DIY: Telescoping Column Motor Removal/Repair (2 Viewers)
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Hi people,
my name is Tomás, I´m living in Spain and I own a ´98 HDJ100. From time to time I read a little bit in this forum, but never registered as user until today, because I want to give you some information relating to the topic of this thread. As you easily can see, my english writing is far away from being perfect, so I just want to give you some short hints:
The telescopic motor can be repaired, or at least I could repair mine succesfully: This item worked last time one or two years ago, and while adjusting the steering column there was the typical stick-slip-sound, like a high-frequent vibration. After removing the motor from the car I opened it, I found the same dark-brown shmu powder that can be seen on a photo in one of the first postings of this thread. After marking the position of each "discs" inside, I dismanteled the whole motor, this is easy, removing the "Seeger-ring" that holds the discs on the motor shaft, but be careful, the second of the discs is of a spring-type, so if you don´t take care it can pop out and hide itself in some dark and inaccesible workshop corner. The first disc with the magnetic ring is being used with a corresponding (hall?)sensor in the motor-housing for positioning or motor-movement detection.
Take off all the discs/rings, you also can unscrew the last one, but it is not necesary, there is no serviceable part in/under it. This ring is the "heart of the motor" with the small "feet" and some "antennas" on it, where the HF-signal from the driver unit is coupled in, causing a coordinated movement of the feet that are "stepping" on the brown cover-material of the aluminium disc, making the shaft rotate. Instead of removing this disc, you can blow it out with compressed air (be careful with the flexible printed circuit attached to the disc).
When saw the motor´s mecanism, I supposed that the motor was not more working because of the loosen brown covering material, so there is not enough friction between the small "feet" and it´s counterpart. So I put all together again, the cleaned discs and added a 15/22/0,1mm shim (one is working fine on my motor, but you can experiment with a thicker shim), then put a new Seeger-ring (15mm-shaft-type) to hold all together. Mounting the Seeger-ring was the most difficult part, because you have to press all the items together against the spring-disc and then put the ring in it´s groove. I first tried to do this pressing with a round tube of 15mm ID the Seeger-ring into it´s place, but this didn´t worked well. So I cut out a section in a larger tube, pressing the parts together with this one and accessing through the hole to put the on the shaft pre-mounted Seeger-ring in it´s place. Once you know how, it´s easy. But I recommend to buy 4 or 5 Seeger-rings, maybe the first ones will bend while you learn how to mount them
Done this, put the motor´s housing and bend the 4 sheet metal noses to close the housing (maybe I stated wrong before, it´s possible that THIS one is the most difficult part). You also can connect the motor without the housing closed to test it´s function. Important: You shouldn´t be able to turn the motor by hand, there MUST BE friction.
Now, the second part of the repair, the worky-one:
In my opinion these motors will lose their function when there is too much friction on the steering-column´s telescopic mecanism. I was not able to move the telescopic tube manually, so I concluded that this was the problem that causes the telescopic-motor loosing it´s function, working a long time against a blocked telescoping mecanism, causing excessive wear in the dark brown material the motors "feet" are stepping on. Solution: Dismount the whole steering column, dismantle it, clean up everything, put it together again, mount it in your car, mount the telescopic motor and be lucky with a working telescopic mecanism as smooth as in the car´s first year.
It´s some work, but not of the difficult type. I found a lot of a yellowish lubricating material, sticking on all "moving" and not-moving items. It can be removed using special cleaning-gasoline; breake-cleaner doesn´t work. After cleaning and inspecting all the parts of damage or wear, at re-assembling I lubricated all moving parts with SKF food-grade grease (I don´t like the "normal" greases smell in the car), now especially the telescopic-tubes were easyly moveable by hand; with the yellow shmu this was not possible.
I hope that this information will be useful for somebody; if there are questions, ask me, I will try to answer them.
Best regards, Tomás
my name is Tomás, I´m living in Spain and I own a ´98 HDJ100. From time to time I read a little bit in this forum, but never registered as user until today, because I want to give you some information relating to the topic of this thread. As you easily can see, my english writing is far away from being perfect, so I just want to give you some short hints:
The telescopic motor can be repaired, or at least I could repair mine succesfully: This item worked last time one or two years ago, and while adjusting the steering column there was the typical stick-slip-sound, like a high-frequent vibration. After removing the motor from the car I opened it, I found the same dark-brown shmu powder that can be seen on a photo in one of the first postings of this thread. After marking the position of each "discs" inside, I dismanteled the whole motor, this is easy, removing the "Seeger-ring" that holds the discs on the motor shaft, but be careful, the second of the discs is of a spring-type, so if you don´t take care it can pop out and hide itself in some dark and inaccesible workshop corner. The first disc with the magnetic ring is being used with a corresponding (hall?)sensor in the motor-housing for positioning or motor-movement detection.
Take off all the discs/rings, you also can unscrew the last one, but it is not necesary, there is no serviceable part in/under it. This ring is the "heart of the motor" with the small "feet" and some "antennas" on it, where the HF-signal from the driver unit is coupled in, causing a coordinated movement of the feet that are "stepping" on the brown cover-material of the aluminium disc, making the shaft rotate. Instead of removing this disc, you can blow it out with compressed air (be careful with the flexible printed circuit attached to the disc).
When saw the motor´s mecanism, I supposed that the motor was not more working because of the loosen brown covering material, so there is not enough friction between the small "feet" and it´s counterpart. So I put all together again, the cleaned discs and added a 15/22/0,1mm shim (one is working fine on my motor, but you can experiment with a thicker shim), then put a new Seeger-ring (15mm-shaft-type) to hold all together. Mounting the Seeger-ring was the most difficult part, because you have to press all the items together against the spring-disc and then put the ring in it´s groove. I first tried to do this pressing with a round tube of 15mm ID the Seeger-ring into it´s place, but this didn´t worked well. So I cut out a section in a larger tube, pressing the parts together with this one and accessing through the hole to put the on the shaft pre-mounted Seeger-ring in it´s place. Once you know how, it´s easy. But I recommend to buy 4 or 5 Seeger-rings, maybe the first ones will bend while you learn how to mount them
Done this, put the motor´s housing and bend the 4 sheet metal noses to close the housing (maybe I stated wrong before, it´s possible that THIS one is the most difficult part). You also can connect the motor without the housing closed to test it´s function. Important: You shouldn´t be able to turn the motor by hand, there MUST BE friction.Now, the second part of the repair, the worky-one:
In my opinion these motors will lose their function when there is too much friction on the steering-column´s telescopic mecanism. I was not able to move the telescopic tube manually, so I concluded that this was the problem that causes the telescopic-motor loosing it´s function, working a long time against a blocked telescoping mecanism, causing excessive wear in the dark brown material the motors "feet" are stepping on. Solution: Dismount the whole steering column, dismantle it, clean up everything, put it together again, mount it in your car, mount the telescopic motor and be lucky with a working telescopic mecanism as smooth as in the car´s first year.
It´s some work, but not of the difficult type. I found a lot of a yellowish lubricating material, sticking on all "moving" and not-moving items. It can be removed using special cleaning-gasoline; breake-cleaner doesn´t work. After cleaning and inspecting all the parts of damage or wear, at re-assembling I lubricated all moving parts with SKF food-grade grease (I don´t like the "normal" greases smell in the car), now especially the telescopic-tubes were easyly moveable by hand; with the yellow shmu this was not possible.
I hope that this information will be useful for somebody; if there are questions, ask me, I will try to answer them.
Best regards, Tomás
Does anyone have a diagram or a picture of the internals of the tilt motor? I've pulled mine apart and can't remember the order the wheels were in place.. Doh..
You are awesome, thank you!
Just read your last post & learned there needs to be resistance. A lot. So now I'm trying to shim it, but it eats away the material between the little feet fixed gear and the one above. Not sure if without the coating the metal-metal contact will last
I hope this is the correct order)
Here you can see the material being eaten away by the teeth of the left most part, and after a bit of sanding with a 120 paper - experimenting really (bottom side of the first from left gear on picture above). If this gear was sourceable, I think all of these motors could be revived.
It's an ultrasonic motor by the way
)
Here you can see the material being eaten away by the teeth of the left most part, and after a bit of sanding with a 120 paper - experimenting really (bottom side of the first from left gear on picture above). If this gear was sourceable, I think all of these motors could be revived.
It's an ultrasonic motor by the way
forgot the text:
from bottom:
- disc/ring with "legs", bolted to the motor housing
- aluminium disc with brown (weared?) coating towards the "legs"
- steel shim
- insert here additional shim if necesary
- spring disc, I don´t remember at this moment the orientation, but it´s self-explicating
- sheed metal disc, with brown ring facing towards the Seeger-ring
- Seeger-ring
from bottom:
- disc/ring with "legs", bolted to the motor housing
- aluminium disc with brown (weared?) coating towards the "legs"
- steel shim
- insert here additional shim if necesary
- spring disc, I don´t remember at this moment the orientation, but it´s self-explicating
- sheed metal disc, with brown ring facing towards the Seeger-ring
- Seeger-ring
You sanded the aluminium side? Or the brown coating? The brown (weared) coating side is facing towards the "legs", if it wasn´t this way, the brown coating doesn´t make any sense. The face you are showing in the second image is the upward side.
It´s a subtype of ultrasonic motor, If I´m not errating it is a traveling-wave motor. Also it is very interesting to see the inside of the ECU for the two motors, packed with HF-electronics:
It´s a subtype of ultrasonic motor, If I´m not errating it is a traveling-wave motor. Also it is very interesting to see the inside of the ECU for the two motors, packed with HF-electronics:
Wow, that's some piece of engineering!
I've sanded the side where the brown material was probably 15 years ago - so the bottom side.
I'm now cutting shims out of a coca-cola can, but doesn't look like it makes a difference
I'm now on the second one (+4 original shims)I have a feeling that without the material - that has worn off, the friction is too big to move the assembly.
Aaaa, I see what you're saying I might have the plate upside down!
I might have the plate upside down!
But if I install it the other way around the white plastic in the middle is in the way and catches on the 3 screws of the bottom part..
It looks like this if I install it the brown side down
Okay. I think I give up. The more shims the worse it gets for me. I think the problem is that the original coating has worn away from the face where the second gear contacts the teeth on the stationary first gear. And this creates too much friction to turn the shaft. Hell it even smokes a bit.
I can't think of a way of recoating it, nail polish is the best that comes to my mind, but that would probably wear away in a second.
So looks like for me the only way to go is to get another motor. FML
Thanks for the inputs HDJ100inSpain!
I can't think of a way of recoating it, nail polish is the best that comes to my mind, but that would probably wear away in a second.
So looks like for me the only way to go is to get another motor.
FMLThanks for the inputs HDJ100inSpain!
Gave it a last shot. I think one of the PO's tried to hack it already, that's why everything was a bit strange.
The white little insert can be removed & turned around - so can the brown gasket - which I don't know if it was original or not - mine is rubber. I managed to glue it on the other side, but still didn't work. Then I've cut 2-3 new gaskets or whatever it's called from rubber and from silicone, tried shimming, but no happiness. Best I can get is about 1/10 of a turn.
So there are two routes to take, more like 3:
1, leave it as is - it wasn't working before anyway
2, buy a new one ($$$ - and I should change the CV's, and repair the AHC first)
3, find someone who can machine a new gasket out of some "good" material. I don't know the dimensions though, not even how it's supposed to look like, so it would be a long process to get it right probably.
The white little insert can be removed & turned around - so can the brown gasket - which I don't know if it was original or not - mine is rubber. I managed to glue it on the other side, but still didn't work. Then I've cut 2-3 new gaskets or whatever it's called from rubber and from silicone, tried shimming, but no happiness. Best I can get is about 1/10 of a turn.
So there are two routes to take, more like 3:
1, leave it as is - it wasn't working before anyway
2, buy a new one ($$$ - and I should change the CV's, and repair the AHC first)
3, find someone who can machine a new gasket out of some "good" material. I don't know the dimensions though, not even how it's supposed to look like, so it would be a long process to get it right probably.
Now I see that it is the tilt-motor you are working on. Looking at your first photos I was wondering about the different shaft comparing with my motor. But anyway, I think that inside these motors are built up in a very similar manner.
It seems to me that there is something wrong in the way or the order you are mounting the pieces on the shaft. Where do you put the shims? You write that the more shims you mount, the worser the result - this doesn´t make sense for me. Looking at the last picture you posted, I see a lot of space between the small "feet" and their contact counterpart - maybe you put some shim here? The shim has to be on the top side of this aluminium disc. I can´t beleive that there was some time ago a coating so thick to fill all the space between the "feet" and the aluminium disc.
The aluminium disc of my motor didn´t have what you name "gasket", maybe that was a modification Toyota made in the later series of these motors. I think this "brown something" is covering the circunferential area where the spring disc makes contact with the aluminium disc.
Maybe you mounted the wrong way the small white insert and therefore there is no contact between the feet and it´s counterpart? Remark: If there is such a bis distance between this two pieces, your motor never could work - or if it was working, the last time it was working there still must have been contact between the parts, if not, motor doesn´t rotate. And the brown material will not wear itself without a working motor.
Look at the first photo I posted, this was before unassembling the motor, there was still contact between legs and aluminium disc (with brown coated contact surface). But the contact pressure was too low let the motor rotate. Therefore the shims on the _upside_ of this disc to press it with higher force towards the feet.
It seems to me that there is something wrong in the way or the order you are mounting the pieces on the shaft. Where do you put the shims? You write that the more shims you mount, the worser the result - this doesn´t make sense for me. Looking at the last picture you posted, I see a lot of space between the small "feet" and their contact counterpart - maybe you put some shim here? The shim has to be on the top side of this aluminium disc. I can´t beleive that there was some time ago a coating so thick to fill all the space between the "feet" and the aluminium disc.
The aluminium disc of my motor didn´t have what you name "gasket", maybe that was a modification Toyota made in the later series of these motors. I think this "brown something" is covering the circunferential area where the spring disc makes contact with the aluminium disc.
Maybe you mounted the wrong way the small white insert and therefore there is no contact between the feet and it´s counterpart? Remark: If there is such a bis distance between this two pieces, your motor never could work - or if it was working, the last time it was working there still must have been contact between the parts, if not, motor doesn´t rotate. And the brown material will not wear itself without a working motor.
Look at the first photo I posted, this was before unassembling the motor, there was still contact between legs and aluminium disc (with brown coated contact surface). But the contact pressure was too low let the motor rotate. Therefore the shims on the _upside_ of this disc to press it with higher force towards the feet.
Ignore the last picture, as that was just to show what happens if I assemble it incorrectly - That was before I knew the white plastic can be popped out & the aluminium disc can be installed the other way around.
It is indeed the tilt motor. The problem is, that no matter which face I install the "gasket" - which is made out of rubber, the lip/face of the metal aluminum plate is running on the teeth (grinding it off), and not the "gasket" - or whatever it is called.
Originally the gasket was installed in the groove of the aluminum disc. But not sure if this is factory, or has been altered by the PO.
Like such, after pulling the white plastic from the center & the "gasket" that was glued into the groove:
I then started experimenting, cutting out silicone/rubber and glueing it to the "right side" of the aluminium disc - that is, the other side where the "gasket" was originally glued onto, as this is the only way it won't touch the 3 bolts, like such:
But the teeth is still running on the edge circumference of the aluminium disc - you can clearly see the black witness mark on it. And it is grinding away the aluminium as it turns.
Either the silicone/rubber is not the proper material to use (it absorbs the vibrations produced by the motor probably), or the shape of it has to be different, but the only way I can make the motor to turn by itself is when the aluminum disc's lip is riding on the teeth below - which I'm sure isn't the way it's supposed to be.
It is indeed the tilt motor. The problem is, that no matter which face I install the "gasket" - which is made out of rubber, the lip/face of the metal aluminum plate is running on the teeth (grinding it off), and not the "gasket" - or whatever it is called.
Originally the gasket was installed in the groove of the aluminum disc. But not sure if this is factory, or has been altered by the PO.
Like such, after pulling the white plastic from the center & the "gasket" that was glued into the groove:
I then started experimenting, cutting out silicone/rubber and glueing it to the "right side" of the aluminium disc - that is, the other side where the "gasket" was originally glued onto, as this is the only way it won't touch the 3 bolts, like such:
But the teeth is still running on the edge circumference of the aluminium disc - you can clearly see the black witness mark on it. And it is grinding away the aluminium as it turns.
Either the silicone/rubber is not the proper material to use (it absorbs the vibrations produced by the motor probably), or the shape of it has to be different, but the only way I can make the motor to turn by itself is when the aluminum disc's lip is riding on the teeth below - which I'm sure isn't the way it's supposed to be.
Hmm, I still don´t understand it!
A question: Is the second photo in post #106 showing the same side of the disc as the photo in post #111? According to the center plastic piece no, but you said that this can be removed and be mount in either way, maybe you turned it from taking first photo to second one?
I´m nearly sure that you messed up with top and bottom side of the disc. What you describe as the "rubber gasket" IMO has to be on the top side of the disc, in the groove. Never on the bottom side, showing towards the stators "feet".
The actuators "feet" definitively must not move on a (relativly soft) rubber surface, if they do so, at movement (take in mind that the feet´s movement is less or more "microscopic") they only will do a massage to the rubber but not move the disc - shaft - steering column. The feet need a hard surface to step on and provoke a movement. OK, in your motor was nothing or very little of the thin coating left, the feet step on. But even stepping on the aluminium surface they should work (maybe not as smooth as with the coating) if there is enough pressure/friction.
The "rubber gasket", I think, is a modification that Toyota/Denso did in a newer series of the motors, maybe to reduce noise/vibration/etc. TSB CP-2020 says "(Mar. 2000) - Tilt Motor and Telescopic Motor lining material has been changed".
See here two photos from when I dismanteled my motor. First photo shows the rotor before taking it off, you can see the groove where in your motor´s one sits the "rubber gasket".
And on this foto you can see the "bottom" side, that one, that is facing towards the stator´s feet.
It seems to me nearly impossible that the disc touches the screws if you mount it the correct way; it only should touch the feet with the outer ring (seen on the photo just above as a thin brown ring).
A question: Is the second photo in post #106 showing the same side of the disc as the photo in post #111? According to the center plastic piece no, but you said that this can be removed and be mount in either way, maybe you turned it from taking first photo to second one?
I´m nearly sure that you messed up with top and bottom side of the disc. What you describe as the "rubber gasket" IMO has to be on the top side of the disc, in the groove. Never on the bottom side, showing towards the stators "feet".
The actuators "feet" definitively must not move on a (relativly soft) rubber surface, if they do so, at movement (take in mind that the feet´s movement is less or more "microscopic") they only will do a massage to the rubber but not move the disc - shaft - steering column. The feet need a hard surface to step on and provoke a movement. OK, in your motor was nothing or very little of the thin coating left, the feet step on. But even stepping on the aluminium surface they should work (maybe not as smooth as with the coating) if there is enough pressure/friction.
The "rubber gasket", I think, is a modification that Toyota/Denso did in a newer series of the motors, maybe to reduce noise/vibration/etc. TSB CP-2020 says "(Mar. 2000) - Tilt Motor and Telescopic Motor lining material has been changed".
See here two photos from when I dismanteled my motor. First photo shows the rotor before taking it off, you can see the groove where in your motor´s one sits the "rubber gasket".
And on this foto you can see the "bottom" side, that one, that is facing towards the stator´s feet.
It seems to me nearly impossible that the disc touches the screws if you mount it the correct way; it only should touch the feet with the outer ring (seen on the photo just above as a thin brown ring).
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Hmm, I still don´t understand it!
A question: Is the second photo in post #106 showing the same side of the disc as the photo in post #111? According to the center plastic piece no, but you said that this can be removed and be mount in either way, maybe you turned it from taking first photo to second one?
I´m nearly sure that you messed up with top and bottom side of the disc. What you describe as the "rubber gasket" IMO has to be on the top side of the disc, in the groove. Never on the bottom side, showing towards the stators "feet".
The actuators "feet" definitively must not move on a (relativly soft) rubber surface, if they do so, at movement (take in mind that the feet´s movement is less or more "microscopic") they only will do a massage to the rubber but not move the disc - shaft - steering column. The feet need a hard surface to step on and provoke a movement. OK, in your motor was nothing or very little of the thin coating left, the feet step on. But even stepping on the aluminium surface they should work (maybe not as smooth as with the coating) if there is enough pressure/friction.
The "rubber gasket", I think, is a modification that Toyota/Denso did in a newer series of the motors, maybe to reduce noise/vibration/etc. TSB CP-2020 says "(Mar. 2000) - Tilt Motor and Telescopic Motor lining material has been changed".
See here two photos from when I dismanteled my motor. First photo shows the rotor before taking it off, you can see the groove where in your motor´s one sits the "rubber gasket".
View attachment 2004394
And on this foto you can see the "bottom" side, that one, that is facing towards the stator´s feet.
View attachment 2004395
It seems to me nearly impossible that the disc touches the screws if you mount it the correct way; it only should touch the feet with the outer ring (seen on the photo just above as a thin brown ring).
Ahh, now I understand it
It was okay how it was, it’s just that all the “brown” material has weared off mine. All. It was only the metal left. And the aluminium is apperantly softer than the brown material was, as it just wore away the aluminium as well. It can’t rotate as it immediately (after half a mm turn) chews into the aluminium and gets stuck.
So the only way to fix it would be to reapply the brown material on the lip of the aluminium disc, but I don’t know what would be hard enough. Maybe i should try some kind of 2part epoxy & sand and polish it to be even and thin enough.
I guess sourcing a disc with a good lip would be impossible
Thanks for all of your help.
Some telescoping motor change notes to hopefully augment what's been written here...
tl/dr: Much easier job with the plastic steering column cover off; tiny flex-head ratchets made it a ton easier to bolt in the motor
Parts
Unusual Tools
Not needed, but handy: I picked this pricey BMW specialty socket up for easily reaching cylinder head gasket bolts, but have found it extremely useful since
tl/dr: Much easier job with the plastic steering column cover off; tiny flex-head ratchets made it a ton easier to bolt in the motor
- I bought the motor from Amayama. $190 (plus shipping in a box with a bunch of other heavy stuff) instead of $302 + shipping from ToyotaPartsDeal.com or $327 from LexusPartsNow.com. (Arrived in 11 days from UAE and if I'm reading it correctly, cheaper shipping than from the US online shops.)
- Stubby Flex-Head Ratchets from Harbor Freight with a few different-depth sockets helped immensely
- I tried to do it without removing the plastic from the steering column, as I am an accomplished tab-breaker and finish-gouger. It is possible to do it from an upside-down orientation with your head jammed in the footwell, but it is difficult. Very hard to thread the drive shaft back into the telescope steering screw. It can be done, but it was misery for me.
- When a second go-round in upside-down mode got too frustrating, I found that the plastic cover around the steering column came off mine EASILY and safely. Removing the plastic had myriad benefits:
- It provided light to areas I couldn't see while upside-down
- While sitting in the driver's seat, I was able to reach down to access and turn the bolts holding the motor in because I could see where I was going through the dash
- It was much easier to thread the drive shaft back into the telescope steering screw - more room for fingers (and arms!)
- I discovered that the bushing under the telescope screw's slider support bracket was shot, and wiggling around when the screw turned -- so I wouldn't have had it working properly without having taken the cover off (see next point).
- Important to synch up the position of the motor and the steering wheel; that is, make sure the motor is run out to the maximum (by operating the motor with the tilt/telescopic switch with the steering wheel fully extended, or, presumably, vice-versa) before connecting the drive shaft to the telescope steering screw. I may have destroyed the bushing under the slider support bracket when I installed the motor the first time and it wasn't synched up with the position of the steering wheel. The motor wanted to keep going after the steering wheel was as far out as it could go, and that stress could have been what destroyed the bushing. Even if that wasn't what happened, it would stress the motor (which already has a limited life) to turn beyond what the telescope screw physically permits.
Parts
- 89232-60021 MOTOR, POWER TELESCOPIC
- 45768-60011 BUSH, TELESCOPIC STEERING
- 45761-60010 SLIDER, TELESCOPIC STEERING
- 45877-60011 SPACER, STEERING COLUMN BRACKET
Unusual Tools
Not needed, but handy: I picked this pricey BMW specialty socket up for easily reaching cylinder head gasket bolts, but have found it extremely useful since
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