Electric park brake for 80 series - options? Worthwhile? Or silly overkill?

[alia176]

Couple of issues with a line lock…

Firstly, you can only switch them on for around 30 seconds at a time. The solenoids get hot so have a short duty cycle.

Secondly, they require constant power when active, which is fine for a few minutes but no ideal for parking…

Third, if the motor gets hot and current increases and blows a fuse, suddenly they will release pressure and the vehicle will roll.

And finally, here in Australia the rules and regulations state the handbrake must be mechanically activated and not rely on hydraulic pressure (so that rules out using a hydraulic hand brake with catch).

I have done a previous 80 series handbrake using a Subaru caliper with the handbrake built into the caliper itself. It works really really well, but requires welding a new bump stop bracket to the axle to protect the handbrake cable (which is a bit of a pain).

So now that the electric handbrake calipers are coming down in price it seems like a good option… well, they have their draw backs but I still consider it better than the 80 series drum design.

This is great info, thank you for sharing.

1 , 2) i know that I can purchase solenoid valves that can be energized to "change state" but then not needing power afterward to maintain the state. Well, at least in the automation controls industry these types of SVs are avail, not sure in the 12vdc realm if such things exist.

alternative - how about a mech plunger instead of a SV? Granted, plumbing then becomes a nightmare if you have to bring it into the cab. Wonder if a remote cable operated plunger even exists

3) the mech parking brake is still being used, the line locks are for "special times", like whilst winching.

Again, good points and I learned something. Thx!!

 

[Feistl]

Yes, you can use those style of line lockers however here in Australia they are illegal as if they are energised with the brakes off, when you apply the pedal you are preventing fluid from reaching the brakes which is a safety issue.

The line lockers are actually a one way valve design, meaning if you lock the valve you can still push fluid TO the brakes, but it can’t return. So even if something happens and the locker engages, the brakes still function.

I have looked at those permanent line lockers and doing something fancy with a parallel one way check valve, but it starts getting complex, more points of failure and again here in Aus technically against ADRs (Australian Design Rules).

So on my other cruisers I use line lockers activated by the horn switch when in 4WD/Low range (in 2WD/High range the horn button is a horn). They work really well as you put your foot on the brake, then thumb on the small button, take foot off the brake and the vehicle is held in place… once you’ve got to the bite point on the clutch release the button and drive off.

 

[Feistl]

Just fyi I am using one of these steering wheels so it’s really easy to use the horn (red) buttons…

 

[alia176]

Just fyi I am using one of these steering wheels so it’s really easy to use the horn (red) buttons…

View attachment 3197995

now, that's snazzy stuff mate, thank you for sharing. I was thinking along the same lines as you. Might we have a link to your hardware pls?

 

[mudgudgeon]

I have done a previous 80 series handbrake using a Subaru caliper with the handbrake built into the caliper itself

Did you replace the 80 series caliper, or was the Subaru caliper additional?

I did a disc brake conversion on a HQ Holden years ago using WB Holden calipers with a mechanical actuator built into the caliper for the handbrake. Mechanism was a bit clunky, but it worked well enough.

 

[sunrk]

Sort of off-track here, but large vehicles with AIR BRAKES have a really cool system. Pull the knob out, and SSSSSSSS - you're not going anywhere. If you should run out of air, the brakes lock up.
What's really strange to me is that the air brakes on a train are just the opposite: run out of air, and the brakes release. That's what caused the runaway train in Canada a few years ago - the one that incinerated an entire town.

Trains originally had vacuum brakes until present-day air brake systems came about. I've been a train driver here in oz for over 30 yrs so go plenty of experience with different train brake systems. Train brakes don't necessarily release when they 'run out of air' as there are redundancies designed into the system to overcome effects of air loss.

And it's why here in Australia every freight train running on the main interstate rail systems requires a train brake certificate specifying that a 'holding test' (breakaway test basically) has been done on the last three wagons for a time based on the length of the train. Brake cert is a legal document.

Many locomotives and some commuter trains also have park brakes that require main reservoir pressure of 700 to 800 kpa to hold them off (similar to truck park brakes). Still have older locos with manual (chain operated with a screw jack type wheel or ratchet handle) park brakes.

Truck park brakes would be great, but no 80's came equipped with truck-type air compressor systems and tanks from the factory, so it wouldn't be legal here. Endless air systems used to be really big in the aftermarket but try finding them now. Modified AC compressors were used and mounted to the motor to be directly driven instead of depending on a 12 v compressor. Truck type air tank racks would be quite big on an 80.

 

[peneumbra2]

Trains originally had vacuum brakes until present-day air brake systems came about. I've been a train driver here in oz for over 30 yrs so go plenty of experience with different train brake systems. Train brakes don't necessarily release when they 'run out of air' as there are redundancies designed into the system to overcome effects of air loss.

And it's why here in Australia every freight train running on the main interstate rail systems requires a train brake certificate specifying that a 'holding test' (breakaway test basically) has been done on the last three wagons for a time based on the length of the train. Brake cert is a legal document.

Many locomotives and some commuter trains also have park brakes that require main reservoir pressure of 700 to 800 kpa to hold them off (similar to truck park brakes). Still have older locos with manual (chain operated with a screw jack type wheel or ratchet handle) park brakes.

Truck park brakes would be great, but no 80's came equipped with truck-type air compressor systems and tanks from the factory, so it wouldn't be legal here. Endless air systems used to be really big in the aftermarket but try finding them now. Modified AC compressors were used and mounted to the motor to be directly driven instead of depending on a 12 v compressor. Truck type air tank racks would be quite big on an 80.

Thanks for explaining the train brake situation. I was able to catch a (several hours) ride in a freight locomotive years ago for a magazine story I was writing.
The scariest part was when we passed through a tunnel. I ducked down - the guys laughed - because it seemed that the tunnel was about FOUR INCHES above the cab roof.
You are no doubt aware of the Canadian rail disaster a few years ago. Apparently, the engineer went home for the night, and somehow the system ran out of air, the parking brake(s) failed, and the train (consisting mostly of full fuel tank cars) rolled downgrade and into town, with deadly results.
Sorry to derail this thread (oops!), but trains and their operation are fascinating.

 

[sunrk]

The parking brake (on the locomotives) if it's an air-operated spring park brake cannot 'fail' to apply unless something mechanically breaks as spring park brakes are 'fail safe' (ie. their failure mode if air supply is lost is to come on), but locomotive park brakes will not hold a multi-thousand tonne train if the actual train brakes themselves leak off.

Here in Australia it's illegal to leave a train with no crew on it unless it's fully secured, and what that means varies depending on the state (as the safeworking rules are different in every state and on every seperate below-rail network) and whether the train is left with locomotives running (rare - usually only in terminals where the grade is flat) or shut down. If locos are shut down, *sufficient handbrakes* must be applied in addition to park brakes on locomotives, but if the terminal is a on a grade (like Enfield or Clyde yards in Sydney) the handbrake rule applies regardless of whether locos are shut down or not.

I wonder if anyone has engineered a way to fit truck brakes (with integral spring parking brakes) to a 4wd (even if not an 80 series) when the vehicle has a permanent-duty air compressor and tank system like a truck fitted...

 

[peneumbra2]

The parking brake (on the locomotives) if it's an air-operated spring park brake cannot 'fail' to apply unless something mechanically breaks as spring park brakes are 'fail safe' (ie. their failure mode if air supply is lost is to come on), but locomotive park brakes will not hold a multi-thousand tonne train if the actual train brakes themselves leak off.

Here in Australia it's illegal to leave a train with no crew on it unless it's fully secured, and what that means varies depending on the state (as the safeworking rules are different in every state and on every seperate below-rail network) and whether the train is left with locomotives running (rare - usually only in terminals where the grade is flat) or shut down. If locos are shut down, *sufficient handbrakes* must be applied in addition to park brakes on locomotives, but if the terminal is a on a grade (like Enfield or Clyde yards in Sydney) the handbrake rule applies regardless of whether locos are shut down or not.

I wonder if anyone has engineered a way to fit truck brakes (with integral spring parking brakes) to a 4wd (even if not an 80 series) when the vehicle has a permanent-duty air compressor and tank system like a truck fitted...

You'd need a BIG compressor and tanks to do that - lots of weight. And having air brakes is maintenance-intensive, more so than juice brakes.
They're really not necessary in light vehicles.