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Diesel gas argument (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter LandCruiserPhil
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That would be the German 79 Series for under ground mining operations. Most large mines have, or are switching to electric - autonomous haul trucks. So it would sense for those mine sites to also have electric pick-ups.
PHH free!
Evdrive |
evdrive.com
And an HZJ79 conversion: EVDrive Commercial Fleet Systems Conversions Pix - PUBLIC
My mileage tracker for the converted 80 and factory BJ74: Both on 315's and both heavy. I think the 80 does really well, even when loaded down, when putting the miles on. In town driving and when off road there is a hit, as with all of them. It's not unusual to get in the mid/high 12 liters per 100km on the highway. The BJ74 is my daily just now, unless in the BJ42 during the summer. White (Toyota Land Cruiser) | Fuelly
gb
maxamillion2345
Franken-80
Just gonna throw this out there...
Most mines are not running autonomous haul trucks, in fact autonomous trucks are rare and largely still in the testing phase. AC drives are common but direct drives are more common and many that run AC have a mix of both. Diesel/Electric haul trucks are vastly different than electric vehicles. To my knowlege there are no diesel electric trucks underground. An all electric truck makes sense underground because of DPM, same as a diesel makes sense UG because of CO. But I beleive that to be developing tech. I really doubt you will see all electric vehicles in surface mining for a long time, if ever.
As an aside, UGs do all sorts of weird things to trucks. I’ve seen a cummins swapped Tacoma with 70 series axles as an ambulance and I ended up with a 1hd out of a 79 that was pulled to swap in an oil cooled deutz.
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By the time my diesel dies, that, but more futuristic and better should be a reasonable swap.
Electric has been used since the 1800's in mining. Electric haul trucks, some with trolley systems. Nevada to the Attacama.
Unfortunately, autonomous equipment is the future. Won't be long until autonomous passenger vehicles are here.
But hey - that's why you have to stock up on Diesel Cruisers while you still can.
I’m going with donkey power.
maxamillion2345
Franken-80
I've worked on and operated a variety of AC drive haul trucks from 90 ton to 240ton but they're all diesel engines driving gen sets. I was referring to EVs though not equipment. I don't think you'll see an batt powered pickup in surface mining. UG the cost of it makes sense, in some regards. The autonomous thing, maybe, but I've been listening to that talk for 15 years. They'll be to a point some day where they can replace some truck drivers but I don't think they'll ever be able to replace the diggers or support equipment. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled diesel gas whatever
I guess I got really lucky. I got my HDJ81 for US$7000. So the initial investment was quite low. It looked like crap but that was easily fixed.
At highway speeds going 70-75 mph mine will do between 19-20 mpg. Where this thing truly shines is offroad. I can basically idle over just about anything with minimum throttle input whereas gassers need a bit more. I get max torque at really low rpm. The other place where the diesel does better is towing. It has a higher capacity for it.
The whole thing about people being interested in it gets old real quick. A fillip at the gas station takes longer because people, especially truckers have so many questions.
There is always that douchebag that fills his gasser on the one pump that has diesel so you have to wait until they get back to their vehicle.
Overall Im extremely happy with it and don't regret at all the decision to go diesel. Parts have been quite easy to come by once you figure out the cross compatible components with other Vehicles.
At highway speeds going 70-75 mph mine will do between 19-20 mpg. Where this thing truly shines is offroad. I can basically idle over just about anything with minimum throttle input whereas gassers need a bit more. I get max torque at really low rpm. The other place where the diesel does better is towing. It has a higher capacity for it.
The whole thing about people being interested in it gets old real quick. A fillip at the gas station takes longer because people, especially truckers have so many questions.
There is always that douchebag that fills his gasser on the one pump that has diesel so you have to wait until they get back to their vehicle.
Overall Im extremely happy with it and don't regret at all the decision to go diesel. Parts have been quite easy to come by once you figure out the cross compatible components with other Vehicles.
SteelHunterFJ80
SILVER Star
So are you saying that a toyota motor from 25 years ago has the same effeciency as a new model? I don't buy that at all.
Also take another brick of a truck as an example: 2006 dodge diesel vs gas. Diesel had a much higher mpg than gas. Same truck different motor
25% premium for diesel? Yikes. I guess it depends what region of the world you live in. Here in BC diesel has been cheaper than gas over the last 5 years. Usually $0.05 to $0.18 per liter cheaper. I've never seen a gas variant in anything get better fuel economy than it's diesel counterpart......if comparing apples to apples.
There will always be the SHTF crowd that will always want a diesel because you can run it on hemp, veggie, or any other oil.....like crankcase oil salvaged from all the other abandoned cars during the zombie apocalypse. Then there are the die hard folks who want fully Mechanical diesel because electronics suck, bug out, EMP, etc.
25% premium for diesel would kill any Hope's I had to sticking a diesel in my 80.
There will always be the SHTF crowd that will always want a diesel because you can run it on hemp, veggie, or any other oil.....like crankcase oil salvaged from all the other abandoned cars during the zombie apocalypse. Then there are the die hard folks who want fully Mechanical diesel because electronics suck, bug out, EMP, etc.
25% premium for diesel would kill any Hope's I had to sticking a diesel in my 80.
Diesel gets higher mpg because it has more energy per gallon than gasoline. When it was half the price of gasoline it was a no-brainer to go diesel. Now with ULSD that has less energy per gallon and the higher cost of replacement parts (largely due to more stringent emissions requirements) the benefits of diesel make sense for narrower subset of people. Additionally manufacturers have improved the longevity of gas motors to the point that people are pissed if it doesn't go 200k miles. My Cruiser will hit 300K in a few years...
My 2012 Ram3500 Cummins never got better than 15.5mpg empty. The gas versions are less, but they have been closing the gap.
Only 2-3 MPG difference. Might be a wash as far as cost per mile goes. For a non-commercial (weekend warrior) application I would choose a gasser at this point in time.
As far as a 25 year old Toyota vs. a new model; while the new motors and transmissions are more efficient those gains have largely been offset by increased weight due to the additional safety equipment/requirements. I had a Toyota car 30 years ago and I can tell you it had a spartan interior, only seat belts, and was light as hell compared to today's vehicles. I never documented the fuel economy, but it was around 30mpg. I'd much rather crash in a modern version!!
SteelHunterFJ80
SILVER Star
All understood and well taken. But there are a couple points that you raise that don't really have any bearing on the main point of the conversation: what are the pros and cons with a Land Cruiser 80 series with gas or diesel engines.
For instance your truck that you that you used as an example. They are not the same weight or type of engine that an 80 series would use. But even so it still proves my point on fuel efficiency. By the charts you posted I see an average of 4 mpg better. Thats 23% more fuel efficient with some trucks seeing 30% more fuel efficiency! And thats with a truck even bigger than an 80!
And your statement about your Toyota car 30 years ago with 30 mpg also proves my point about todays gas engines being more fuel effcient; despite today's cars weighing much more they get the same mpg (example 2016 Toyota Camry 25 city mpg and 35 hwy mpg despite weighing a third more than a 1990 Camry). The only way that works is if the motors are more efficient.
But back to the original point of the thread. Diesel engines that go into cruisers typically don't have complicated emissions parts (1hd-t 1hd-ft 4bt 6bt etc) and they are less costly to maintain vs their gas counterparts and are less complicated.
I certainly don't mean to come off sounding like a jerk or a know it all or trying to argue but I just didn't see some of you points as applicable to this particular thread discussion of diesel vs gas motors in a 80 series. They are always exceptions to the rule.
In an absolutely perfect world I'd have a 1HD-FT with a PDI intercooler, Extreme Grunter Turbo, and 3 inch exhaust. 23 mpg with all the hp and torque I could ever want, along with a H151 5 speed of course
to limit drive train power loss.
Wait. Why is this an arguement? Get whatever makes you happy. If you want a Gas get a gas if you want diesel get a diesel. If you don't like diesel and think people who get then are being dumb that sucks but it isn't your truck.
You have a point. That really is why I have mine. I absolutely enjoy getting in my HDJ80 manual and going to work every day. I am working on things to get better mileage, but that is not the reason I got it. If I can do better, then great. But I will still drive it every day and enjoy it. And as far as my (first) air filter change goes since I bought it two months ago, I increased my mileage to over 18mpg around town with some idling. My next tank looks to be getting even better. Just starting research on some Warn hubs and I have a lot of PM engine work to do so maybe I can do even better. To me it is not a choice, it is just fun.
