Do I really need an LT rated tire? (1 Viewer)

[LCMemphis]

Trying to decide on Nitto Ridge Grappler......285/60/18 in XL rating...or LT285/65/18. Issue isn't price but comfort, handling, and noise. Seems like the XL is plenty adequate and it's only 46 Lbs. vs 58lbs. I don't plan on any lifts, etc as I have a dedicated trail rig.

95% of driving on the pavement and I might tow a boat or UTV about 10 times a year..only 60 miles each way. Thoughts??? Thanks in advance

 

[Tex68w]

The 285/65's are an E-rated tire so there will definitely be a difference in ride quality, personally I don't think it' that big of a deal but I am used to driving around in solid axle, one-ton HD trucks with 37's so I am a bad reference. The 285/65 is also 1"+ taller than the 285/60, personally I'd rather have the larger tire. All of that said, I don't think that you would be missing anything by going with the XL tire.

Discount shows the 285/60 at 48lbs and the 285/65 at 60lbs, still a 12lb difference. Also note the max PSI differences and load ratings as well. The 285/60 has a 50psi max and a 120 load rating which is 3068 per tire where the 285/65 has a 80psi max and a 125 load rating which is nearly 500lbs more at 3638. So keep that in mind should you find yourself towing anything more than that UTV with a fully loaded truck and multiple passengers. You might be pushing it depending on the total weight of that UTV and trailer.

 

[Markuson]

PS. Edit:
Just realized you have no trail plans for that truck. Man, Ridge Grapplers are heavy and a pretty aggressive tire for an AT. If you don’t intend to wheel them, I’d probable look to a lighter tire.
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Original post:
I personally find my E rated Ridge Grapplers to be super comfortable. Just do street pressure according to @gaijin and all but the pickiest noise folks will be pretty happy.

On the trail, they air down and spread nicely. Not too stiff to deform...

Comfort issues on my truck have more to do with preload in front, springs in rear, and compression/rebound settings. Tires are not really a thing for ride quality in my experience—unless some tire shop super-pressurized them as some tend to do.

 

[gaijin]

Trying to decide on Nitto Ridge Grappler......285/60/18 in XL rating...or LT285/65/18. Issue isn't price but comfort, handling, and noise. Seems like the XL is plenty adequate and it's only 46 Lbs. vs 58lbs. I don't plan on any lifts, etc as I have a dedicated trail rig.

95% of driving on the pavement and I might tow a boat or UTV about 10 times a year..only 60 miles each way. Thoughts??? Thanks in advance

If your primary concerns are comfort, handling and noise, then I don't think you would be happy with the LT285/65R18 Ridge Grapplers. In all three categories it will be worse than the ISO-Metric 285/60R18 version.

Three factors contribute to this:

1. Recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressure (RCTIP). Each wheel/tire combination has a "spring rate" which is a major contributor to your "comfort" criterion. The lower the tire pressure, the softer the tire's spring rate - conversely, the higher the tire pressure, the harder the tire's spring rate. Softer spring rates feel more comfortable. The RCTIP for the 285/60R18 tires is 34psi - essentially the same as the OEM P285/60R18 tires @ their RCTIP of 33psi. The RCTIP for the LT285/65R18 tires is 42psi - this will result in a harder/stiffer ride that will undoubtedly be subjectively less comfortable.

2. Tire weight and size. The OEM P285/60R18 tires on my 2013LC weigh approx. 42LB and have an overall diameter of approx. 31.5 Inches. Any tire that is heavier than stock, or larger in diameter than stock, will exhibit slower acceleration, longer braking distances, worse gas mileage and more sluggish handling (e.g. emergency evasion maneuver). That's just the fact of it. I am not saying that you can not choose a larger/heavier tire, but just be aware of the compromises. The 285/60R18 Ridge Grappler at 47.64LB is a little more than 5LB heavier than stock with approx. the same diameter of 31.46 Inches. The LT285/65R18 version at 58.33LB is a little more than 16LB heavier than stock and at 32.56 Inches is about an Inch larger in diameter.

3. Tread design. There are folks who dedicate their lives to designing tire treads - I'm not one of them. However, one general rule of thumb when comparing relatively conservative on-road tread design with All-Terrain/Off-Road tread design is that the more aggressive the tread design, the noisier it will be. So, both versions of the Ridge Grappler will be noisier thanh your stock tires - you just have to decide if that is acceptable.

I would like to suggest one more selection criterion for you to think about: durability. By durability I mean a tire's resistance to cuts, punctures and other potentially catastrophic failures caused by such cases as hitting a pot hole, running over a curb, running over a nail, etc. In all cases, the LT-Metric tire will be less likely to fail and thus exhibit greater durability.

HTH

 

[RTaylor]

Look at these pavement friendly options: Michelin AT2 or Geolander AT G015

 

[chilibit]

Post withdrawn.

 

[bloc]

I have LT-E rated 285/65/18 KO2s on my truck and frankly hate them. As Gaijin points out, there are multiple factors, and after experimentation I've settled on tire pressure being the biggest one. The weight of the tire doesn't help, but when I run them down to the factory P-rated inflation pressure (WHICH IS NOT ENOUGH FOR THESE TIRES) the ride is at least acceptable. But at the 42PSI that is needed to maintain the same load rating as the stock P-metric tires at the factory pressure.. they suck. Original bushings, but all new factory shocks, btw. Sharp bumps will even elicit a harmonic out of the suspension that can make the headlights shake. My stock tires were a totally different realm of comfort.

If I were daily driving this truck I'd swap back to stock size or something I could find in P-metric.. I hate the ride that much. But since this thing will mostly get used for trips and a solid AT is necessary for that, it isn't worth the money I'd have to pay to go back to stock size. When I wear these out? I'll find something in P-metric and I REALLY look forward to lowering the pressures significantly.

 

[Tex68w]

Look for a D-rated option in the sizes you are considering OP.

 

[40Man]

The Michelin LTX a very good on road tire. Very quiet and good, long-lasting tread. If I didn't go offroad they are what I would run in XL.

 

[bloc]

Look for a D-rated option in the sizes you are considering OP.

For the record a D-rated tire will need similar higher pressures and only save a small amount of weight. IMO they are still a big departure from the stock P-metric in ride quality.

 

[Tex68w]

For the record a D-rated tire will need similar higher pressures and only save a small amount of weight. IMO they are still a big departure from the stock P-metric in ride quality.

I love them on the LX and for what it's worth, I run 275/70/17 E-rated tires on the 4Runner and I don't mind the ride at all. Each manufacturer is different and ride is relative to each individual person. I wouldn't sway someone away from an E-rated tire especially on a 6,000lb SUV like these. Now in this case, the OP wants to tow light a few times a year, has no desire for a lift, and cares about his ride quality, I agree that he should be looking at the Michelin.

 

[bloc]

I love them on the LX and for what it's worth, I run 275/70/17 E-rated tires on the 4Runner and I don't mind the ride at all. Each manufacturer is different and ride is relative to each individual person. I wouldn't sway someone away from an E-rated tire especially on a 6,000lb SUV like these. Now in this case, the OP wants to tow light a few times a year, has no desire for a lift, and cares about his ride quality, I agree that he should be looking at the Michelin.

What pressure?

Gaijin is our resident tire-pressure-nerd (I mean that in a good way) and does a good job of pointing out the surprisingly often overlooked fact that an LT tire needs significantly higher pressure than the P-metrics that come on most SUVs. As stated above it is the higher pressure that is mostly responsible for my drop in ride quality.

But yes, LTXs are on TONS of SUVs because they are a truly great all-around tire.

 

[Tex68w]

What pressure?

Gaijin is our resident tire-pressure-nerd (I mean that in a good way) and does a good job of pointing out the surprisingly often overlooked fact that an LT tire needs significantly higher pressure than the P-metrics that come on most SUVs. As stated above it is the higher pressure that is mostly responsible for my drop in ride quality.

But yes, LTXs are on TONS of SUVs because they are a truly great all-around tire.

Well I am not running any P-rated, so I can't chime in there but I am aware that they need significantly more pressure. On the 2018 TRD Pro 4Runner I am running BFG KO2's in a 275/70/17 and I have 38psi in them at the moment. It sees highway speeds at 55-70mph daily over 35 miles round trip to work and back and then we hit the beach nearly every weekend. It's certainly a less compliant ride than it was with the stock 265 Nitto's but the handling is better, the nose dive is less, and the looks and off-road performance have improved greatly.

We only have a few days on the 275/60/20's on the LX and they are currently set to 40psi. It has seen very little highway use other than the 40 mile trip home from Discount Tire early this week. Around town they have been great and I have zero complaints about the ride quality, if anything it has improved in all respects less the noise added which has only been ever so slightly louder.

 

[TeCKis300]

Trying to decide on Nitto Ridge Grappler......285/60/18 in XL rating...or LT285/65/18. Issue isn't price but comfort, handling, and noise. Seems like the XL is plenty adequate and it's only 46 Lbs. vs 58lbs. I don't plan on any lifts, etc as I have a dedicated trail rig.

95% of driving on the pavement and I might tow a boat or UTV about 10 times a year..only 60 miles each way. Thoughts??? Thanks in advance

Great points already touched on by all. Couple more.

1. Both tires are going to have way more load capacity capability than the stock P-metric tire. Which already is capable of the full rated capacities of the LC. So even the XL will handle more than anything you would likely ever load/tow, and then some.
2. Anything in Nitto Ridge Grappler flavor, is going to have more durability than the stock passenger highway tire.

An LT tire is going to be superfluous to your needs, at the detriment to the qualities you prioritize.

 

[LALC]

Check out the 305/60/18 Nitto Grappler AT (SL) or G2 (XL). I haven't personally tried them, but reports are they fit and that's what I intend to change to when I get my next set of tires. I currently run 285/60/18 D rated KO2's which I switched to from the E rated 275/70/18, which were too rough for me.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have LT-E rated 285/65/18 KO2s on my truck and frankly hate them. As Gaijin points out, there are multiple factors, and after experimentation I've settled on tire pressure being the biggest one. The weight of the tire doesn't help, but when I run them down to the factory P-rated inflation pressure (WHICH IS NOT ENOUGH FOR THESE TIRES) the ride is at least acceptable. But at the 42PSI that is needed to maintain the same load rating as the stock P-metric tires at the factory pressure.. they suck. Original bushings, but all new factory shocks, btw. Sharp bumps will even elicit a harmonic out of the suspension that can make the headlights shake. My stock tires were a totally different realm of comfort.

If I were daily driving this truck I'd swap back to stock size or something I could find in P-metric.. I hate the ride that much. But since this thing will mostly get used for trips and a solid AT is necessary for that, it isn't worth the money I'd have to pay to go back to stock size. When I wear these out? I'll find something in P-metric and I REALLY look forward to lowering the pressures significantly.

@gaijin is welcome to further school me on this...

IMO, there's leeway to adjust pressures to suit your comfort needs. Understanding that the pressures he recommends are for the full capacity/performance envelop of the vehicle.

It's a matter of tire heat.

Unless you're loaded to max capacities, driving max rated speed, and under grueling max summer temperatures, you're not going to be anywhere near those tire temp thresholds. Therefore one can take some liberties to adjust. With the understanding that if you were to load heavy/tow and sprint across the desert in summertime, that you should absolutely adjust to his recommendations.

 

[bloc]

@gaijin is welcome to further school me on this...

IMO, there's leeway to adjust pressures to suit your comfort needs. Understanding that the pressures he recommends are for the full capacity/performance envelop of the vehicle.

It's a matter of tire heat.

Unless you're loaded to max capacities, driving max rated speed, and under grueling max summer temperatures, you're not going to be anywhere near those tire temp thresholds. Therefore one can take some liberties to adjust. With the understanding that if you were to load heavy/tow and sprint across the desert in summertime, that you should absolutely adjust to his recommendations.

Good points about not needing ALL of the pressure, but I did run closer to 37 for a while and noticed my highway mileage drop slightly. I took this as a sign I was better off running the rated pressure.

 

[gaijin]

@gaijin is welcome to further school me on this...

IMO, there's leeway to adjust pressures to suit your comfort needs. Understanding that the pressures he recommends are for the full capacity/performance envelop of the vehicle.

It's a matter of tire heat.

Unless you're loaded to max capacities, driving max rated speed, and under grueling max summer temperatures, you're not going to be anywhere near those tire temp thresholds. Therefore one can take some liberties to adjust. With the understanding that if you were to load heavy/tow and sprint across the desert in summertime, that you should absolutely adjust to his recommendations.

I'm sure you're aware of the concepts of static loading and dynamic loading. In this case, it is the difference between running down the road in a straight line on an even surface and performing an emergency maneuver, hitting a pot hole or running over a curb.

Never hit a bump or make a turn? Sure, go ahead and reduce the pressure. But that never happens in real life, does it?

Tire temperature is an unreliable indicator of load limit. If temperature were a real criterion for taking "some liberties" with tire pressure, then when it's -25 DegF out we should be able to run really low pressures in our tires, right? Wrong.

I'm not going to get sucked into a lengthy, non-productive back and forth over this. Suffice it to say that there are a lot of engineering considerations that go into the Recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressures Toyota puts on the door placard of our trucks. By engineers who know what they are doing. The recommendations I make are based on those pressures. Use them, or don't. But if you decide to run a lower pressure on the road, just be aware that you will increase the vulnerability of your tires to failure.

HTH

 

[TeCKis300]

^I'd knew you'd have some good schooling. Thanks.

It's interesting to think about static/dynamic loading with some of the tire liberties that we take. We mod. We take liberties. Myself included.

 

[Chrisleduc1]

^I'd knew you'd have some good schooling. Thanks.

It's interesting to think about static/dynamic loading with some of the tire liberties that we take. We mod. We take liberties. Myself included.

Ordered some AT3Ws today, in 305/55R20. Going to mount them on my machines black AR910 +25 wheels when they arrive next week, before the Goat goes in for the winch and supercharger. All thanks to your introduction. The reviews on those tires are some of the best I have ever seen! Almost impossible to find a complaint!