Dec 14th 2013 USFS meeting.

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There is going to be another meeting this year between us users and the FS.


So please post up here if you have issues with what the FS is doing so I can take it higher and we can get it out of the other threads.

If you want to see something done up there then post here.

Just post here prior to Dec 14th please. Here is your chance to be heard. I am not too shy to tell them . Post up.
 
Also. Why do more people not make it to the work days ? Is it the dates ? We can do our own but no one has ever asked to do one on a different date. Is it too far ? I have been busting my ass this year to get people to step up and come out but it has not worked. So what would it take to get you to come out.

If you do not want to say on here then hit me offline.

Right now we are fighting a loosing battle out there we can not win without more help. If you were out there last weekend you seen it. Too many bypasses being started.
 
Well since you asked. lol. I've gone to one workday. It's been a year or two but a while just the same. I was down there about 6-7 hours and it honestly felt like only 2 hours of work were done and the rest was spend standing around waiting and general grab-assery.

As most of you know I have a soon to be 6 year old and 3 year old twins. I am lucky if we get home by 630-7 at night. So I don't get nearly as much time with them as I would like. Not complaining, it's just the way it is. So it's hard for me to pull away by myself for the full day and not feel like I am accomplishing anything. I don't mind going but I want to be productive. I've also found it hard to really know what the plan of attack is going to be. If I knew there would not be any heavy equipment around I could bring my oldest and lighten the burden on the wife.

I know you don't always know exactly what is going to be done so I certainly don't blame you. These things require a lot of flexibility which I just can't do right now. Quite frankly for all the above reasons I don't even look at the workday threads anymore. Anytime I go to URE I always get a season pass even though I never get my moneys worth and I always bring out bags of trash. I figure helping in small ways is better than nothing at all. As always it's just my $0.02
 
What offroad community outreach campaigns does the Forest Service currently have?

We are working on killing these illegal bypasses, but what is the USFS doing to tell people that making bypasses is a bad thing? Are there plenty of trail signs? Are there advertising boards that say "stay on the fxxxing trail"?

Some people go out there and have no concept of Tread Lightly. Darin, I know you go out there and spread the good word as often as you can, which is well and good, but you shouldn't be the only one fighting this fight.
 
Thank you for the replies both on here and offline. I want the truth as to this. I want to see if we can do anything to fix the issues I have been told. The old saying fits here. If I do not know I can not fix.

A lot has been said about sitting around. And yes we were really bad about that for the years past. I really wish a few of you showed up for this last one we just had. We had 4 different teams going in 4 different directions. We are trying to get our stuff together. I say us as in me and Snappy over on NC4x4 but we both can only do so much. We are trying to make it way more productive but when we only get a few to show up out there between all clubs then we can only do so much. During the summer we only do light stuff and Wheeling. That is what they want us to do but I think we are going to get that to change at this meeting. We can have a few people there so if someone wants to come down please do. You will see what we are up against.
 
Mostly it's a schedule thing for me. I started the spring coming out about once a month and on off days picking up trash during my wheeling runs with Burt. This summer till now I've been busy with other things when the workdays were scheduled. As soon as I get some more of my stuff sold for the move and Burt repaired enough I'll make it back out before I head west. And thank you Darin for puuting so much effort to the cause. I also agree with Eric that the FS workdays are an amazing waste of manpower. I'd rather be at the ones we can schedule as a club.
Seeing as how some of us can get to URE occasionally but not necessarily on a workday, can we set up a system to document work done on our trail (or others)? Like a location where trash from inside the park can be registered so there is some proof that volunteer effort is being exerted.
As far as suggesting some things at the meeting I'd have to mainly keep my mouth shut as not to upset the cause. But I truly do believe a child could do a better job managing expenditures on our state run land. Just this year I've seen an incredible waste of money spent on silly things and I know the enviro-side is going to one day use the money argument in their favor. I couldn't keep my mouth entirely shut.
 
Mike. If anyone goes out there and does anything to help out the FS then please either stop off at Janet's place in Arrowhead Campground or just let me know the following. Name, hours worked, stuff done, and trails it was done on, and date it was done. Please do this . Anyone out there can.
 
I started off this year with the intention of coming to at least 3 workdays this year. I havent made 1.

To be honest, I didnt read work threads because it only made me feel worse. Its a good days drive to hit workdays and I dont get many weekends off..In my defense, this was also why I missed non work day events too.

Id ask you, for someone like me who wants to participate but cant make it - do you have suggestions on how I could still contribute?

And lastly, this is probably stupid but where do I find out how to get trail "intersections" more permanently marked?

The huz suggested markings like on ski resort..like which way the flow goes, difficulty of trail-(I would think this would lessen the need for drive around trails too?)

Huz said he would seriously be willing to help do this, in mapping out permanent markers and fabricating them, placing them..tell me what you think!
 
We put signs up just about every year, but they just keep stealing them. We just put up more on our trail just this last Saturday. I am waiting to see if they are still there the next time i go out there. Bet they are not. The only thing that does not seem to get stolen up there are the little diamonds that have markings on them as to the trail you are on.
 
We were thinking something more like this-


images.webp

images.webp
 
At Rasuch Creek ( I know it's private) they use colored tabs for the trails. On the trails on trees they have colored tabs. No one wants to steal a pink diamond. Well maybe Johnny would. Haha just some info to pass on.

Meatball
 
Logan's run is the 1st time i have been to ure. Signage def is an issue but other than that unless you can set up some type of patrol with authority there is not much you can do. I must say i was rather impressed with what you have. You definitely don't want to lose it.
 
I usually try to make 3 a year at the least.

In the past that was all I could make because I worked 60 hours a week sometimes 70-80 and my weekend usually consisted of either getting sunday off or getting half of sunday off.

To make it to any work day or any cruiser event I had to request time off, which having my direct boss 1000 miles away was never a quick way to do it.

I know many in this club work long hours plus long commutes and many also have kids so I would almost never expect to see them at work days because time with family and your kids will always come first and should.


Now I have the opposite problem..... lots of time but have to juggle my resources as I don't make near what I used to. I still run into scheduling conflicts as many of the side jobs I do are on a saturday but its easy to just not take the job if I want to go to a work day.
The double edge to that sword is the sheer cost of the gas for me to drive to Uwharrie at around $70 out of pocket to go work.

That said I still go to uwharrie more to work than to actually wheel these days.


I'll echo what others say when they talk about not quite knowing what we are doing and the lack of direction by the UFS.

I will however say that since Darin quit the Post service and has saturdays free there is much more good info coming our way than bad info.

I remember a work day Andrea and I went to that was in July and was only supposed to be a easy day due to the heat. I think trash pick up and putting about 20 feet of guard rail on our trail was the word we got.

Brian, Clint and Eric J showed up also and Eric brought his son most likely because it was supposed to be an easy day.

Well between Eric and I in our toyota truck we hauled no less than 8 bed fulls of rock that we had to load and unload by hand up the back side of RML in 90+ degrees.... not really what I brought Andrea out for. When the UFS guy finally showed up with the bob cat (3 hours late) he loaded one truck bed of rock for us and then disappeared again so we had to do the last 4 by hand again in the heat. Then when we thought we were done we were told that there was a large tree down at the top and we had to chop it up with a chain saw...... large was an understatement. I think I was there for about 10 hours that day and not too happy about it but we got it done.

Since you've been involved Darin its been a lot better but still there is lots of confusion on the UFS as to what to do .

The 2 work days i've been to this year kinda showed that.

In January the UFS was 2 hours late and we all stood around in a ice covered parking lot waiting on them.

The big March one was from what I had gleamed from the posts supposed to be about us making a camp site at the beginning of our trail but it was another trail to do..... instead we drained some water holes and then stood around while a UFS guy chopped some trees and then waited to take some posts down with the 40 other people there. Lots of standing around in between though.

Then Brian, Brett and I were told to go back to Hunt camp to help you load some boulders. I'm sure you remember those as you had trouble moving them with your John Deere so there was nothing we could really do but stand around and watch..... again.

I think it's little things like that that just take chip away at the willingness of some people.

That said I have been to some very good work days though and those are mostly the ones where we do what we need to do on our trails and then call it good and are left to our own devices. :cheers:

Not trying to knock the UFS so much as I know most of the confusion comes from above and they are stretched to the limit man power wise. Just my observations.


I'll try to make at least one more before I go but I can't promise anything right now. :)
 
The bikes are an issue more often than not when I'm there. The quads can be, but I find a larger portion of their riders are willing to move to the side and wave me through or sit in line with everybody else while waiting on an obstacle, trail repair, etc. It seems the larger the group of riders the more likely they'll start cutting bypasses or bumping off your truck - do they actually race each other around the trails? That needs to stop if so unless they can get a designated date/time/trail to do it on. I've met some really nice guys riding bikes and quads (some of whom have taught me ways I could improve my trial etiquette), so I'm definitely not on a tirade against them all, but it seems that so many of them consider us to be in the way and consider themselves to have top priority.

Another thing I thought of recently - bike riders have to eat and drink, too. They carry their stuff in their pockets or packs but how much trail trash do we think is generated because they don't pack it out? I've never seen one of them drinking beer but I have talked to some that had definitely been drinking. I doubt they want to carry out their empties. I can say that I've never seen a rider stop to pick up trash. I'm sure it's a convenience thing for them.

Does anyone know if any bike clubs are active in work days or do their own cleanup days? Are there even any significant sized bike clubs or are most riders just on their own? How much time and resources are devoted to installing railing to keep bikes on the trails vs keeping the actual trails in shape?

--john
 
As someone who tries to cover the trails in most every type of vehicle I will say this much for bikes. I know I pack in drinks with me and Also pack out my drinks. Most all I have ever road with / chatted with are like that. Most of the bike riders I have seen out there do not bring stuff on the trails but I could miss plenty that do. I will not lie. I like to haul out there. I have my cruiser for going slow and the bike to fly. Most of the time that is during the week though. Not too sure who all has ridden bike on the trails but slow sucks out there. Not to say I do not go slow when needed. As I do. I have never heard of a group from the bike riders just like I have tried to find ATV clubs also to help. I have talked to a bunch about our work days . It just goes in one and out the other. I have never considered / thought of bike riders tearing stuff up, but am more than willing to bring it up there. Again it will just be going no where unless we can find a way of getting them involved as none are going to this meeting besides me.
 
I really don't think that the bikers leave a lot of trash behind - just thought I'd throw it out there for comments.

I completely understand the speed aspect - that's part of the draw to two-wheelers. My thought is that speed is great until you can't go fast for some reason. At that point, wait in line like anybody else would have to. I know I've waited patiently while people pushed their bikes up muddy hills or came back down to go elsewhere. I especially hate when bikes are coming at you at full throttle and can't be bothered to show some respect for what you're trying to accomplish on public trails by slowing down while they're around you. Almost makes me want to run wide open down hills that they're trying to climb while shouting "Get out of the way". I've been hit or scraped many times by riders who wouldn't slow down. Their buddies that did slow down have always found as much room around me as I could possibly leave on the easiest side for them to pass.

Maybe I'm the only one who hears their engines and wonders where they are, where they're heading and tries to leave room. Maybe they're just pissed off and grumpy because nobody else does that.

--john
 
My father will be in town that weekend. Maybe I can convince him to come out to the woods with me :hhmm:
 
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