Ethanol gas and Older Engines (1 Viewer)

GarnerFJ40

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It may be old news for some of us, but after tracking down potential problem with fuel filter, pump, pcv, and possible carb issues, it may be just the gas to blame.

An older gentleman and I had a conversation at the truck show about some of the items contained in this news article:

A Shotgun Marriage? Ethanol and Old Outboard Boat Engines

And he reccommended trying a bottle of "Mechanic in a bottle" sold at Home Depot and other big box stores. He had used it on his older 70's Chvy truck with good results, and the 40 was showing signs of the same issues (hesitation, back-firing, cutting off).

Mechanic In a Bottle | Products |B3C Fuel Solutions

I tried it, and the 40 ran like a champ. Looks like I'll make sure only non-ethanol gas will be in the 40 from now on, since it doesn't get driven on a regular basis.
 
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Brian,

The issue is if the gas sits for an extended period of time the gas breaks down/evaporates leaving water. I have had this issue twice now on my boat and simple solutons...yet costly....drain and refill. The problem for significantly long periods of time is the ethanol builds up a residue when gas evaporates and then becomes a issue to pass through filters and jets. Thus requiring rebuilds and such. I wonder if it would make any since to run water seperators on things other than boats to combat this issue.

Of course you could always go diesel or propane.
 
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Ethanol also degrades older rubber products, so it doesn't play nice with some seals.

Good luck finding E0 gas easily, but here is a site I use to source fuel for the boat. Most costal marinas sell E0, but is very expensive. So I try to fill the boat at some of the inland stations found from this site.

pure-gas.org : ethanol-free gas stations

I ONLY run E0 on my boat after seeing firsthand what it did with Greg's and having found residue from degraded hoses in a couple of the several fuel filters on the boat. Heres a pic of some gas I pulled from the VST filter on my Yamaha outboard, which had clogged one of my injectors. I'm guessing the same is happening in vehicles as well, but newer fuel lines have adapted to the change in fuel.

IMG_0317.JPG


IMG_0319.JPG


:beer: R
 
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those VST filters can be a pain to get off. I had something similar last week. The main water separated filter went bad, putting two high of volume into the smaller filters in the engine (i think our motors have 4 including the big ones coming out of the tank. This led to some fouled plugs and the engine self rev limited itself to 2300 RPMS. After changing all the filters and plugs, we were cranking out 5400 RPMS and 48 MPH. To the OP, as said, if you burn gas regularly, like in a daily driver, ethanol is not a problem. When it sits it gets bad. If you have it in your car and you are worried about separation. Just add in some stabil or a similar fuel stabilizer. Those do a great job on preserving gas. On our boat, we use Stabil, Yammie stabilizer, and Ring free additive, probably a bit excessive, however, we have HPDI motors that get real fussy with bad gas.
 
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krzyabncanuck

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Yukon LX said:
those VST filters can be a pain to get off. I had something similar last week. The main water separated filter went bad, putting two high of volume into the smaller filters in the engine (i think our motors have 4 including the big ones coming out of the tank. This led to some fouled plugs and the engine self rev limited itself to 2300 RPMS. After changing all the filters and plugs, we were cranking out 5400 RPMS and 48 MPH. To the OP, as said, if you burn gas regularly, like in a daily driver, ethanol is not a problem. When it sits it gets bad. If you have it in your car and you are worried about separation. Just ad an some stabil or a similar fuel stabilizer. Those do a great job on preserving gas. On our boat, we use Stabil, Yammie stabilizer, and Ring free additive, probably a bit excessive, however, we have HPDI motors that get real fussy with bad gas.

I have been talking about this stuff since before it came on the market
I only run ethanol free in my 45 and all my small engines. If anyone in Nam wants to know where to get it i will point them in the right direction. I actually just had to have my old weedeater put a new carb on because of this . Effects Harleys also, old ones that is.
 
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I actually just had to have my old weedeater put a new carb on because of this.

I didnt even think of that before, but i had the same problem with a Stihl chainsaw that gets used very little. I only run E0 in the boat, and now pour all gas out of the power tools when done, and run them till the cut off. (i dont spend the time to find a gallon of E0 inland.)
 

GarnerFJ40

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Brian,

Of course you could always go diesel or propane.

Yet another reason to get moving with the project!

Well it seems there's a station not too far from the old house... Off 401 near the new Wal-Mart in Garner

I may make it a point to stop there for gas....
 

krzyabncanuck

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I didnt even think of that before, but i had the same problem with a Stihl chainsaw that gets used very little. I only run E0 in the boat, and now pour all gas out of the power tools when done, and run them till the cut off. (i dont spend the time to find a gallon of E0 inland.)

Mine was a Stihl also. About 15 years old now.
 

JohnVee

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My understanding is that the gas/water separation of ethanol fuel occurs after 30-60 days depending on the season. True or not...? I've lost a couple fuel pumps in my '74 Spitfire over the last 3 years due to this problem - crap still gets through the filter. I've now replaced all rubber lines and use Stabil in the tank (give the body a good bounce every now and then). I also keep the fuel level low until it's time to drive it. Sadly, my 40's PO also kept the tank close to E and the tank flooded the cab with fuel the first time I filled it since the lines had rotted from being dry all those years. Yay, me.

--john
 
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My understanding is that the gas/water separation of ethanol fuel occurs after 30-60 days depending on the season. True or not...? I've lost a couple fuel pumps in my '74 Spitfire over the last 3 years due to this problem - crap still gets through the filter. I've now replaced all rubber lines and use Stabil in the tank (give the body a good bounce every now and then). I also keep the fuel level low until it's time to drive it. Sadly, my 40's PO also kept the tank close to E and the tank flooded the cab with fuel the first time I filled it since the lines had rotted from being dry all those years. Yay, me.

--john


My friend had the same problem with his old spitfire.... he started running a diesel secondary fuel filter and it solved the problem.
 

jfz80

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Triumphs 60s english two seat roadster......think MG or austin healey etc

lovely how the Kazuma implicitly says do not use ethanol blended fuels :frown:
 
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The first car I ever totaled was my brothers Triumph Spitfire. :doh:
He joined the Army in 1973 so I took over the car payments. In 1974, after school I was cruising with a hotty when a big ass Oldsmobile and I met on a narrow, 2 lane back road head-on. Needless to say, the Olds won that battle! :mad:
 
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Only 2! :p The 2nd one though was a beautiful 1972 MGB that I had in college. After a night of clubbing in Roanoke, I decided to drive on back to Blacksburg for a job interview the next day. I took the back roads and at 3:00 in the morning, in the middle of nowhere, I hit some gravels in a curve and plowed thru trees and down a 30 foot ravine. I walked to a house and called my brother, who had just got married that day, and he came with a friend in a Peterbilt and they drug the MGB back up to the road and we left it. Not a wise decision looking back. Got to his place and called the PoPo, who in turn had it towed off the road. They would have thrown away the key to the cell cause I was pretty tight, if you know what I mean.

A friend had one and after we rebuilt his engine, we rebuilt mine. Dual carbs even! Had it painted and it was in mint condition. Just had put a new muffler and tank of gas in it that day. :crybaby: Wish I had it now!

On a side note, that was my bros 3rd marriage so I didn't go to his wedding! That was in 1980. Also, that wife is the one we go to Hatteras with every year, and they have been divorced since 1995! :hmm:

Hijack over!
 

JohnVee

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ah gotcha, thanks. I thought you guys were really badass there for a minute, flying vintage fighters around for fun.

Who says we don't? Mileage can't be much worse than my 40. Ever wonder why our skies are remarkably free of ME109's?

--john
 
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Who says we don't? Mileage can't be much worse than my 40. Ever wonder why our skies are remarkably free of ME109's?

--john

Ha Ha...... yeah and old spitfire is one of the best looking planes ever made..

on a related note I was driving up highway 52 two weeks ago past phiefer university and there was a plane for sale on the side of the highway
 
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i have been flying lead in my P-51 club for years. I am pretty sure that is the reason there are no 109s around. Also, my F-22 raptor club is just getting going, and we have not seen a eurofighters or T- 50s at all. But mileage is much worse than the 100, which is pretty terrible.
 

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