescue Instagram
I was fortunate, both in terms off not getting hurt and in experiencing the kindness of so many.

Anyway, truck will be back here in about a week and I can do a better evaluation of how to fix her, i hope. My overall take-away safety-wise is don't hesitate to air down. I was planning on getting to someplace dry just over the Utah border. The truck climbed well enough with the new Eaton e-Locker in the rear, but I could have used the larger contact patch that airing down would have provided for braking, as that might have prevented this... Comments? Questions?

 

[White Stripe]

Glad your ok. Ive straightened a pillars before with a frame machine, its not that hard to do. The exterior crushed or dented metal on the a pillar will likely need to be cut out and new metal welded in. Removing the headliner, a pillar trims, and dash pad would probably aid the body shop and save some labor costs.

 

[greentruck]

Glad your ok. Ive straightened a pillars before with a frame machine, its not that hard to do. The exterior crushed or dented metal on the a pillar will likely need to be cut out and new metal welded in. Removing the headliner, a pillar trims, and dash pad would probably aid the body shop and save some labor costs.

Thanks for the encouraging words. If she ends up with a few scars, that's OK, they were legitimately earned.

 

[White Stripe]

Thanks for the encouraging words. If she ends up with a few scars, that's OK, they were legitimately earned.

So we're the tires locked up and the cruiser just slid down the muddy hill? Or were the brakes unable to lock up?

 

[80t0ylc]

Were you alone in the rig? Traveling with a group? Sounds like a pretty rapid response from first responders! Agree with @White Stripe glad you’re OK!

 

[NeverFinis]

It came down to a choice of sky or trees. You can see my skid marks - probably the tail end of 200' of them at least - in this pic taken during a lull in the rain about an hour after the accidents as first responders were gathering to assist.
View attachment 4015670
Kevin Fox pic

Glad you are okay.

I am trying to wrap my head around losing traction on that surface. Obviously pictures don't give justice to steepness. That grade must be hella steep for you to lose traction like you did, Stones probably acted as marbles.

 

[lelandEOD]

YOUCH!

I'm very glad you are ok.
Thank you for sharing as well. We could all probably use a reminder to stay on top of our game when out wheeling in dangerous country.
I try not to let images of terror and misfortune stray too far from my mind when exploring remote parts of the Nevada outback (especially on my own). This could happen to any one of us.

You'll get her up and running for sure!


P.S. @reklund5 ... ... time for us to get on those big brake upgrades.

 

[reklund5]

YOUCH!

I'm very glad you are ok.
Thank you for sharing as well. We could all probably use a reminder to stay on top of our game when out wheeling in dangerous country.
I try to let images of terror and misfortune stray too far from my mind when exploring remote parts of the Nevada outback (especially on my own). This could happen to any one of us for sure.

You'll get her up and running for sure!


P.S. @reklund5 ... ... time for us to get on those big brake upgrades.

Man, I was thinking the same thing. All this time into rigs...probably time to get the brakes up to snuff. Preferably before my Turbo arrives...

@greentruck glad you're OK! When you can please let us know if this was an 'insufficient brakes' situation or an 'insufficient traction and the tires locked up' situation. From your photo of the skid marks, it sounds like things got soupy and slick....

I've wheeled extensively in the San Juans mountains up there around Silverton and know how steep some of that terrain is. Your vehicle can be put back together much easier than you can. Tis but a scratch!

 

[greentruck]

So we're the tires locked up and the cruiser just slid down the muddy hill? Or were the brakes unable to lock up?

Brakes were locking up, but the road was crumbling underneath them. Same thing happened in the previous switchback approaches, so I was being careful to go slow and take more distance to slow down. as I had a full rack and was well aware of these curves (wasn't my first rodeo on Stony.) This was at the end of the longest stretch between the hairpin turns and near the bottom, so was the wettest is my guess.

 

[greentruck]

Were you alone in the rig? Traveling with a group? Sounds like a pretty rapid response from first responders! Agree with @White Stripe glad you’re OK!

By myself. The cell went somewhere out of reach or sight, but managed to find my iPad as I gathered my wits hanging there. Composed a message, but was just wondering if I had any service yet as I hadn't for most of the previous 48 hours and my Starlink had been down (and was going to be down as you can see from the condition of the mount where was pushed into the windshield by the tree.) About that time, Kevin (who took some of the pics) came along and yelled down to ask if I was OK, which I was except for that seatbelt numbing me up. I think he had a radio and got the 911 thing going.

 

[greentruck]

Glad you are okay.

I am trying to wrap my head around losing traction on that surface. Obviously pictures don't give justice to steepness. That grade must be hella steep for you to lose traction like you did, Stones probably acted as marbles.

Pretty much that was it, aided by the water soaked roadbed underneath. Plus I think the grade steepened as it approached the curve - which did not help.

 

[greentruck]

Man, I was thinking the same thing. All this time into rigs...probably time to get the brakes up to snuff. Preferably before my Turbo arrives...

@greentruck glad you're OK! When you can please let us know if this was an 'insufficient brakes' situation or an 'insufficient traction and the tires locked up' situation. From your photo of the skid marks, it sounds like things got soupy and slick....

I've wheeled extensively in the San Juans mountains up there around Silverton and know how steep some of that terrain is. Your vehicle can be put back together much easier than you can. Tis but a scratch!

Brakes were good. I'd dodged a sheep on the open range the day before. My tech went over them last year and they were as good as I've ever had. Tires were good, too, new all around in April. My failure to air down was a likely place where I could have done better.

Been wheeling the San Juans for half a century (see my avatar) but you can't be too careful, even when you're thinking you're being sufficiently careful. Lesson learned the hard way, even though I already knew it. Someone asked me if I'd done Black Bear, and I said no and don't have any plans to, especially now.

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful and kind comments. It helps.

 

[80t0ylc]

@greentruck Mike, for future wheelin', here's a tip that you may or may not know or have heard of:
4 wheel drive rigs with low range and an automatic tranny, when in low range and take your foot off the gas, (you mentioned you were in low range) even idling when going downhill, that engine, with the gearing of low range, will fight the braking and you'll lock up the tires on slick surfaces when trying to stop or even slow down. You can help that by shifting into neutral when you feel that fight when trying to stop. I'm not saying that that is what happened, but it may have contributed to your situation. I've had to do that at times both on ice and snow and also off road slow gnarly wheelin". That is one reason I prefer a manual tranny for some wheelin' situations. Again, glad you weren't hurt and it was just rig damage.

 

[Woofythewolf]

Running into the tree like that was truly miraculous, it's much easier to fix the A pillar than had it been along the roofline.

A quirk about the ABS system on these that has terrified me on a couple occasions, although I imagine you had the CDL locked and therefore ABS off, and therefore this didn't apply to you:
But for anyone else, on certain surfaces the ABS will lengthen stopping distances by 10x or more. Literally from 10-20ft of "lock the tires and dig right in", to hundreds of feet it seems of fighting the abs brakes while skating across the top of soft sand or gravel slopes. I had a close call once because I was in high range, and immediately went and got a CDL switch so I could disable the ABS the moment I get off pavement.

And probably too late, but you might want to pull the sparkplugs before starting in case a cylinder filled with oil.
I hydrolocked a cheap project SC400 with the starter because of a bad fuel injector due to it sitting before my aquisition, and now I'm paranoid about that kinda stuff. It measured fine checking sparkplug seat to piston top vs the next cylinder (not the right way to do it), but threw the rod 5k miles later. (It was an almost dead battery; it weakly turned over until it tried compressing the fuel which stopped the starter motor. I took the gamble and lost)

 

[greentruck]

@greentruck Mike, for future wheelin', here's a tip that you may or may not know or have heard of:
4 wheel drive rigs with low range and an automatic tranny, when in low range and take your foot off the gas, (you mentioned you were in low range) even idling when going downhill, that engine, with the gearing of low range, will fight the braking and you'll lock up the tires on slick surfaces when trying to stop or even slow down. You can help that by shifting into neutral when you feel that fight when trying to stop. I'm not saying that that is what happened, but it may have contributed to your situation. I've had to do that at times both on ice and snow and also off road slow gnarly wheelin". That is one reason I prefer a manual tranny for some wheelin' situations. Again, glad you weren't hurt and it was just rig damage.

I always prefer a manual for off-roading. Never had anything but that until I got into the 80 series/LX 450. Mr T didn't give his US customers a choice, so it is what it is.

That said, I'm not sure this was an issue here. I'd noticed that the ABS Off light wasn't illuminated the day before and had got under the truck to see if I had a loose harness or something in the transfer case, etc. Everything seemed hooked up. Whether ABS was still on (vs the bulb being iut( is a question in my mind and will bear further investigation. This was also another factor in my cautious approach in addition to the full rack. My brake application was cautious so as to not lock them up, which I think I avoided and it didn't feel like the tranny was fighting the brakes, just kept skittering on the rock/mud mixture rather ineffectively.

Given the steepness of the grade, in this case choosing neutral would have led to brake lockup and the same -
or perhaps worse - result, based on my memory of the seat-of-the-pants feel.

 

[greentruck]

Running into the tree like that was truly miraculous, it's much easier to fix the A pillar than had it been along the roofline.

A quirk about the ABS system on these that has terrified me on a couple occasions, although I imagine you had the CDL locked and therefore ABS off, and therefore this didn't apply to you:
But for anyone else, on certain surfaces the ABS will lengthen stopping distances by 10x or more. Literally from 10-20ft of "lock the tires and dig right in", to hundreds of feet it seems of fighting the abs brakes while skating across the top of soft sand or gravel slopes. I had a close call once because I was in high range, and immediately went and got a CDL switch so I could disable the ABS the moment I get off pavement.

And probably too late, but you might want to pull the sparkplugs before starting in case a cylinder filled with oil.
I hydrolocked a cheap project SC400 with the starter because of a bad fuel injector due to it sitting before my aquisition, and now I'm paranoid about that kinda stuff. It measured fine checking sparkplug seat to piston top vs the next cylinder (not the right way to do it), but threw the rod 5k miles later. (It was an almost dead battery; it weakly turned over until it tried compressing the fuel which stopped the starter motor. I took the gamble and lost)

Yeah, that was my lucky tree in several respects.

See my previous comment about ABS system status. Also will check to see where the CDL was. Pretty sure I had it locked, given conditions climbing the east side of Stony.

Good tip on being cautious about a restart. She was on her side for a day or two before retrieved back to Silverton.

 

[80t0ylc]

I always prefer a manual for off-roading. Never had anything but that until I got into the 80 series/LX 450. Mr T didn't give his US customers a choice, so it is what it is.

That said, I'm not sure this was an issue here. I'd noticed that the ABS Off light wasn't illuminated the day before and had got under the truck to see if I had a loose harness or something in the transfer case, etc. Everything seemed hooked up. Whether ABS was still on (vs the bulb being iut( is a question in my mind and will bear further investigation. This was also another factor in my cautious approach in addition to the full rack. My brake application was cautious so as to not lock them up, which I think I avoided and it didn't feel like the tranny was fighting the brakes, just kept skittering on the rock/mud mixture rather ineffectively.

Given the steepness of the grade, in this case choosing neutral would have led to brake lockup and the same -
or perhaps worse - result, based on my memory of the seat-of-the-pants feel.

Yeah, I was assuming everything was normal as far as the ABS was concerned. When in low range, and you haven’t done the pin seven conversion, CDL is engaged, and ABS is deactivated with a warning light on the dash, if it’s working. That light bulb may be burnt out. If you were fighting the ABS as well as the steep slope, and the mud and slippery conditions – that’s a nightmare… And you lived through it!

 

[alia176]

Oh man, this could've been so much worse Mike. Curious, how did you get the LX back to IN? Did you use Randy Wilson trucking for this shipment? I can't imagine the stress of surviving this, and then having to deal with shipping the LX and flying back home. That's a lot!

Just to clarify, are those your skid marks and is that about the place you went off the trail?

 

[greentruck]

Oh man, this could've been so much worse Mike. Curious, how did you get the LX back to IN? Did you use Randy Wilson trucking for this shipment? I can't imagine the stress of surviving this, and then having to deal with shipping the LX and flying back home. That's a lot!

Just to clarify, are those your skid marks and is that about the place you went off the trail?

View attachment 4016825

Ali, My skid marks are to the left of the "waterway" in the pic above. Here's a wider view where they show more clearly.

Just in front of the responder from SMR with the orange coat is looking downward who is to the left of the white pickup is where my truck is. You can barely see my left front tire sticking up. I cut the curve short to avoid going into the sky and thence onto to the rocks visible to the far right.

I plowed through the grader berm and t-boned the scuffed-up tree on the left, then the truck swung to the right and flopped over onto the tree that kept me from rolling further down the slope.

Randy is a mostly retired trucker who travels between Denver and St Louis to see his offspring. Uship helps him cover fuel costs. It's a great resource, but most bidders want a nice clean vehicle with virtually no contents. Randy was willing to work with me on that, plus is familiar with the Coparts facility. He'd hauled a Land Cruiser to Colorado about a month ago, so knows our sort of folks, too.