Diesel Vs. Propane Vs. Gas - HDJ81 Vs. Suburban

[crushers]

Didn't intend to hack on Martin, I've learned lots from his posts also. I always see people refered to buy high-end when a clean unit with average kms will do most people just fine. i just want to be one of the few to encourage those on the fence about a mid priced unit to not be dissuaded. there are those of us with good experiences and inexpensive import cruisers. I don't feel like I've lost anything by not having a warranty or having to do the BEBs myself. Just offering a contrasting opinion

what it really comes down to is this:
if you can afford to loose the money you are investing then take the risk...NEVER invest money you CAN NOT afford to loose.
if you are comfortable will having a few thousand invested and not see the return for weeks to months then go this route, if you lay awake at night worring about the little things then don't
if you can wrench on your own cruisers then go this route, if not then it can be huge money to get things repaired.

i know of many many people that invest in their own imports and are very happy, i know of many others that leave the risk, stress and wrenching to others and are willing to pay extra for the peace of mind...

i read your post and didn't think you were hard on Martin...

 

[crushers]

Have you considered the Isuzu Bighorn, known as the Troopere here in North America? They come with a 4cylinder 3.1L TDI which is supposedly very peppy, thrifty, and well respected down under. They also can be had for a fraction of what an HDJ81 goes for. I'm really intrigued by these units. good luck and once again, no disrespect towards Martin.

i have been watchign the bighorn rigs and i have heard little bad about them... i have just not found one that meets my demands... they are supposed to beasts for power, EXTREMELY reliable and thirsty...i would love to find out for myself if a real nice one comes along...

 

[Dougal]

Have you considered the Isuzu Bighorn, known as the Troopere here in North America? They come with a 4cylinder 3.1L TDI which is supposedly very peppy, thrifty, and well respected down under. They also can be had for a fraction of what an HDJ81 goes for. I'm really intrigued by these units. good luck and once again, no disrespect towards Martin.

Excellent vehicle and one that'll easily out accelerate even the 100 series cruiser with the 1HD-FTE. Easily running rings around the 80 series diesel cruisers.
Being smaller, their fuel economy is significantly better. Very good offroad too. Not landrover good, but still very good.
The downside is, being an electronically managed diesel, they can't be easily tweaked.
The turbos in them do fail occasionally and are a non-servicable item. But the replacements are cheaper than most turbos.

The Mitsubishi delica was mentioned earlier. I do not recommend these vehicles.

 

[crushers]

Very good offroad too. Not landrover good, but still very good.
.

ROTFLMAO!!
said like a true roverhead.
posting that up is brave on a cruiser site... everyone here KNOWS ... from experience ... that Cruisers are far more capable off road then the lowly rover...

out of curiousity, if you are going to run down the Mits do you have some first hand experience to post or is this once again second hand knowledge. remember he never said he was trying to do the Outback Challenge but he wanted a unit to haul his gear in to go surfing.

 

[Dougal]

ROTFLMAO!!
said like a true roverhead.
posting that up is brave on a cruiser site... everyone here KNOWS ... from experience ... that Cruisers are far more capable off road then the lowly rover...

out of curiousity, if you are going to run down the Mits do you have some first hand experience to post or is this once again second hand knowledge. remember he never said he was trying to do the Outback Challenge but he wanted a unit to haul his gear in to go surfing.

I have yet to see a stock landcruiser keep up with a stock defender, discovery or rangerover offroad. I also have yet to meet anyone who seriously claims otherwise.
Your fuel economy claims show quite clearly where your truck gets driven.

I wouldn't buy a mitsubishi van, 4wd or car. Even for surfing.
Apparently the head of Mitsibushi New Zealand doesn't drive one either.

 

[crushers]

I have yet to see a stock landcruiser keep up with a stock defender, discovery or rangerover offroad. I also have yet to meet anyone who seriously claims otherwise.
Your fuel economy claims show quite clearly where your truck gets driven.

then you need to expand your circle of aquaintences. i will put a stock cruiser up against YOUR stock rover with you behind the wheel any day, anywhere in Canada. my choice of stock Cruiser, your completely stock rover. BTW, you do not get a support team to keep the rover running either.

[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't buy a mitsubishi van, 4wd or car. Even for surfing.
Apparently the head of Mitsibushi New Zealand doesn't drive one either. [/QUOTE]

once again i asked a straight question and you evade the answer. so in reality you have NO first hand knowledge of the Mits vehicles but you are quick to make an uniformed opinion. nice.

<i also noticed when i asked you what personal experience you had with Toyota products you evaded that question as well>

 

[toynut]

why not just buy a bj or hj 60 , and spend a little to fix it up i am at $8000 right now for my 60 and it has had almost every thing replaced or rebuilt on it , and its a lhd gets amazing fuel milage and is extremley dependable and simple to work on . i have added power door locks and imobilizer , tint , old man emu suspension , 33x9.5bfg at's , winch bumper . get a 60 if you dont like it sell it , dont buy a burb .

 

[crushers]

damn, that looks nice...
agreed, there ae some old NA 60s floating around and if the body doesn't have to be perfect can be had for realitvly cheap. i had a lady contact me with one forsale here in Calgary that fits your budget...

 

[RHINO]

everyone here KNOWS ... from experience ... that Cruisers are far more capable off road then the lowly rover...

why do ya supose that is crushers? lets have a look under them, 4 tires, solid axles, coil springs, locker f/r. they look the same, i wonder what makes the cruiser better?

 

[Dougal]

then you need to expand your circle of aquaintences. i will put a stock cruiser up against YOUR stock rover with you behind the wheel any day, anywhere in Canada. my choice of stock Cruiser, your completely stock rover. BTW, you do not get a support team to keep the rover running either.

My rover isn't stock, but when it was it left all the landcruisers in the local 4wd club behind.
Look up the RTI and you'll see why. That and the cruisers are too big and heavy to be useful on a tight trail.

A SWB patrol is the clear winner offroad. But a rover will beat a cruiser everytime. Put difflocks in the rover and it'll go places a cruiser with difflocks can't.

If you need a support team to keep a vehicle going, you're obviously a terrible mechanic.

once again i asked a straight question and you evade the answer. so in reality you have NO first hand knowledge of the Mits vehicles but you are quick to make an uniformed opinion. nice.

<i also noticed when i asked you what personal experience you had with Toyota products you evaded that question as well>

You asked a completely irrelevant question. I said I wouldn't recommend a Mitsubishi and I still don't.

 

[Dougal]

why do ya supose that is crushers? lets have a look under them, 4 tires, solid axles, coil springs, locker f/r. they look the same, i wonder what makes the cruiser better?

It's the extra length, width and weight of the cruisers that hamstrings them.
If you lift the cruiser 6" or so you can solve the overhang and rampover problems as well as improving the articulation.

But if you start comparing modified vehicles, where do you stop?

 

[Martin White]

I feel so misunderstood. I originally purchased an HDJ81 because I always wanted a landcruiser and did not want a pile of rust. I have the financial means now to get what I want. I was also attracted to the fuel consumption numbers I saw which I now know are only achieved under ideal circumstances. The 4.2 1HDT still gets great economy considering the mass of an HDJ81, and it's quiet and durable. I'm actually not disappointed. The problem for me was that I believed I should be getting much better consumption figures. After doing more followup with the Aussies and Kiwis (not on this board) and achieving some tanks in the mid to higher 20 mpg imperial range, I am now satisfied there is nothing wrong with my truck. This might explain the "incessant" comment regarding fuel consumption. I am one of those people who wants to know why. I've never been satisfied with generic explanations which, when dug into deaper, result in the asker finding out the answerer really knows very little.

I have never said "DON'T buy a cheap 81." What I have said, to paraphrase, is "be extremely cautious buying a cheap 81." It may in fact be possible to get a decent truck for 15K. However, I do not just pull my observations out of thin air. I know several people who own 81's, and I have seen many of the ones that ATEB has serviced, as well as heard the bills owners with bargain units have had to pay, 2,3, 6 or more months after their "bargain." IF you know what you are getting, or you are comfortable with the risk, fine. Just BE PREPARED for expenses you did not anticipate with that kind of truck. You might get lucky. But probably there will be surprises at some point.

One couple I know with substantial means spent months researching, and they have a relative in Japan in the car business. The finally found their "bargain" unit, and thought I was pretty dumb with what I had done. The result was that after Ciaran got hold of the truck and they pumped over 10K into it, all for a unit with nearly 190K on the odometer, they eventually sold it as problem after problem came up. I think they had about 30K into it and sold it at a substantial loss, and it still had issues and looked pretty shabby.

As for "pouring" money into the truck, that is probably true, though I have gone first class with everything I've done. I did not have to put a $3500 stereo into it, or Tough Dog shocks, and so on. I just like messing with it. Next up is a snorkel. I can't resist. It's on order.

I'm not sure what the "for guys like Martin" comment means. People who want a reliable nice looking vehicle? People who want to go into the purchase being aware of the potential costs? "These people" have dissauded a few? Well, that's a good thing, because no matter what, these trucks are not cheap to fix if there are significant problems. Once they are up to snuff, they're a typical Toyota, but I don't want people to be misled. That's my sole purpose to posting my experiences.

I really like the idea of a Nissan Patrol or Safari, and it would seem the local dealers support them moreso than the HDJ81, though I have not been able to verify this for certain.

 

[crushers]

My rover isn't stock, but when it was it left all the landcruisers in the local 4wd club behind.

LOL!!
i would have to say those Cruiserheads need some more off road experience
[/QUOTE]
Look up the RTI and you'll see why. That and the cruisers are too big and heavy to be useful on a tight trail.
[/QUOTE]
total BS, of course now you will accept my challenge since i am going to be burdened with a heavy, over sized vehicle that is not capable of traversing tight trails. LOL!! bring the pink slip, you won't be needing it when we are finished.


[/QUOTE]
But a rover will beat a cruiser everytime. Put difflocks in the rover and it'll go places a cruiser with difflocks can't.
[/QUOTE]
LOL!! it was stock vs stock, if the cruiser comes with diff lock then so be it.
how many years off raod experience do you have? me... i have a measly 27 years in the mountains which terrain will be VERY close to what you are driving now.

[/QUOTE]
If you need a support team to keep a vehicle going, you're obviously a terrible mechanic.
[/QUOTE]
(or driving a POS vehicle brand)
yep, that is why i don't drive a rover, i don't need a support team.



[/QUOTE]
You asked a completely irrelevant question. I said I wouldn't recommend a Mitsubishi and I still don't.
[/QUOTE]
how is asking a question about "personal experience" irrelevant when running down another vehicle?
in a nut shell, you have NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with either Toyota or Mitsubishi and yet you try and post like your recommendation should be listened to by the masses. IF you are going to post up a recommendation the LEAST you should have is some personal experience with the issue.
you told me not to knock the poster but to point out errors, this is what i am doing.

 

[crushers]

That and the cruisers are too big and heavy to be useful on a tight trail.
.

lets compare a 1994 defender 90 vs a PZJ70
90 series: (http://www.carsales.com.au/car_sales/new_land_rover_20031025_16_17_57.htm)
Length 3990.4 mm.
Width 1790.7 mm.
Height 1990.1 mm.
Wheelbase 2360 mm.
net weight: 1725 kg


land cruiser 70: (Land Cruiser 50th aniversery book)
Length: 3975 mm
Width: 1690 mm
height: 1885 mm
Wheelbase: 2310mm
net weight: 1790 kg


so after a bit of research i am wondering where you are getting your info from where a land cruiser is heavier (143 lbs WOW!!) longer and wider???

care to explain to the masses where i am wrong??

 

[Gold Boy]

you just got to know, what you are buying.

i recently picked up a nice 84 Chevy pickup pickup, it had a profesionally re-built low kms 305 engine and rebuilt TH 700R4 10 bolt posi new aircon, almost show room condition inside and out for $3000 and it runs great.

rebuilt older suburbans can be picked up cheap, yes they don't have great gas millage, but parts are cheap and plentiful, and they are easy to work on.

sorry, can't help it i like older Chevy and TLC... ;p

each to there own.

 

[crushers]

the only Chevy trucks i ever liked where the 68-72... LOVE the body style...

now that would be a sweet surfing truck, 68-72 Sub with a swapped in 6.5...
actually the old 350 got quite reasonable fuel milage before the all the polution crap went in...

 

[Gold Boy]

the only Chevy trucks i ever liked where the 68-72... LOVE the body style...

now that would be a sweet surfing truck, 68-72 Sub with a swapped in 6.5...
actually the old 350 got quite reasonable fuel milage before the all the polution crap went in...

 

[Dougal]

lets compare a 1994 defender 90 vs a PZJ70
90 series: (http://www.carsales.com.au/car_sales/new_land_rover_20031025_16_17_57.htm)
Length 3990.4 mm.
Width 1790.7 mm.
Height 1990.1 mm.
Wheelbase 2360 mm.
net weight: 1725 kg


land cruiser 70: (Land Cruiser 50th aniversery book)
Length: 3975 mm
Width: 1690 mm
height: 1885 mm
Wheelbase: 2310mm
net weight: 1790 kg


so after a bit of research i am wondering where you are getting your info from where a land cruiser is heavier (143 lbs WOW!!) longer and wider???

care to explain to the masses where i am wrong??

I was talking about 80 series.
The 70 series you've just bought up is leaf sprung all round.
http://specs.amayama.com/specs-toyota-land-cruiser-1991-august/8695/ You're willing to put one of those up against a coil sprung defender?

Either way, as I've already said, the SWB patrol is the most capable stock vehicle.

Difflocks on landcruisers were never standard. They were an extra cost option which only a small proportion have.

We all know you have a magical vehicle with amazing fuel economy which beats everything else on the planet. No-one is ever going to convince you otherwise.
But the rest of us are a lot more realistic and secure enough to openly discuss both the positive and negative aspects of our vehicles.

 

[LCdreamin]

actually the old 350 got quite reasonable fuel milage before the all the polution **** went in...

Just wondering....doesnt all this "polllution ****" make mileage better, power worse???

Isn't that the whole point of the pollution control things. Take em off, get more power, but less mileage??

 

[Dougal]

Just wondering....doesnt all this "polllution ****" make mileage better, power worse???

Isn't that the whole point of the pollution control things. Take em off, get more power, but less mileage??

EGR can help economy on a petrol engine. Whether it does or not depends on many many different factors. Disconnecting it on my other car makes no difference.
EGR also switches off under full throttle, when working properly it doesn't hurt power either.

Catalytic converters if working properly have only a marginal effect on power and don't hurt economy.
What did hurt power and economy was the US engineers dropping the compression ratios to meet the first emissions targets.
Now power, fuel economy and emissions are well beyond what was ever acheived before the emissions controls were bought in.