Don't let them have your 200 (2 Viewers)

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The myth that Toyota stays true to some amorphous core value of what is Land Cruiser is silly. Toyota has one core goal and one core goal only - extracting the maximum amount of dollars from customers with the lowest cost.
Although this statement is partly true, you are leaving out the very important fact that the so called "amorphous core of what a LC is" is what sells to begin with and Toyota also knows this. You leave that part out of the equation, and the equation changes on both sides, and the other side of the equation are customers and their loyalty. So now it isn't so much silly as it is necessary and a good business practice.
 
Your image was @bjowett's from from a 2008 Tundra. This is was the basis of my reply. The 2G Seq is all of those attributes I described.

If we're talking the 2023+ Sequoia then that's much closer to a 300 but still not there. As I've said previously, build a Trailhunter Sequoia similar to what was done with the 700 and I'd be interested. The lack of tailgate is a bummer, and the trail presence is a bit large, but if you added a few Land Cruiser bits the Sequoia could be a close US surrogate for the 300. The Sequoia competes with the Tahoe/Yukon segment while trying to play in the overland scene with the use of a solid rear. They would have had more Sequoia sales had they kept it IRS to keep the ride quality for the soccer crowd. My guess is TNGA-F didn't lend itself to IRS so the only way to have a full size SUV was to go solid.
It depends on what we're looking for. The Sequoia is built with larger more durable components. It simply is. If the biggest or strongest SUV is the goal - Sequoia wins.

Toyota clearly didn't optimize it for offroad use. Or cargo area use. TBH - I think it's a dumpster fire of design. But it's basically a bigger heavier duty BOF SUV with some really questionable choices on hybrid battery placement and body design.

The problem is that if the argument I see repeatedly in this thread is that a 250 is inferior to a 300 is based on powertrain, then Sequoia is plainly higher in that stack than the LC. That's not really a close call. Not to mention that the GX version of the 250 has higher tow rating and very comparable specs to the LC. If the inferiority is on creature comforts - any of the group can be fitted out with any interior level, so it's just a question of materials and feature content. Not really a distinction between models as much as marketing choices on trim levels. The LX has the highest level of luxury features. No dispute there.
 
Ahhh....now I get it...you are part of the "everyone gets a medal for participation" crowd. Sorry...it doesn't work like that in the real world.
Nope, just stating facts that they’re all Land Cruisers. Didn’t realize so many are immune to facts and logic. I mean Come on, did you really believe the Station Wagon was the only Land Cruiser out of the bunch? That's just setting yourself up to getting knockout by the hard truth.
 
Although this statement is partly true, you are leaving out the very important fact that the so called "amorphous core of what a LC is" is what sells to begin with and Toyota also knows this. You leave that part out of the equation, and the equation changes on both sides, and the other side of the equation are customers and their loyalty. So now it isn't so much silly as it is necessary and a good business practice.
Yes. The emperor's clothing does sell to a certain target demographic. No argument there.
 
First time seeing marketing materials? It's "positioned" in that graphic in a way that will drive sales. It has zero to do with reality.

You bought the kool aid hook, line & sinker, and are visibly coping.
The Toyota Global Newsroom? The very place where Toyota announces official news. That graphic? It’s straight from Toyota’s own sources. So, yeah, it has everything to do with reality. It’s not some theory or 'kool-aid' it’s Toyota’s official positioning of the Land Cruiser 250 ''Zero to do with reality''? Get real.
 
The Toyota Global Newsroom? The very place where Toyota announces official news. That graphic? It’s straight from Toyota’s own sources. So, yeah, it has everything to do with reality. It’s not some theory or 'kool-aid' it’s Toyota’s official positioning of the Land Cruiser 250 ''Zero to do with reality''? Get real.

Denial. <--- You are here.
Anger.
Bargaining.
Depression.
Acceptance. <--- With time you'll get here.

Enjoy the ride.
 
Denial. <--- You are here.
Anger.
Bargaining.
Depression.
Acceptance. <--- With time you'll get here.

Enjoy the ride.
I’m not on your silly list. Rejecting a lie is an act of embracing reality, not denial. However, based on what I've gathered it’s you who’s stuck on that list, long past denial.
 
So, if you get bumped in the rear corner, the computer immobilizes the vehicle.

The Land Cruiser got him there, but won't be getting him home after a bonk to the rear end, apparently.

EDIT: Coupled with the post above, I don't think this vehicle would come close to being tough or reliable enough to finish a race like Baja.


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For me, even if you take away the narrow interior, the tin can feel when you close the door, and the thinner, lighter materials used in critical areas, this post from landcruiserforum.com alone makes the 250 a joke to me. I have seen way worse trail damage... which introduces a whole new vulnerability of potentially having to tow this thing out of the backcountry because it won't drive without the hybrid system being fully functional. Why didn't they implement a workaround or at least beef up the battery compartment?
 
Why didn't they implement a workaround or at least beef up the battery compartment?
Because it's a "Land Cruiser," not to be confused with a Land Cruiser.

Much like this general is a "woman":

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The problem is that if the argument I see repeatedly in this thread is that a 250 is inferior to a 300 is based on powertrain, then Sequoia is plainly higher in that stack than the LC. That's not really a close call. Not to mention that the GX version of the 250 has higher tow rating and very comparable specs to the LC. If the inferiority is on creature comforts - any of the group can be fitted out with any interior level, so it's just a question of materials and feature content. Not really a distinction between models as much as marketing choices on trim levels. The LX has the highest level of luxury features. No dispute there.
The Seq is a marketing derivative for the American market. That it shares components with other Toyota models does not imply that it's superior in the sense of it's primary mission. The F350 also tows more than the Tundra, is it better? The Braptor is faster than the GX is it better?

There's a reason that the 100/200/300 are global vehicles. They are simply the best at their primary mission. Picking an choosing sub-components, tow ratings, 0-60 does not conclude the overall best. I can buy USDA prime but if I don't prepare the meal correctly it's a junk steak. Penelope Cruz has a bigger nose than Gretta Thunberg, but no one is arguing that this eliminates Penelope from the beauty award.

You can't isolate in the discussion of what makes a true Land Cruiser. It is the nexus of engineering, strength, performance, and reliability that is unmatched.
 
What's interesting is in our area there are a TON of barely used 250's already for sale...
How about the BRAND NEW 1958s piling around. Tons in my area, dealers giving $5k off MSRP and nothing moves. Now that the 6th gen runner is hitting the lots for about the same MSRP and loaded with amenities (when compared to the Prado 1958), I can't imagine what these dealers will do.
 
The emperors clothing was invisible. Quality and longevity...not so much though.
The V35A in the 300 isn't any more reliable than the V35A in the 250 or the Sequoia. The parts content is widely shared from the same suppliers with the same part numbers.
 
The Seq is a marketing derivative for the American market. That it shares components with other Toyota models does not imply that it's superior in the sense of it's primary mission. The F350 also tows more than the Tundra, is it better? The Braptor is faster than the GX is it better?

There's a reason that the 100/200/300 are global vehicles. They are simply the best at their primary mission. Picking an choosing sub-components, tow ratings, 0-60 does not conclude the overall best. I can buy USDA prime but if I don't prepare the meal correctly it's a junk steak. Penelope Cruz has a bigger nose than Gretta Thunberg, but no one is arguing that this eliminates Penelope from the beauty award.

You can't isolate in the discussion of what makes a true Land Cruiser. It is the nexus of engineering, strength, performance, and reliability that is unmatched.
You're reaching into the imaginary. If it makes you feel good - it's worth it for you. But there's no there there. It's metal and paint.
 
You're reaching into the imaginary. If it makes you feel good - it's worth it for you. But there's no there there. It's metal and paint.
There are over 10 million global Land Cruiser sales that share similar imaginations.
 
The V35A in the 300 isn't any more reliable than the V35A in the 250 or the Sequoia. The parts content is widely shared from the same suppliers with the same part numbers.
The 3UR-FE would be in the same boat, but yet we know and it is documented that there is a difference.

Also, pulling one aspect of a vehicle and leaving everything else out is a pitiful argument at best.
 
The 3UR-FE would be in the same boat, but yet we know and it is documented that there is a difference.

Also, pulling one aspect of a vehicle and leaving everything else out is a pitiful argument at best.
There's no data I'm aware of that supports the LC200 engine having fewer repairs or longer service life. Thicker plastic? Cool story I guess. Longer life? Nothing I've seen.
 
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