Diesel engine swap chit chat (1 Viewer)

[stumpy]

So I am making plans for my project 40 and I have decided to go diesel rather than use the 2FE I built and I am having difficulty deciding what motor to choose.

Current thinking is Isuzu 4BDT1/2, Merc OM617 5 cyl, or 1HZ. I have considered other diesels from the above as well, and am still open to ideas though I think the 4BT has rattled itself out of the picture.

I have an H55F to put behind whatever I choose and have the ability and means to make a bellhousing adapter.

Pros and cons -

Merc - cheap donors and lots of them. Rebuilds are pricey, but i hear you can treat the engines as disposable - engine dies, go find another with lower miles. Motors are short, compact and relatively light.

Isuzu - more expense in getting motor/donor vehicle. Rebuild kits are easier to get and cheaper to do. Heavy, tall, but short lengthwise.

Toyota - well, it would be a Toyota, which I would love to do regardless. But, it seems just getting one costs more than the Merc and Isuzu motors and rebuilds combined. Doing a swap would best be done with a half cut.

I am planning on putting a 40 body on an 80 frame, so the Toyota option is appealing as a semi-drop in. But I am concerned about costs...

I'd like to get 180 - 200 hp and 250+ ft-lbs without blowing up the motor, and I'd like to be in the 20-22 mpg range if I can. Bigger turbos are fine, I just want to make sure I won't push too far and need an early rebuild.

So, any thoughts? I have read myself cross eyed on numerous thread on all three candidates. I can see solid reasons to go with all three candidates. I'd hate to leave this to the $$ to decide ...

 

[diesel60]

Is say to go with the Mercedes,but I'm biased towards them anyways;/ how much to rebuild the others? It's roughly $1400 for all the parts to rebuild the merc engines and that's not bad for a diesel.
Brian

 

[roscoFJ73]

The 1HZ is a very smooth customer,it will purr all day long with just oil and filter changes.
I dont think the half cut is all that important with a 1HZ. It has everything you need already bolted to the engine and your 2F radiator has the in/outlets in the right position.
Aftermarket filter pods are cheap and just as good as toyotas

If cost is the main hold up,wait until you have more cash,I think you will utlimately be happier with the 1HZ and it will push the 40 along nicely without a turbo.

 

[stumpy]

diesel60 - in browsing around the merc forums, i see reference to $3k+ for full rebuild kits, which sounds simply outrageous. where are you getting yours for $1400? that's FAR more reasonable, and on par with a 2F kit! i see why you are biased, do you have any plans for an adapter to an H55F? i saw you were planning on a switch to the OM603, i have seen much reference to head/head gasket problems. have you run that motor yet?

rosco- the reason i was thinking a half cut was that most of the motors i have seen are selling with no accessories. i assume you must be referring to fuel pump and PS pump, no? the other issue i have found with the HZ is the difficulty in getting a rebuild kit into the states. i know the HZs have been ubiquitous around the world and are probably silly easy to get parts outside the US... any word on what a rebuild kit costs in your neck of the woods?

 

[rchalmers3]

stumpy,

While I agree the 1HZ is wonderful, and a good fit for your project, it does not meet your objective of being an affordable diesel.

What about the 6.5L TB GM motor? It fits nicely onto the 80 series frame, has readily available adapters and is one of the most affordable diesels there are in the US.

Rick

 

[roscoFJ73]

rosco- the reason i was thinking a half cut was that most of the motors i have seen are selling with no accessories. i assume you must be referring to fuel pump and PS pump, no? the other issue i have found with the HZ is the difficulty in getting a rebuild kit into the states. i know the HZs have been ubiquitous around the world and are probably silly easy to get parts outside the US... any word on what a rebuild kit costs in your neck of the woods?

I was thinking of a used engine from one of the canadian importers with all the bits attached,probably be a 24volt though.
The going price for the 1HZ rebuild kits is usually $1000-$1400.
Engines Australia's kit is fairly close to what Toyota use but they source them direct from the Japanese manufacturers which saves $$$.
They also have a turbo 1HZ kit which has heavier pistons to cope with the heat for a bit of extra $$$
The problem Ive heard with Engines Australia is that they dont do overseas orders.
However Roodogs do business with them and Im guessing they would order a turbo kit if you wanted one.
Their standard engine kits come from Engines Australia.

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_...ebuild&_kw=kit&_dmpt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories

 

[diesel60]

diesel60 - in browsing around the merc forums, i see reference to $3k+ for full rebuild kits, which sounds simply outrageous. where are you getting yours for $1400? that's FAR more reasonable, and on par with a 2F kit! i see why you are biased, do you have any plans for an adapter to an H55F? i saw you were planning on a switch to the OM603, i have seen much reference to head/head gasket problems. have you run that motor yet?

Peach parts is the place to go for merc parts,was a year and a half ago when I last priced the rebuild and not a specific kit,varys with what needs to be replaced. $1400/$1500 for just about everything if I remember correctly?? Was just talking with a customer tonite from Canada and was talkin about picking up an h55 and split case. If and when that works out then I will make an adapter,otherwise you would need to supply me with one. The 603 can be a great engine if you have the right head casting. The early 3.0 engines had the head that cracks and the later 3.5 engines had better heads but bent rods and ovaled cylinders. Combine the two engines and it will be near bullet proof. Most 3.0s have had the head replaced with the newer casting,can't remember the #s off the top of my head but think #14 #16 are the bad ones. My 603 has over 300k on it and has the bad casting,runs freakin perfect and has zero blowby.I drove the car for a month before I yanked the engine and I'm not worried if it craps out as I have a 606 planed for it. I have the 602/603 to Toyota clutch/flywheel finished and will be starting the bellhousings for the w56 and r150 in about two weeks. I'm running an r150 in my 62,so I spose you could go that route instead of a h55.
Brian

 

[stumpy]

rick- i havent looked into any of the GM motors with any intent. i started with the 6.2 and saw nothing but misery, so i ended my search there. 6.2/6.5 sound both comically large for my application, but i will look into the 6.5 as i never did. i considered the duramax 6.7, but getting one of those appears to be comically out of my budget, and it looked simply too large to fit into a 40 series engine bay.

rosco- interesting about the aussie kits. i have a friend in perth who could probably buy and ship one to me if i decide to go the HZ route. that pricing is far more reasonable than i was expecting. i was concerned about boosting a 1HZ as i have heard some scary piston burning stories, so it is good to see they have a heavier option. i was also casually looking into a custom piston maker to see if an HZ could handle something with a thicker head. that seems like a good option, but if someone has already solved that problem, no sense in re-solving it. i wonder if anyone has looked into an aftermarket piston oiling setup... i have seen reference to aftermarket oiling on ford diesels, i wonder if it would be worth considering for an HZ. i have seen reference to keeping boost under 10 psi and having no problems with piston burning or longevity, so perhaps with the heavier pistons, 20 psi is still fine and probably more than i need anyhow.

diesel60 - i have heard peach is the place to go. i have heard others refer to peach before, so its good to see it again here. interesting about the hybrid motors. thats what i did on the 2FE. not sure i want to go to the trouble of getting two motors to do that again though. those are mid-80s to mid-90s motors, yes? wasnt the transition in 89 or so? i guess if that vintage car is as cheap as the 617, that might be a good option. i dont see much on the 606, is that covered in electronics? not a deal breaker, but certainly not as easy as an isuzu 4BDT1/2.

speaking of which.... i am a little surprised not to see astr or dougal posting up on the isuzus!

 

[Toyodieselfan]

I bought a 1hz w/bell housing and h55 trans with about 100,ooo miles on it for 6,500 on mud and put it in a fj40 I've had it for a week now. It's surprisingly fast, quite and no exhaust smoke or stink that some diesels have. No need to turbo IMO. I love it! I had Proffitts put it all together and they did an awesome job

 

[stumpy]

yeah, i saw the motor you bought. apparently i was just a little too late...

 

[BryGgi]

why you iven think OM617 in your car. Itl old school engine. Im swappping on my toyota LJ70 an OM605 20valve engine. parts are available better than 617 and more easily you can get real power in this engine. My diesel pump is tuned for 300hp, and i dont wai any less in this car.

 

[bsmith123]

any luck

having any luck findin a motor for your 40 Stumpy?

 

[roscoFJ73]

I bought a 1hz w/bell housing and h55 trans with about 100,ooo miles on it for 6,500 on mud and put it in a fj40 I've had it for a week now. It's surprisingly fast, quite and no exhaust smoke or stink that some diesels have. No need to turbo IMO. I love it! I had Proffitts put it all together and they did an awesome job

Good news.Thats not such a bad price considering you could potentially get another 300000 miles out of the engine.
Wait until you go offroad,you will really appreciate the fuel economy.
The 1HZ is probably the best non turbo diesel ever made.

 

[stumpy]

i havent looked all that much for a motor as i havent decided what i should commit to. my heart still cries for a 1HZ... the Merc and Isuzu options appear to just be cheaper, easier ways to get into a diesel. i'd love to put something better than the OM617 or the 4HDT1/2, but cost for donor engines is so much higher for anything more modern, i'd rather skip it and go 1HZ.

I guess if i can find an engine that is/was running, doing a 1HZ is probably more doable. or, if i could find a really cheap block that i can rebuild... the 1HZ really is a great motor, i just dont want to have to go to cruiserparts and spend $7500 + shipping!

 

[xtremitys]

If ur going the 80series chassis, just get one with a 1hz already in it ? Save alot of
Hassle , custom forged pustons frim arias , ross , etc are $2000+ a set for a diesel as they are one offs . Cummins are too heavy & tall for toyotas , 6.2/6.5gm are a waste of time, they cheap for a reason , nothn against people who like em,use them , buts its old technology like a 2 stroke diesel .

Id keep it toyota , resale value alot higher
, toyota has alot engines to choose from , less hassles with registration , certification , parts ,

 

[OGBeno]

just dont want to have to go to cruiserparts and spend $7500 + shipping!

Wow. A new OEM 1HZ short block and a bare head are available for way less than that if you wanted to build one.

 

[crushers]

okay Beno, interested in pricing...
i know ENS was charging $10K+ for a rebuilt 1HZ complete (using all original toyota parts) ...

 

[roscoFJ73]

Wow. A new OEM 1HZ short block and a bare head are available for way less than that if you wanted to build one.

The bits and pieces on the outside would kill the budget unless you have a donor engine.

 

[roscoFJ73]

okay Beno, interested in pricing...
i know ENS was charging $10K+ for a rebuilt 1HZ complete (using all original toyota parts) ...

The engine kit is only about $1200 here and its the same as what Toyota use. What do you get for the other $8800?

 

[crushers]

Rosco,
not a kit, all toyota original parts ... as usual, huge money.

agree, the external parts would be a killer but then, if the price is right, you buy a brand new block and head, get a ex-mine engine, rebuild the pump and injectors and bingo ... a 500K motor ready to install.