"Extinct" TJM T13 Captured! (1 Viewer)

[Markuson]

When are you going to install your new bumper? I'd help you if I wasn't in Oregon. Do you need some help? I'm sure someone on here is close that can lend a hand. What lights have you picked out? A bar, rounds or squares.....looking forward to the post bolt on shot!

I appreciate the thought.

Even if able bodied right now, it is quite a complicated project, plus needing to adjust preload on shocks...installing winch mounts & winch...lights...wheel alignment...wiring winch and light switches. It's quite a lot.

About lighting Q... I really want to keep my main driving lights at the bumper level (below eye level as opposed to roofline). Which to go with is tough. The ARBs are fantastic and solid as can be, but CRAZY expensive. I'm on a limited budget, but I'm also a huge lighting fan and am used to incredibly good visibility during aggressive night mountain biking on tricky trails.

I posted a new thread asking for comparisons with them vs. cheaper alternatives (Chinese alternatives are seemingly limitless in variety...). ...So I'm not sure.

I might break down and hit the road to Slee to get my rear bumper and TJM front done in one fell swoop. Would do me good to get away after being cooped up sooooo long, and I think I could physically swing it. I had a very bad experience with a local shop on suspension, and there aren't many alternatives here... I'll definitely post as things move along though.

Thanks again.

 

[steenh]

That's interesting... in Georgia we can legally change by just 2"... I can tell you for sure that is one law that is NEVER enforced. We have plenty of HS kids in 12" lifted trucks. Was really surprised to see that law. In Atlanta, we have a ton of urban wannabe hillbillies, and real ones outside of Atlanta.

M,

I've posted this a few times.. But for those that do not know their state regs on bumper height restrictions.

J


Alabama

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

Alaska

Modifications of original vehicle bumper height are permitted. Maximum frame height: 24 inches up to 4,500 lbs. GVWR; 26 inches for 4,501 to 7,500 lbs. GVWR; and 28 inches for 7,501 to 10,000 lbs. GVWR.

Arizona

Modification of original vehicle bumper is permitted.

Arkansas

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

California

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted. Maximum frame height: 23 inches for passenger vehicles.

Colorado

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

Connecticut

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted, up to 4 inches from manufacturer’s original height for passenger vehicle, up to 30 inches above roadway for commercial vehicle.

Delaware

No passenger vehicle or station wagon shall be registered or operated upon any highway of the state if the bumper height exceeds 22 inches from the ground to the bottom of the bumper.

District of Columbia

Modification of original bumper height is permitted.

Florida

Maximum bumper heights are as follows:

Vehicles with a net weight of less than 2,500 lbs: 22 inches.

Vehicles with a net weight between 2,500 lbs. and 3,500 lbs: front bumper, 24 inches; rear bumper, 26 inches.

Vehicles with a net weight of 3,500 lbs. or more: front bumper, 27 inches; rear bumper, 29 inches.

Georgia

Modification of original vehicle bumper height or altering suspension system is illegal if altered more than 2 inches above or below factory recommendations.

Hawaii

The maximum bumper height for passenger vehicles is 22 inches; for vehicles with a GVWR of 4,500 lbs. and under, 29 inches; for vehicles with a GVWR of 4,501 to 7,500 lbs., 33 inches; for vehicles with a GVWR of 7,501 to 10,000 lbs., 35 inches.

Idaho

Maximum bumper heights are determined by vehicle class and the GVWR. As such, the maximum heights are:

• Passenger cars, front: 22 inches; rear: 22 inches.
• Trucks and multipurpose vehicles, front: 24 inches; rear: 26 inches.
• Vehicles from 4,501 to 7,500 lbs. GVWR, front: 27 inches; rear: 29 inches.
• Vehicles from 7,501 to 10,000 lbs. GVWR, front: 28 inches; rear: 30 inches.
• 4-wheel drive or dual-wheel vehicles with a 10,000 lbs. or less GVWR, front: 30 inches; rear: 31 inches.

Illinois

The maximum bumper height on all motor vehicles except multipurpose passenger vehicles is 28 inches for the front bumper and 30 inches for the rear bumper, measured from the road surface.

Indiana

A passenger vehicle that was originally equipped with a standard bumper must have a bumper when operated on a highway. The height of the bumper cannot vary more than 3 inches from the original manufactured bumper height.

Iowa

Modification of bumper height is permitted.

Kansas

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

Kentucky

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted, provided Driver’s vision is not obscured.

Louisiana

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

Maine

Modification of original vehicle frame height permitted. Maximum frame height for vehicles up to 4,500 lbs is 24 inches in the front and 26 inches in the rear. Lift blocks and spring shackle extensions are prohibited. Door height limits apply.

Maryland

A person may not operate a vehicle on any highway if the height of the vehicle’s bumpers exceed:

• 20 inches for passenger vehicles;
• 28 inches for multipurpose vehicles and trucks with GVW of 10,000 lbs. or less;
• 30 inches for trucks with a GVW exceeding 10,000 lbs.; or
• 32 inches for trucks used for spraying agricultural crops.

A bumper may not be modified or extended upward or downward to compensate for vehicle suspension or body alterations or modifications.

Massachusetts

No person shall alter, modify, or change the height of a motor vehicle with an original manufacturer’s GVWR of up to and including 10,000 lbs., by elevating or lowering the chassis or body by more than 2 inches above or below the manufacturer’s specified height.

Michigan

A passenger car shall not have a frame height that exceeds 12 inches or a bumper height that exceeds 22 inches. A pickup truck or sport utility vehicle cannot exceed the following: up to 4,500 GVWR – 24-inch frame height, 26-inch bumper height; 4,501 to 7,500 GVWR – 24-inch frame height, 28-inch bumper height; 7,501 to 10,000 GVWR – 26-inch frame height, 30-inch bumper height.

All trucks or sport utility vehicles having an increased suspension must be equipped with a bumper on both the front and rear of the vehicle.

Minnesota

The maximum bumper height (measured from the bottom of the bumper to the ground) for any passenger automobile or station wagon is 20 inches.

The maximum bumper height of any 4-wheel drive multipurpose vehicle, van, or pickup truck is 25 inches.

Mississippi

Modification of original vehicle bumper height cannot exceed 8 inches total lift with a maximum of 6-inch suspension lift front and rear.

Missouri

Bumper are required. The maximum bumper height for passenger vehicles is 22 inches.

Montana

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

Nebraska

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

Nevada

The maximum bumper height for a passenger car is 24 inches.

New Hampshire

The height of a bumper of a private passenger vehicle must be between 16 and 20 inches from the ground.

The height of a bumper of any vehicle other than a private passenger vehicle must be between 16 and 30 inches from the ground.

New Jersey

Bumpers shall be mounted at a height that meets manufacturer’s specifications.

New Mexico

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

New York

No person shall operate a motor vehicle with a model year of 1999 or after, except a motorcycle or special purpose commercial vehicle granted an exception by the DMV, which is so constructed that the body has a clearance at the front end more than 30 inches from the ground when empty, unless the front end is equipped with bumpers or devices so located that (a) some part of the bumper or device must be at least 16 but not more than 30 inches above the ground with the vehicle empty; (b) the maximum distance between the closest points between the bumpers or devices, if more than 1 is used does not exceed 24 inches; (c) the maximum trans-verse distance from the widest part of the motor vehicle at the front to the bumper or device shall not exceed 18 inches; and (d) the bumpers or devices shall be substantially constructed and firmly attached.

North Carolina

The manufacturer’s specified bumper height of any passenger motor vehicle shall not be elevated or lowered more than 6 inches in the front or back of the vehicle, without prior written approval from the DMV.

North Dakota

The maximum bumper height permitted is 27 inches measured from a level ground surface to the highest point on the bottom of the bumper.

Ohio

The minimum bumper height is 4.5 inches in vertical height.

Maximum bumper heights are 22 inches for passenger vehicles, 26 inches for 4,500 lbs. and under GVWR, 29 inches for 4,501 lbs. to 7,500 lbs. GVWR, and 31 inches for 7,501 lbs. to 10,000 lbs. GVWR.

Oklahoma

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted. Note: Headlamps cannot be mounted at a height measured from center of the lamp no greater than 54 inches nor less than 22 inches.

Oregon

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted; lighting equipment must stay within minimum/maximum heights. No portion of the vehicle, except tires, can be lower than the lowest portion of any rim of any wheel in contact with the roadway.

Pennsylvania

Modification of original vehicle bumper is legal with parameters set by state. Some part of the bumper must fall between 16 and 20 inches about the ground on passenger vehicles, and between 16 and 30 inches on multipurpose passenger vehicles and light trucks.

Rhode Island

Modification of original bumper height is illegal unless exempted (exemptions include some farm and forestry vehicles).

South Carolina

It is illegal to elevate or lower passenger vehicle more than 6 inches from the original height.

South Dakota

Modification of original bumper height is permitted.

Tennessee

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is legal with restrictions. Maximum bumper height is 22 inches on passenger vehicles, and between 14 and 31 inches on 4-wheel drive recreational vehicles.

Texas

A person may not operate on a public roadway a passenger or commercial vehicle that has been modified from its original design or weighted so that the clearance between any part of the vehicle other than the wheels and the surface of the level roadway is less than the clearance between the roadway and the lowest part of the rim of any wheel in contact with the roadway.

Utah

Bumpers must be at least 4.5 inches in height. Lift kits are permitted. Four inch tires, 4 inch lift on 100-inch+ wheel base; under 100-inch wheelbase, height is determined by formula.

Vermont

Modification of the original vehicle bumper height is illegal.

Virginia

Modification of original bumper height is permitted but must meet state standards. Bumpers must be between 14 and 22 inches in height.

Washington

A passenger vehicle may not be modified from the original design so that any portion of the vehicle other than the wheels has less clearance from the surface of a level roadway than the clearance between the roadway and the lowermost portion of any rim of any wheel the tire on which is in contact with the roadway.

West Virginia

The front and rear bumper height of motor vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 10,000 lbs. or less must be not less than 6 inches and not more than 31 inches.

Wisconsin

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted 4 inches above or below manufacturer’s specs.

Wyoming

Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

Puerto Rico
Modification of original vehicle bumper height is permitted.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

That's interesting... in Georgia we can legally change by just 2"... I can tell you for sure that is one law that is NEVER enforced. We have plenty of HS kids in 12" lifted trucks. Was really surprised to see that law. In Atlanta, we have a ton of urban wannabe hillbillies, and real ones outside of Atlanta.

Most enforcement agencies don't. But if anyone ever gets in a wreck and Saul Goodman is the ambulance chasing attorney.... get ready for a lawsuit that they will win....

J

 

[Reckless]

I'm pretty sure @sleeoffroad has the only three TJM T13 bumpers in the United States right now. I know this because I live 15 minutes from the new TJM US distributor and waited nearly 5 months for this one. 5 came in the shipping container TOTAL... One was Sold...I bought one...(via Slee) and the other three were on their way to Christo at Slee.

If you want one...don't wait, or you will be in for a very...VERY long wait.

Three down, two left to go!

Mark, you are an inspiration! I ordered the same bumper to follow in your footsteps. Thanks for your advice! I like the way it has a flush installation as opposed to the ARB bumper.

 

[Reckless]

My experience may not be typical, but I'll throw it in.

Ever since I mounted my bumper, I definitely find myself driving slower and more carefully. The suspension is fine and could certainly tolerate the spirited driving, but my bigger concern is what happens if I get in an accident now. I know there has been a lot of chatter on the forum about impacts, etc. with these bumpers lately, but I definitely believe that there are now two possible outcomes in a collision: I am going to hit something softer than me and destroy it, or I am going to hit something unyielding and increase the deceleration forces to my occupants.

I consider these bumpers to come with an inherent responsibility not to needlessly put people in danger by driving my armored vehicle recklessly. Seen plenty of those bullbar bullies on the road and don't want to be one. But otherwise, it is my favorite mod (followed closely by my drawers).

My $0.02.

Thanks for your feedback. It made the difference in my purchase. I fully agree about the importance of respecting life and property of others.

 

[chall]

Three down, two left to go!

Mark, you are an inspiration! I ordered the same bumper to follow in your footsteps. Thanks for your advice! I like the way it has a flush installation as opposed to the ARB bumper.

Better make that one left.

 

[Reckless]

My experience may not be typical, but I'll throw it in.

Ever since I mounted my bumper, I definitely find myself driving slower and more carefully. The suspension is fine and could certainly tolerate the spirited driving, but my bigger concern is what happens if I get in an accident now. I know there has been a lot of chatter on the forum about impacts, etc. with these bumpers lately, but I definitely believe that there are now two possible outcomes in a collision: I am going to hit something softer than me and destroy it, or I am going to hit something unyielding and increase the deceleration forces to my occupants.

I consider these bumpers to come with an inherent responsibility not to needlessly put people in danger by driving my armored vehicle recklessly. Seen plenty of those bullbar bullies on the road and don't want to be one. But otherwise, it is my favorite mod (followed closely by my drawers).

My $0.02.

I like to cruise empty highways at night at 80-90mph. Do you feel the TJM bumper affect the aerodynamics at all at those speeds? I love how my LC is able to split the wind even at those speeds especially on a stormy night. I am starting to get cold feet about bullbars over this issue. I had a bullbar on my 01 Infiniti QX4 and it didn't affect driving characteristics at all. Although it was one of those types that went over the bumper.

The ARB design seems to be making more sense to me about cutting the stock bumper up. I thought it was because they were lazy in their design process but it turns out to protect better from metal on metal grinding. I like the idea of it weighing 20 lbs more too as that would hold up better on an impact with another vehicle. My main purpose in buying a bullbar is to protect my occupants in the event of a crash. From a cosmetic point of view the TJM winch bar comes off more modern and sleeker than the ARB. But I am willing to sacrifice cosmetics for safety. Where I live in Chicago has started turning into accident war zones not sure if its from cell phone distractions or over congestion on the roads. Either way I want me and my family to be protected as I drive 30k miles a year.

 

[Willy beamin]

I like to cruise empty highways at night at 80-90mph. Do you feel the TJM bumper affect the aerodynamics at all at those speeds? I love how my LC is able to split the wind even at those speeds especially on a stormy night. I am starting to get cold feet about bullbars over this issue. I had a bullbar on my 01 Infiniti QX4 and it didn't affect driving characteristics at all. Although it was one of those types that went over the bumper.

The ARB design seems to be making more sense to me about cutting the stock bumper up. I thought it was because they were lazy in their design process but it turns out to protect better from metal on metal grinding. I like the idea of it weighing 20 lbs more too as that would hold up better on an impact with another vehicle. My main purpose in buying a bullbar is to protect my occupants in the event of a crash. From a cosmetic point of view the TJM winch bar comes off more modern and sleeker than the ARB. But I am willing to sacrifice cosmetics for safety. Where I live in Chicago has started turning into accident war zones not sure if its from cell phone distractions or over congestion on the roads. Either way I want me and my family to be protected as I drive 30k miles a year.

The bulbar will expose more tire and the additional weight will also be a negative on your MPG's. Will it slow you down? NO - if you are use to cranking along at those speeds then the only difference you may experience is your ankle will have to flex a bit more on the skinny pedal. What you had on your QX4 was a paper clip in comparison. Aerodymanically speaking this truck has more in common with a blue whale. If safety for yourself and passengers is what you are looking for you can't go wrong with either selection - good luck its a hard choice until you buy one

 

[TeCKis300]

My experience may not be typical, but I'll throw it in.

Ever since I mounted my bumper, I definitely find myself driving slower and more carefully. The suspension is fine and could certainly tolerate the spirited driving, but my bigger concern is what happens if I get in an accident now. I know there has been a lot of chatter on the forum about impacts, etc. with these bumpers lately, but I definitely believe that there are now two possible outcomes in a collision: I am going to hit something softer than me and destroy it, or I am going to hit something unyielding and increase the deceleration forces to my occupants.

I consider these bumpers to come with an inherent responsibility not to needlessly put people in danger by driving my armored vehicle recklessly. Seen plenty of those bullbar bullies on the road and don't want to be one. But otherwise, it is my favorite mod (followed closely by my drawers).

My $0.02.

Well said, and could not agree more. While I love the style and they have a place, there are certainly some drawbacks.

 

[Markuson]

I like to cruise empty highways at night at 80-90mph. Do you feel the TJM bumper affect the aerodynamics at all at those speeds? I love how my LC is able to split the wind even at those speeds especially on a stormy night. I am starting to get cold feet about bullbars over this issue. I had a bullbar on my 01 Infiniti QX4 and it didn't affect driving characteristics at all. Although it was one of those types that went over the bumper.

The ARB design seems to be making more sense to me about cutting the stock bumper up. I thought it was because they were lazy in their design process but it turns out to protect better from metal on metal grinding. I like the idea of it weighing 20 lbs more too as that would hold up better on an impact with another vehicle. My main purpose in buying a bullbar is to protect my occupants in the event of a crash. From a cosmetic point of view the TJM winch bar comes off more modern and sleeker than the ARB. But I am willing to sacrifice cosmetics for safety. Where I live in Chicago has started turning into accident war zones not sure if its from cell phone distractions or over congestion on the roads. Either way I want me and my family to be protected as I drive 30k miles a year.

Any heavy bumper install should leave a gap between itself and the fender body panels to allow for inevitable movement--especially at speed over corrugated roads, including the ARB. Honestly between the ARB & TJM...I think it's more a question of personal preference... Functionally, they really are very similar. I do think you gain a wee bit of approach angle on the TJM with less extension, and the bull-bar itself is fatter on the TJM...but not a big deal. It's a toss-up.

 

[mark71]

Probably the biggest difference I can tell, besides looks, is that the ARB has the crush can mount. There was a good video on this site somewhere about the design, but I haven't found it. It is nice in that is gives the ARB a built in crumple zone, thereby decreasing the deceleration forces of a steel bumper mounted to the frame. It is also the reason the ARB sticks out so much farther than the TJM.

There have been long discussions about airbags and steel bumpers. In short, steel bumpers, because they have less give, will cause a more rapid deceleration of the vehicle and therefore trigger the airbag sensors in a less severe impact than in an otherwise unmodified rig.

Both bumpers are listed as "airbag compliant". I'm not a lawyer, but I can certainly see the subtle use of "compliant" to mean that it does not interfere with deployment of the airbag: if you have an accident, your airbag will still deploy. Pretty sure both corporation's lawyers picked that phrase very carefully.

So in my mind, the bullbar is mostly protecting the cruiser. Having disabled my first cruiser by running into a cable across the road in the middle of nowhere, I vowed never to let that happen again. This is, after all, my camping AND bug out vehicle.

If you truly want to have the highest degree of protection possible for your family, I would think that allowing the vehicle to sacrifice itself, as the non-passenger areas crumple and absorb energy, would be your best bet.

 

[Markuson]

About those "crumplers..."

When I had my 100 Series and ARB Sahara bar...I was frankly disappointed in how LITTLE it took to begin the crumple... I had a VERY minor bump (guy pulled in my lane on the freeway and then immediately panicked and slammed his brakes...and I bumped him). It was a VERY MINOR impact...not even enough to make one's neck lurch forward, or press against the seat-belt strap...and yet it tweaked how my bumper sat because the crumple zone let it bend in. Too crumply for me. Perhaps the ARB bull bar is less "crumply" than the Sahara(? I think they're the same)...but it was frustrating.

 

[mark71]

About those "crumplers..."

When I had my 100 Series and ARB Sahara bar...I was frankly disappointed in how LITTLE it took to begin the crumple... I had a VERY minor bump (guy pulled in my lane on the freeway and they immediately panicked and slammed his brakes...and I bumped him). It was a VERY MINOR impact...not even enough to make one's neck lurch forward, or press against the seat-belt strap...and yet it tweaked how my bumper sat because the crumple zone let it bend in. Too crumply for me. Perhaps the ARB bull bar is less "crumply"...but it was frustrating.

That was exactly my fear: a good idea but maybe not specific for the weight of the vehicle. To be a truly effective crumple mount, they would need a different design for different vehicle weights. I did not see that and figured they were using the same crush can for all their bumpers. Being fat pigs, we are much more likely to crush these with minor impacts in our 3 ton vehicles, as your experience would seem to indicate.

 

[Reckless]

Good question.

If you truly want to have the highest degree of protection possible for your family, I would think that allowing the vehicle to sacrifice itself, as the non-passenger areas crumple and absorb energy, would be your best bet.

Food for thought. I am rethinking the whole thing over. What you describe makes sense logically but the hooligan side of me says get the bullbar and be invincible:


On a serious note, you might be right.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I haven't read through this thread, but I found this video and thought of Mark and his new TJM

 

[Markuson]

Sweet bumper porn!
Those are a new version they now for the 2016+.
It's a lot more angular and modern-looking than my T13. I do like how they raised the wing angles quite a bit. Looks like the tires are more open than mine. We'll know soon enough.

I'm guessing when ARB did their redesign for the 2016+, they had to(?).
Great looking design, IMO.

Interesting snorkel design too.

 

[Obi Wong Kenobi]

I wonder if you could use the newly designed bumper with the pre-facelift models. Looks good!

 

[Reckless]

I wonder if you could use the newly designed bumper with the pre-facelift models. Looks good!

+1 The new version is alot sexier! First time I am envious of 2016+ models. Who should I contact to ask about fitment?

 

[Markuson]

I wonder if you could use the newly designed bumper with the pre-facelift models. Looks good!

It looks like they make serious angle changes to work around the chrome. Would leave a strange shape on earlier models like mine I think.

The more dramatic upward cut to expose the tires reminds me of the TT build for TonyP just a bit, though not nearly so exposed. I like it...but alas, I'm a 2008.

 

[madams557]

Maybe someone with a 2016 that wants this new TJM, buddy up with a 2008 owner to do a test fit. Research for the good of the group.