Ever had a clutch fork rub the pressure plate?

[dohcdelsol93]

I got a new OEM clutch pivot ball stud and fork.

Installed after putting new synchros in the trans. Made an awful noise if I wasn't pressing in the clutch, so bad I could feel it in the pedal. Removed to find orange paint and fresh exposed metal on the clutch fork.

Have both koyo and nsk 3.0 release bearings on hand.

Flywheel is orileys. Clutch kit is clutch masters all 3.4 fitment.

3.0 r150f

Using TD conversion vw engine adapter to make my motor look like a 3.0/3.4

I have two other clutch forks. Luckily I have a spare bell I can test fit without the transmission attached.

The new clutch fork and one of the old ones hit no matter what ball stud is used (1 new and two used). All ball studs are within a few thousands of each other.

One older clutch fork that doesn't hit is shaped just a little different barely clears, I think it's from a w56. The two for the r150 hit.

Running both aisin clutch masters and slaves yet these hit with no slave attached and just a bell housing (no trans attached)

Anyone run into this issue with clutch fork and pressure plate interference?

T Transmissions keep eating synchros (4 -5 times now). I noticed once warm if I put it in 4 low, rev the engine to about 3k in 1st or 3rd I can feel a grab. Not consistent or enough to move me but still a grab. Replacing the fork/ball in hopes of a little more throw. Tired of removing transmissions. Takes 4 to 6 months before I have weird issues like not wanting to shift into 4th or 1st. Reverse, never an issue.

 

[gnob]

is it possible the fw kit is for a 3.4 and not a 3.0
3.4 r150 uses a longer bell.
can you shorten up the fw spacer?
what does your starter to fw engagement look like?

 

[dohcdelsol93]

The back of the 3.0 and 3.4 are identical. The two flywheels will interchange, you just have to use the matching clutch kit and flywheel bolts. The release bearing is matched to the r150. The 95 up is longer than the 88-94, the longer one uses a taller release aka throw out bearing. Oddly enough the 3.0 uses longer flywheel bolts. 3.4 clutch disk hub faces inward while 3.0 faces outward. Obviously this also changes the depth of the two bell housings, the longer 95 up is deeper than the 3.0 version.

My starter is a denso V8 land cruiser or tundra starter. Engagement seems fine. Engagement marks cover nearly the entity of the tooth surface.

I've come across one thread on yota tech discussion the center force pressure plate hitting the fork but no one expanded on it. It's about the only clutch that is rated to hold the steep TDI torque curve.

I can shorten the flywheel adapter spacer, via taking it off and dropping off to a machine shop.

 

[gnob]

im aware of the 3.0/3.4 specs.
why does td offer separate kits?
what's the difference in the kits is what i was getting at?

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I'm going to email them to ask. I'm assuming it's due to people assuming the r150f is all the same and ordering the wrong flywheel bolts and/or clutch release bearing. I'll report back what they say.

I didn't realize they had two kits, seems redundant.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

The one on the left had been running 4-6 weeks. I couldn't feel that one rubbing. The new one on right was a brutal beating I couldn't miss.

 

[aztoyman]

When I swapped from a 22RE to the 3.4 I put a 3.0 R150F bellhousing on my R151F to mate to the 3.4. I had forks from the 88 W56B, the 3.0 R150F and the fork from the donor 99 R150F.

I measured and compared the 3 different forks and the two different style TO bearings. My 88 had the TO bearing that had a cast section that was reused and only the bearing got swapped. Looked completely different from the other ones but both worked. I tried it. All the forks worked. They did have very slight differences. I posted all this with pics and measurement on yotatech WAY back and unfortunately the pics are all gone. I even measured and tried the slave cylinders from the 3.0 and the W56 units. The 3.4 went on the opposite side so would not work. The bore and stroke of the W56 and the 3.0 R150 were the same. The only difference I found was the spring inside.

I used the 3.4 flywheel and clutch. I'm told the 3.0 clutch and FW also work but I never tried it.

I'm having a hard time visualizing it all but it seems that the problem is with the adaptation end if all the Toyota parts you have are correct. Does it require a special TO bearing to space it further away from the pressure plate? Is the pressure plate wrong and sticking out too far? Or the fingers/diaphragm in too far??

I'm looking forward to what you find out. Good luck with it.
Scott in AZ

 

[aztoyman]

I found some of my pics. 88 W56B on left

 

[dohcdelsol93]

centerforce DF505019 is the kit I'm using. Per the centerforce website this is the correct fitment. I suppose what I got in the box could always be different.

Per the instructions on the TD conversions (and the old DSC kit I used) no special throw our bearing is necessary as the kit is supposed to make the back of the VW engine look like the engine she's supposed to be replacing, so OEM components would be necessary.

There is a good bit of visual difference between the NSK and koyo clutch release bearings for the 3.0 however it seems all the main clearances for top, bottom and fork contact are identical.

 

[aztoyman]

W56B on right

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I'd take comparison pics of what I have however my fork is already installed. Currently cutting down a disco 2 push V8 push rod for a little longer slave push rod.

 

[aztoyman]

 

[aztoyman]

W56B on right. Both worked fine. I actually ran them. I "THOUGHT" I had a problem when I had a slightly squeaky TO bearing. It went away when I put a tiny bit of pressure on the pedal. It turned out to be the slave with the highest pressure spring took care of the noise.

 

[aztoyman]

I don't remember why I took this.

 

[aztoyman]

3.4 flywheel machined with step as per Marlin.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I've heard this "cutting step" mentioned a few times. .020" or .025".

I was under the impression marlin did this for more clamping power, more even clutch wear and I believe it also less pedal pressure as a byproduct of the mod. Good for those who battle traffic daily.

Or was was this done for clearance?

I've only ran new local auto parts sourced flywheels so far.

 

[aztoyman]

Not for clearance that I'm aware of. Just the other things you mentioned.

 

[aztoyman]

Is it the weights on the Centerforce clutch that are hitting? I thought I saw a similar complaint on a Flathead Ford forum.

 

[dohcdelsol93]

I removed the weights. The weights are there to help provide extra clamping pressure at high rpms. My engine isn't going to be reving past about 3000-3500 rpms so no need to have extra moving parts in the mix that might fail.

The very outer edge of the pressure plate is what was hitting.

As far as I can tell, it's not currently hitting. Seems I'm still getting some clutch drag once she's good and warmed up. It's not much but enough to where 1st is notchy. No real improvement over the the stock length slave push rod I replaced

 

[dohcdelsol93]

Got an email back from TD conversions regarding the differences between the 3.4 dedicated and 3.0 dedicated TD adapter kits. They are identical other than hardware, which I suspected but definitely something good to know before throwing more at it.

The test run today went about as expected. Cold, she shifted like butter. Once warm it's hard to get into first or reverse. I'll bleed it again at lunch today perhaps I still have air in the line.

I ordered a LUK flywheel, perhaps my issue has been the orileys sourced aftermarket flywheel and perhaps not having a proper step to them. At this point I'm just throwing things at it to see what sticks.


I'm tempted to try another clutch kit as well as my synchro eating issue has also been with centerforce clutch kits.

Unfortunately there are not a lot of 350 ft/lbs plus rated clutches for these guys. LCE even put NOT FOR TDI engines on their clutch pages, I guess they had a rash of failure due to the crazy torque curves these guys put out.

There's always the cheap eBay 110 dollar dual friction clutch kits that might be worth a shot, rated at 320 ish ft/lbs. Would at least be something different to try.