Do y'all recommend a transmission fluid flush?

[PhillipPinot]

Hi everyone, new owner of a 2013. I'm pretty paranoid and proactive about maintenance so I'm wondering if y'all recommend changing that I get the transmission fluid changed. It was purchased from carmax and I don't have a full record of maintenance.

My prior car was a Subaru where I went up and down mountains weekly so changing transmission fluid was something recommended to me by the Subaru forums. Since I don't know the history of this LC, would changing transmission fluid be something recommended? Thanks in advance!!

 

[Haggis]

I was in the same dilemma as you. I decided to have the dealer flush mine last month at 74,000mi. Can't hurt!

 

[Narkhelek]

My dealer told me that even with occasional towing I don't need to flush the transmission until 120k. *shrug*

 

[skitym]

I had mine drained, not flushed last week at the dealer. I wanted the flush but they refuse to do that. They said flushes were too risky. I wasn't in the mood to counter the flush/drain pros/cons argument so I went ahead with the drain. 82,000 miles on my 2013.

 

[thzpcs]

Eh, a flush is alright at that point. It depends on how the shop does it, as some actually have a machine that flushes and can actually cause damage.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Well, no one is having a "flush" done on our transmissions anymore, they are "exchanges," but that is a different discussion since they are very different procedures.

And instead of going down the road of mine or other's opinions. If you buy a bottle of Toyota WS, the fluid in our transmissions, it says right on the bottle, it is rated for only 60,000 miles under severe service. Now everyone drives under severe service conditions. So if Toyota themselves says that fluid is only rated for 60,000 miles, why would it magically last forever when in a system that builds massive amounts on heat?

Really it's because without changing it, the tranny will easily last beyond 125,000 miles. Making last longer than any of their extended warranties offered. But if you want to run your truck to a half million miles or more like I hope to, then it would be a good cheap insurance.

 

[Narkhelek]

I just looked at a bottle of Toyota WS and it didn't mention anything related to miles. Of course bottle labels get changed over time but it doesn't seem like something they would do since it would contradict vehicle specific service interval guides.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Well... yea, looks like they changed the severe service life with "Use AFT WS when recommended in owner's manual" There goes my fact argument, guess we are back to opinions and speculation men!

So Toyota also used to talk about severe and normal service. That was confusing for consumers, so they switched it to "if you tow."

Toyota used to describe severe primarily either towing or hauling, short trips (under 15 miles), driving on dusty or rough roads, driving in mountain regions, excessive braking, operating in temperatures under 32F or over 90F, and my favorite... driving at low speeds or long idle times (city driving to work).

Now, unless a user is driving in California temperatures, but on Nebraska open calm highways, never is stop and go traffic from work, and does not off road or have the weight of off road equipment, then I would agree he stays in normal service, but the vast majority of us live in the severe service level, or Toyota's towing level.

Back to towing, when I would tow a 7,000 lbs trailer on Florida highways, I didn't build any additional heat in the transmission. When I was unloaded, but driving head first into west Texas and Arizona wind, my trans temp was 50F higher the whole time because of drag. When i'm in Los Angeles traffic, I was at the same high trans temperatures. So while Toyota changed the words used, I don't see how the equipment changed with it.

In my '11 service manual on page 45 under 60,000 miles. It says if you Tow, replace the AFT fluid. That is the last thing I can find that references the TOYOTA WS severe service specs.

 

[Malleus]

IMHO, If you change your fluids when they need it, and not based on a calendar (which may either be just expensive or too late), you'll never need to flush the system. Fluid sampling is the only way to be certain you're doing right by your fluids. Large fleet maintenance practices do this, because it's the most cost effective practice.

 

[linuxgod]

I had a full fluid exchange done at the dealer at ~60k miles, but I had just towed my 5000# trailer out to Yellowstone and back on the highway. Did the transfer case and both differentials too. IIRC the manual says just to have it inspected unless you do severe driving. Since a new transmission is thousands of $ a few hundred $ to swap the fluid seems worth it to me if you're not sure

I recommend signing up at Log into Your Toyota Owners Account | Toyota Owners and registering your VIN. Any maintenance done at a Toyota dealer will show up there, so you might learn some of the maintenance history.

There are some folks on the forum who recommend changing fluids sooner than 30k even, just to catch any debris floating around in there since evidently the first fluid change seems to come out dark.

 

[electro992]

I did mine via the cooler lines around 78k and it definitely improved the shifting smoothness. The old fluid did not look terrible, but based on the difference afterwards I'd say it was ready to be changed.

 

[40Man]

I would recommend a fluid exchange (transmission pressure exchanges the fluid rather than a flush which forces it in by machine). Not sure if the pan has a filter, but if so dropping the pan and cleaning or swapping the filter

I did mine via the cooler lines around 78k and it definitely improved the shifting smoothness. The old fluid did not look terrible, but based on the difference afterwards I'd say it was ready to be changed.

Did you put the vehicle into check mode after to verify you had the correct amount of fluid in? I did this on my 4R, and assume the process is the same for the LC.

 

[electro992]

Yes, you warm the truck up until the trans fluid temperature is within a certain range (check via Techstream, can also do by shorting pins on the OBD port) and then fill until you get fluid out of the overflow port.

Followed the instructions here. Even though this is for middle east trucks that dont come with the 3UR, it worked fine on my '10 LX.

GSIC - Global Service Information Center

 

[Atx100]

I just spoke with Service at my local Lexus Dealership and asked for a quote on a transmission flush. He told me 2005's don't really need to be flushed because of the type of fluid that's used....he then went on to say he's only seen 1 LX ever come in with tranny issues and in most cases changing the fluid creates more issues. Am I crazy to think that this guy is completely wrong? My LX is at 98k and I assumed ATF is part of 90k maintenance...

 

[Malleus]

No, you're not crazy. The dealerships don't consider owners after 3-5 years in their business model calculations.

Some dealerships are maintenance mills, some aren't. Those that are push the services, those that aren't don't, don't have the gear, and justify their business model by telling customers that ask for the service they don't need it.

You can get better service from a Toyota dealership, for service after your warranty has expired, in my opinion. They live on their maintenance fees; they don't have the premium surcharges the Lexus dealerships have to fall back on.

That being said, no fluid is lifetime, even if it's stored in a bottle. It's in the gearcase to mitigate friction-induced wear, which results in free particulate. The filter eventually becomes clogged with this particulate, and the fluid solids after it starts to break down, and then the particulates are suspended in solution. They travel around inside the gearcase, eating up everything they contact, and if left long enough, will cause more damage than normal friction wear.

In old transmissions, the sludge which built up as a result of fluid breakdown and metal wear tended to fill in the gaps as the spacers and washers wore, so flushing the gearcase did cause problems when it was removed. I don't believe this is the case today, although I don't have any evidence to support my belief. I base my opinion on the changes in materials and fluids, today's versus yesterday's, and what I know about material science.

My LX570 just turned 100k. I had all the OEM fluids changed at 95k. They were all nasty. The various systems' operation don't seem any different to me, but I know it's cleaner in there.

 

[apdxyk]

..he then went on to say he's only seen 1 LX ever come in with tranny issues and in most cases changing the fluid creates more issues..

'he has seen one' [singular] & in most cases [plural] - utter lack of talent, when it comes to BS-ing..

On a side note: ENEOS Import ATF - Model T-W for true connoisseurs of exotic fluids

 

[studawg]

Someone help me out here, is there a drain plug and a fill plug on our transmissions? Can we do just a simple drain and fill?

 

[Malleus]

 

[linuxgod]

Someone help me out here, is there a drain plug and a fill plug on our transmissions? Can we do just a simple drain and fill?

The fluid change instructions say to do just this - drain the pan and refill it. That's about 3 quarts out of 12 total, which seems hardly worth it. If you opened a beer and it was skunky, would you pour out 3oz of it and replace it with fresh beer, or would you pour out the entire thing and drink the fresh one? I thought so.

I ended up going to the dealer and they did a 12 quart full fluid exchange. They charged about $125 for the labor. I'm sure you can do it yourself with the transmission lines but my mechanic was afraid if he didn't get the fluid level right as he was doing the exchange he might cause excess transmission wear. Supposedly the dealer had a machine they hook up to do the full exchange which ensures an even fluid level. Paying for an hour of labor once every few years for this seemed worth it to me, but then I don't have a garage to work in.

 

[40Man]

The fluid change instructions say to do just this - drain the pan and refill it. That's about 3 quarts out of 12 total, which seems hardly worth it. If you opened a beer and it was skunky, would you pour out 3oz of it and replace it with fresh beer, or would you pour out the entire thing and drink the fresh one? I thought so.

I ended up going to the dealer and they did a 12 quart full fluid exchange. They charged about $125 for the labor. I'm sure you can do it yourself with the transmission lines but my mechanic was afraid if he didn't get the fluid level right as he was doing the exchange he might cause excess transmission wear. Supposedly the dealer had a machine they hook up to do the full exchange which ensures an even fluid level. Paying for an hour of labor once every few years for this seemed worth it to me, but then I don't have a garage to work in.

The dealer should hook up a techstream (or sst tool), run the trasmission to the proper temp and drain the overflow plug or add if necessary. No other way to do it properly and ensure exact levels.