Diff Locks or LSD for BJ74

[Radd Cruisers]

Well, from my own experience, and that of running a shop:

We repair more electric lockers than ARBs.

We have installed more ARBs than any other locker.

The younger you are the more tolerant of an auto-locker you will be, once you get a few years on you the auto-locker get pretty tiring and aggravating due to the poor road manners.

I've been running ARBs arguably longer than almost anyone in this section of 'Mud - and yes, I've had a few problems with them, but they are very reliable units. I installed my first unit in 1989. At -30 to -40C they can be very slow to engage as the oil is just too thick and the parts take time to move (it can take quite a lot of time - like minutes, not fractions of a second), but this was with a 1st generation unit. I have not tested the later (better engineered units) in extreme cold.

All the issues we see with ARBs air lockers these days are related to installer errors or installer short-comings. The seals do require some maintenance when they are used a lot, this is not a regular thing and it is not that big a deal.

ARBs are arguably stronger than any of the factory designs that use a long splined axle shaft.


What do I own at the moment: two with cable lockers, one with electric lockers and one with ARBs. If I can get them, I think factory lockers represent excellent value, but ARBs are what I would choose to run if I was going to install any kind of a locker.


~John

 

[Hulsty]

actually, the E/locker isn't as prone.
how do they go pear shaped?
and
to show you what you really know about the elocker, to remove the locker from the housing it needs to be ENGAGED. if it is open then you need to pull the cover on the side of the motor (3 bolts) pull the actuator bolt (one bolt) and you can engage the locker. takes about 3 mins to accomplish and you can pull the locker out.
your buddy needs to start working on his own truck instead of paying a Mech to do the work.

air lines ripped off is the biggest issues but also the air line freezes in the winter so when winter wheeling you don't have the option of ARB engaging, a true PITA when the snow is coming down and you have a steep slippery slop to climb.

other than those issue they seem to do the job for some..

Pear shaped is a metaphor, not a literal thing, ie things turn to s***. Pear shaped must just be an aussie slang thing then ahaha.

Thanks for the correction, I meant when stuck in the disengaged position.

The bulk of the $$$$ for the repair on the E locker was not labour, Toyota price on the actuator was ~$1800. They also wanted $300 for a piece of short wire and a plug which were also damaged. It is more economical to replace with another type of locker.

Agreed airlines freezing is a PITA, though I have only had experience down to about -6c here where no such issue exists.

 

[wongtsenhin]

OK! Can we conclude that factory locker is the best among the aftermarket locker? ARB, TJM or whatever?

 

[crushers]

lets take this discussion a step further,
cost.
a factory locker is fully assembled, a plug and play unit. on a vehicle equiped with factory lockers then drain the fluid, pull the axles, unbolt the old and bolt in the new. done. on vehicles that doesn't have a locker then you need to do the above, on the rear diff you need to cut a notch in the housing and use a long spline axle for the short side. run wiring and switch ... done.
front axle - $1400
rear axle - $3000
switch - $20 if needed
wiring - $20 if needed

a Aussi locker is one of the easiest and cheapest locker there is. rear axle is an hour to install. the front takes longer to tear apart to install.
$400 - done

the ARB starts off cheaper than the factory but you need to set the gears up when you install to the case, you need to run the lines, you need a compressor and switch. it is the seting up of the gears that drives the price up if you are paying a mech to do the work.

locker - front $1100
rear - $1200
air compressor - $300 - $600
bearing kit - ???
Installation of gears to locker, locker to case - 3 hours +/- at mech wages ($60 to $110/hr)
installation of kit to housings and compessor and hoses to vehicle - ??? depends on vehicle
so rear locker is the easiest to install into a cruiser
$1200
$600
$200
$400
--------
$2300 ++

front will take a bit longer

so the savings is?

not worth the hassle in my books.

 

[wongtsenhin]

Wayne, the cost only?
The major concern is the longevity and durability of the factory to aftermarket locker?

 

[letsplaychicken]

Okay, so how about this as a compromise (LSD idea has been trashed by everyone so now I am only looking at lockers):

Front - Auto locker: I have part-time 4wd so would mainly drive in 2WD on road, so no on-road handling issues. cheap, easy to fit, good reliability, engage hubs for offroad use only - are there any downsides in this scenario? I think they are a reliable solution? what brands/models do people suggest?

Rear - Still strugglung to pick between cable, air or elec locker - total cost and reliability are the concerns here.

Anyone running a BJ74 that can offer first hand advice?

Thaks for the help so far, but the thread did lose its way for a bit - just trying to get it back on track

 

[crushers]

i have run 7* series for a while now and had a couple 74s over the years.

front locker, depends on the terrain and this is most important. if you have slippery side hill portions to deal with then a selectable is desirable. if it is mostly flat mud, sand then the Aussi is perfect. vertical gravel, sand, rock then the Aussi works well, if snow, ice or mud with dangerous possibilities then selectable is desireable.

rear locker, i have run welded, electric, limited in the back with no real issues. the welded does make the tires chirp in tight turns, wears the rear tires faster and can cause issues in inexperienced hands on slippery surfaces.
the elec and air have been discussed.

i would run the aussi in the rear if you are on a tight budget. i like them.

also, another consideration for front locker is the birf change when in the wilds. a locker WILL break the birfs much faster and much easier than open.

i like open front and an 8274, it is less messy to run a winch cable than change a birf.

 

[BabyGod]

Best quote of the day.
An open front diff and a M8274
x2...

Followed the same path. Except i'm running a front lsd which i doubt makes any difference.

I rather winch that fix a broken front birfield lol...

 

[Hulsty]

OK! Can we conclude that factory locker is the best among the aftermarket locker? ARB, TJM or whatever?

No LOL! taking into account of thee cold issues on ARB lockers, the rediculous cost issues and problems of a factory E locker, the best would be a aftermarket Eaton E locker.

ELocker Differentials

 

[crushers]

how is the $2200 cost of the front ARB locker installed more than the factory E/locker at $1400??

 

[prado t]

Once again another reason why I enjoy my Cruiser Infancy . I spend a lot of time driving and enjoying them.

The ARBs that are in my 74 work flawlessly. Cold down to -32c . They are expensive , they need a compressor( I have the inflator kit) . In the rainy months I will cycle the compressor. I am very happy with them.

 

[77cruiser77]

I have ARB's in my 40. I had issues with them but I really like them. When it comes time I'll put them in my 77 too. A lot of people here and on different threads, that's right this locker debate is on many threads if you do a search or check the faq in the 40 section, seem to think of the compressor and air tank as a fall back. Myself, find the air tank and compressor as a bonus because you are then able to run air tools and fill your own tires.

 

[bjarni97]

here in iceland the arb locker holds up just fine 44" tires and stil no problems and airlines freezing i havent seen that ín any of the tours i have been in. up to -25Celsius

 

[ganeshbabu]

Hi, I came across this blog recently. I should say that the discussions which you all are having over diff-locks and LSDs are quiet interesting. I use to be a regular off road user in the past. I have submitted this project on a simple diff-locks proposal at Simple and effective Differential lockers for rural transport vehicles | Spark the Rise Indian Projects. It may not be the best solution for active traction aid, but for situations where the vehicle has come to a complete stand-still because one of the wheels is stuck in a low traction surface, my system will come in handy. Without the frictional loses associated with 4/4 or the complexities of CLDs, my proposal would be worth studying. Pl do have a look. Would love to have your views.

 

[ganeshbabu]

Hi, I came across this blog recently. I should say that the discussions which you all are having over diff-locks and LSDs are quiet interesting. I use to be a regular off road user in the past. I have submitted this project on a simple diff-locks here at http://www.sparktherise.com/projectdetail.php?pid=2412. It may not be the best solution for active traction aid, but for situations where the vehicle has come to a complete stand-still because one of the wheels is stuck in a low traction surface, my system will come in handy. Without the frictional loses associated with 4/4 or the complexities of CLDs, my proposal would be worth studying. Pl do have a look. Would love to have your views.

 

[NZCruisers]

i have run 7* series for a while now and had a couple 74s over the years.

front locker, depends on the terrain and this is most important. if you have slippery side hill portions to deal with then a selectable is desirable. if it is mostly flat mud, sand then the Aussi is perfect. vertical gravel, sand, rock then the Aussi works well, if snow, ice or mud with dangerous possibilities then selectable is desireable.

rear locker, i have run welded, electric, limited in the back with no real issues. the welded does make the tires chirp in tight turns, wears the rear tires faster and can cause issues in inexperienced hands on slippery surfaces.
the elec and air have been discussed.

i would run the aussi in the rear if you are on a tight budget. i like them.

also, another consideration for front locker is the birf change when in the wilds. a locker WILL break the birfs much faster and much easier than open.

i like open front and an 8274, it is less messy to run a winch cable than change a birf.

What are birfs? I run an aussi locker in the front of my 91 with 33's and have so far never had a problem , always worked when needed

Your post just got me thinking about these birf things?

 

[cicak]

Hi, I came across this blog recently. I should say that the discussions which you all are having over diff-locks and LSDs are quiet interesting. I use to be a regular off road user in the past. I have submitted this project on a simple diff-locks proposal at Simple and effective Differential lockers for rural transport vehicles | Spark the Rise Indian Projects. It may not be the best solution for active traction aid, but for situations where the vehicle has come to a complete stand-still because one of the wheels is stuck in a low traction surface, my system will come in handy. Without the frictional loses associated with 4/4 or the complexities of CLDs, my proposal would be worth studying. Pl do have a look. Would love to have your views.

Wow not an original Idea but has been done by people before (and will continue to be done) - ONe can also use foot brake and gas pedal at same time and do for all 4 wheels) and what do you propose for the FRONT WHEELS also a handbrake? What about when the handbrake is full of MUD and has worn the shoes completely off which is normal scenario for HANDBRAKEs and MUD? and once all the wheels are off terrafirma (ducks disease short wheels and big arse) what do you propose then the same idea or a WINNCH or a portable CRANE?

and welcome to the forum.







Some guys do this with hydraulics and call them FIDDLE BRAKES

 

[crushers]

birfs - birfields - axle CV joints inside those big balls at the end of the front axle.

 

[ganeshbabu]

Wow not an original Idea but has been done by people before (and will continue to be done) - ONe can also use foot brake and gas pedal at same time and do for all 4 wheels) and what do you propose for the FRONT WHEELS also a handbrake? What about when the handbrake is full of MUD and has worn the shoes completely off which is normal scenario for HANDBRAKEs and MUD? and once all the wheels are off terrafirma (ducks disease short wheels and big arse) what do you propose then the same idea or a WINNCH or a portable CRANE?

and welcome to the forum.







Some guys do this with hydraulics and call them FIDDLE BRAKES

thx cicak! Applying the foot brake while simultaneously working on the gas pedal has not quiet worked out for me. Maybe newer EBD enabled braking systems along with a little knack can be adopted to do this job. I did have a original idea for diff-locking the front axle! When young, I use to want to dismantle the spider gears from the front differentials. The idea was to then achieve a locked differential at the front when the vehicle was selected to 4WD. I was obviously not realizing that the differentials also had to cope with varied rotations reversing from the road! For worn shoes, I would suggest piercing a wheel spanner through one of the hole in the wheel. If the vehicle is leaf spring suspended, the wheel spanner will go lock against it and the sensible wheel will start receiving power. -lol- . Like I'v said my proposal will not be the best solution for active traction aid and definitely not for sports applications. Here in India, rural transport vehicles and trucks are powered by small engines which kind of takes care of traction issues . What we need is a system which will help out when the vehicle is stranded because one of the driven wheels is stuck in mud.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

For ARBs during the winter - as a precaution I purge the tank before it freezes (to get rid of the warmer moisture laden air), then compress the colder dryer air once it freezes.