Cutting Cost's instead of "thoughts on raising dues" (1 Viewer)

[woooody]

Also -- Casey can best address the individual line items in the budget. I'm speaking in generalities, as I don't want to disect the budget here.

I think Mark Algazy summed things up well... The majority of members are looking to the Trails subscription as their reason for membership. Let's not reduce the value of Trails, and lose more members.

 

[TUFFTORQ]

Not to be picky, but it's actually only $25, due to the fees from Pay Pal. With those members comes the need for 400 addtional magazines, at $2 per issue -- so the net loss isn't $10K


Advertising income is roughly $50K -- It's in the P&L under revenue/income - Advertising

I referenced the pricing mentioned on the TLCA website under membership. It reads $27 for USA membership. Those 400 members were lost, so the revenue is gone, right.

What does it cost to publish Toyota Trails after advertising income?

Again, cutting costs may be a solution before raising dues. It's a gamble eitherway my friend. Some will stay and accept it and others will move on...

 

[woooody]

I referenced the pricing mentioned on the TLCA website under membership. It reads $27 for USA membership. Those 400 members were lost, so the revenue is gone, right.

What does it cost to publish Toyota Trails after advertising income?

the TLCA website says $27 -- If you send a check, it's $25. You do acknowledge that it costs money to process payments via a credit card, right?

Yes, the revenue is gone. But there are costs associated with having members. one is the cost of trails, a 2nd is the cost of mailing trails. So if we add a member, we need a magazine for them, which means we need to print a copy of trails, and we need to them.

If you take the $100K for publishing Trails, subtract the advertising revenue of $50k, that leaves a net cost to the association of $50K. These are rounded numbers.

Last year, the cost of trails was $86K, and revenue was $45K. Part of the cost was postage, nearly $20K. So, what is the cost of Trails? $41K or $21K?

 

[TUFFTORQ]

Last year, the cost of trails was $86K, and revenue was $45K. Part of the cost was postage, nearly $20K. So, what is the cost of Trails? $41K or $21K?

Sorry, I noticed the 88K spent in 2005, not the $86K and also noticed the budget of $106K for 2006. I did see postage for $20K, printing for $40K, and publishing for $40K.

I say fawk it! Jack the rates up and see what happens. Good luck!

 

[woooody]

Sorry -- you're right - 88k. Budget was 86K... I was off one column

Yes, budget for 2006 is 106K.

I just revisted the comparison spreadsheet that Casey sent out earlier. Through the end of may
Membership revenue is down $400. But first class membership is up $1400. Troubling is that our associate membership is down $2200. Maybe our focus should go there?

We've also given $5000 so far to BRC (through May 2006) where last year we had given $0 (through May 2005).

 

[TUFFTORQ]

Sorry -- you're right - 88k. Budget was 86K... I was off one column

Yes, budget for 2006 is 106K.

I just revisted the comparison spreadsheet that Casey sent out earlier. Through the end of may
Membership revenue is down $400. But first class membership is up $1400. Troubling is that our associate membership is down $2200. Maybe our focus should go there?

We've also given $5000 so far to BRC (through May 2006) where last year we had given $0 (through May 2005).

Ross,

With all of the new FJ's being sold and pick up's driving around, WE can increase general membership with the help of individuals, chapters and the associate members. One question would be is there enough funding to support a membership drive campaign.

I'm not saying that we should be selling cookies, candy bars or having flaco's car wash on the local corner to generate funds for TLCA. If we look at non-profit volunteer fire departments in rural areas, most of them hold an annual chili or dutch oven cookoff or pancake breakfast to generate supplemental funding to support their needs. I think that northern and southern california could have one helluva time. Cruiser family oriented meet-n-greet, cold beer, grub, and good friends. Perhaps Lone Pine or Bishop? Maybe gather some associate members to contribute to offset some costs.

Just an idea...

I whole heartly agree that we should be working with and encouraging our associate members to join. I have to believe a win-win scenario for both the vendor and TLCA as a partnership, where both the vendor and TLCA membership would be benefit by working together. Vendor and chapter sponsored events for non-wheeling and wheeling events would create revenue and drive the organization. I understand that we have alot of the big dog vendors that advertise. What about the small dudes on the block just starting out? I see that as an opportunity to help them while they help the organization.

It's my understanding that the $5K you mentioned to BRC is being installed in payments. Which is a good thing compared to last years contribution. By the way, I can't find what TLCA donated to FOTR after the Rubithon. Does anyone know?

Mark

 

[NorCal Cruiser]

Here's my $0.02-

I've never attended a TLCA event, I would like to some day, but I just don't have the time. The main reason I joined TLCA is for the Toyota Trails mag which I always enjoy reading. I just renewed my membership for next year and I think it's well worth the $27. I'd be willing to pay more if I had to as long as I knew that the money was being used to help protect and our sport. Blue Ribbon Coalition is fighting to keep public lands open for our use. They need all the help and support we can give them! With the new Forest Service rule that went into effect this summer we stand to lose thousands and thousands of miles of routes (if you'd like more info about this let me know). We need Blue Ribbon and other groups like them (ORBA, CORVA, ARRA, Cal4WD, etc.) to fight the enviros for us.

 

[woooody]

Mark -- Rubithon did. Tony Twiddy is the chair. Not sure if it was recorded as a TLCA donation or a Rubithon donation, but the two are the same. Just comes out of different pots. Since TLCA sponsors (vs santions) Rubthon, most all of the proceeds go back to TLCA. 85% vs 15% from a sanctioned event. But Tony made the contribution to FOTR and/or Del Albright to support thier cause, as it is so closely associated with Rubithon.

 

[woooody]

Here's my $0.02-

I've never attended a TLCA event, I would like to some day, but I just don't have the time. The main reason I joined TLCA is for the Toyota Trails mag which I always enjoy reading. I just renewed my membership for next year and I think it's well worth the $27. I'd be willing to pay more if I had to as long as I knew that the money was being used to help protect and our sport. Blue Ribbon Coalition is fighting to keep public lands open for our use. They need all the help and support we can give them! With the new Forest Service rule that went into effect this summer we stand to lose thousands and thousands of miles of routes (if you'd like more info about this let me know). We need Blue Ribbon and other groups like them (ORBA, CORVA, ARRA, Cal4WD, etc.) to fight the enviros for us.

Thanks for renewing! Was it your wife (Natalie?) that called earlier today?

If you missed an issue, hit me off list, and I'll make it right.

 

[wardfoto]

ok. here's my thoughts...flame away.
anybody willing to concede the fact we are a car club? (the best, by the way)
if so then it follows that as such, we seem to be exceptionally focused on the business aspect i.e. we should be running this more like a business.
my view is quite different. i think we should be running it as a car club. no reason we can't run it as a succesful car club, but it should always be a car club. i'm pretty sure that if you cut the pay to admin, you are gonna find a vast decrease in membership. why? you ask?
simple. admin busts hump to ensure that members are taken care of, and in a timely fashion.
consider for a moment the amount of her time it takes to keep each membership packet mailing to a new member down to just a few days. you wanna do it? i don't
in addition to taking care of new members, she also has to deal with rest of us renewing, and calling, and saying great job, or complaining. and she likes doing it, on top of all that. i doubt we could do better, even if we paid more, so i say, be grateful we have the funds to pay someone to do it, and be extra grateful we've got who we've got.
now, let's also consider the events. able to be brought to you by your local club, with T.L.C.A. backing. let's cut costs here. for example let's get event insurance without the backing of this great car club. oops, there goes your event, due to the prohibitive cost of insurance at such a small level. don't believe me? ask around. you'll find that it's true.
now on to trails. if that is not value added benefit, then what would be? we get access to great vendors, who willingly advertise with us, even though we are a very small, very specific target audience. in addition, we get access to mark whatley, whom i've had the pleasure of meeting in person. great guy, and a guy who's wisdom i've used, and needed, on more than one occasion.
i also thoroughly enjoy getting to hang out with all the cruiserheads every time a trails issue shows up at my doorstep. and i constantly go back and read old trails issues, yes, even the yellow stapled together ones. how many more people have this as the only window to events and friends that they've never seen, and may never see? there are plenty. last value added benefit of trails? well, the discounts, of course. you got all the vendors that discount for members memorized? i don't, and don't want to. thus, my uv resistant, color trails saves the day. i flip to the vendors section, and voila, a pretty thorough list of the people that will gladly hook me up. sweet!!!
and we can not afford to cut spending to the land use groups. not just for ourselves, but for anybody that enjoys a trail on a wheeled vehicle. we are losing. period. no questions, no debate. we are getting soundly thrashed by the greenies, and our lovely environment of political correctness. if anything, we should donate more, by having chapters do fund raisers, car washes, cookie sales, whatever it takes. pretty soon, we will have no place left to wheel, or recreate, where we don't have to pay to get in. cutting costs is not the answer.
cutting costs where reasonable could be a viable solution,but there is really almost nowhere to cut. we will lose far more by cutting costs, than by increasing dues.
if the belief is that cutting costs is always the first, and maybe best, solution, ask around. look for people who were "costs" that were cut. look at the economy. and see how long it has taken our nation to rebound. we are just a car club. it would most likely kill us.
i've been a T. L.. C . A. member for a long time. i've been a member of my local chapter since the three guys who started it got together the third time. there were five or six of us there, and now we've become the largest chapter in the organization. that makes me proud. T.L.C.A. also makes me proud.
so, i'll end with this. the value of this club is quite high. we get a lot for the little that we pay. i don't make much money, generally live paycheck to paycheck. here's the deal. even if dues were to be raised to a hundred dollars, i'd still be in. find the money somehow, and stick to it. it's worth it, and i love being here. enough that come elections, i will be stepping up to volunteer for a position. whether i get it or not remains to be seen, but if i do, i plan to do everything i can to help people come to enjoy and love this club as much as i do.

-justin

 

[NorCal Cruiser]

Thanks for renewing! Was it your wife (Natalie?) that called earlier today?

If you missed an issue, hit me off list, and I'll make it right.

I didn't call, must have been someone else.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Well said Justin! I'll vote for you!

 

[TUFFTORQ]

cutting costs where reasonable could be a viable solution,but there is really almost nowhere to cut.

Have you had a chance to review the P&L and budget figures? If so, what do you think raising the dues will accomplish vs. making some well-deserved cuts?

 

[hatman406080]

If we have 3500-4000 members and only about 500-600 are attending events, then that leaves 2900-3500 that seem to be in it just for Toyota Trails.

Exactly my point. I guess what i'm saying is i don't think those 2900 to 3500 people "just in it for the Trails" won't want to spend much more for a magazine.
Now i love my Trails but those same 2900 to 3500 people were still members before the "sweet Trails" and i suspect they still will be if we cut it back alittle. Again i'm not sure cuting it back is the answer but i started this post to see how else we could cut costs and am still waiting to see what TLCA members think. The dues post has all kinds of good ideas on how to increase membership and revenue. Your flyer idea is great but my first thought is what will it cost?
If and when we are back in the black financially i think the new Trails rocks and would support it fully. Until then i still don't see the logic. Admitedly i still have not seen our finantials so my currant opinions are based mostly on what i've read here and on the BOD emails.
Again, i am eager to be convinced otherwise.

Neil

I am one of those 2,900 to 3,500 that never attended club events, but I'm in it for the Toyota Trails. I have been a member for almost 10 years. I don't mind to pay more for Toyota Trails. It is an excellent magazine or Land Cruiser owners like me.

HATMAN

'75 fj 40/'87 fj 60/'93 fcj 80

 

[wardfoto]

what well deserved cuts? you tell us. see, here's where i'm coming from on this, and maybe you missed it in the first post, so i'll reiterate.
people are asking for cuts in pay to the few people who actually get paid to do this job. even if i were to decide to step up, and by some miracle got the vote, i still won't be getting paid. who wants to tell the people who do the hardest work for this organization that "hey, you really aren't worth what we pay you, so we'll pay you less, ask you to do the same job, maybe more"
i think the people who are in place, and getting the pittance, are doing more than an amazing job. and personally i don't really want to see the daily machinations of this club go to the lowest bidder, or the lowest paid. lowest paid = first to really not give a flying...
general sherman, that started this thread, asked people to step up and give reasons to increase dues. i gave them. i'm not saying there may not be able to be some cuts made, but realistically, that is hardly the be all end all solution, no more than raising dues is a be all end all solution. perhaps the two can co-exist.
however, this leads to the idea that mr. president and mr. accountant haven't thought of this already. my guess is that yes, they have. he's an accountant for a living, if memory serves, so i suspect that was probably the first move.
now i keep watching these threads, and it seems to me that it is the same people who cry, "don't raise the dues, or i'll leave." somebody needs to go read what charles kim said in the raising dues thread, basically:more people, or quality people?
this is an amazing organization, full of amazing people. the only thing we all have in common is our love of cruisers.
i have seen clubs become business, and it usually precedes the demise. it takes the fun out of it.
after all these points, there is still one further, and that is: how much do you pay as a chapter member? ask any body from rising sun. they pay way more to be members of that club, and they still rely on T.L.C.A for backing for events. my club, dues are thirty dollars,
and i don't get trails, i don't get jen. i don't get merch, i don't get vendor listings.
i still pay the thirty dollars. i still love that club. cut where we can, which really won't help much, raise dues now that it is more than reasonable. stop the rate of attrition. show others why we love this club, and it'll grow itself.
in this age of instant gratification, we tend to forget that some people rely on nothing more than our admin, our president, our publisher, and trails to stay informed and up to date. value added reason enough.
i said it before, but to re affirm: i live paycheck to paycheck. i pay my mortgage, i feed and clothe my kid, i take my vacations, i ride my mountain bike, i go rock climbing, i go kayaking, and i go wheeling. i also pay dues to my club, which are more than i pay to T.L.C.A. , and i pay my dues to T.L.C.A.
i think we will find some cuts that can be made, but to keep the organization viable, vital, and alive, we will have to bite the bullet and pony up. if i can, then there aren't many who can't.
we get far more than twenty five dollars out of this club, and costs for EVERYTHING the club does for us have never stopped going up. why is that concept so hard for people to understand? it's time, and reasonably so.
step up, people, and support what you love, before we lose it. this is doable, even without having to hurt ourselves anywhere. checks and balances. if it's reasonable to make cuts, then it's even more so reasonable to increase dues. costs to run the club never stop going up. yet here in these threads it seems as if the voices are saying, how come we can't run the the club at 1996 prices? well, if you can do it, then tell your boss at work to pay you 1996 wages. sure you'll be able to make cuts, but you won't survive for long. you'll have to go get another job( raising dues) to even think of getting by.
any body willing to go tell the boss, " hey i've made some cost of living cuts at home, so, i'll only need 1996 wages."? i'll go with no. no body here is willing to do that. and rightly so. make the minimal cuts, raise the dues. if it's what you would do to survive, then it's what we need to do to survive.
if there are substantial cuts that can be made show us. tell us. perhaps we'll agree. but it comes down to this: no cuts in pay to those key people, no cuts to trails, or minimal at best, and no cuts that affect the ability of the club to network, and be as great as we are. we can't continue to live with these blinders on. cuts? show us where they can be reasonably made. i'm sure there are some. i'm no accountant, and i hate math. so show us. then we can hash that out and make suggestions. but we are still gonna have to raise dues. would you still work for a company that hadn't given you a raise in ten or more years?
that's what we have effectively done as members of this club.we've said" you keep giving us more and more, but we aren't giving any more to you". that's the way it is.it's a car club. should remain such. we can be financially succesful, and still be a car club and it's time for that.
-justin

 

[TUFFTORQ]

what well deserved cuts? you tell us. see, here's where i'm coming from on this, and maybe you missed it in the first post, so i'll reiterate.
people are asking for cuts in pay to the few people who actually get paid to do this job. even if i were to decide to step up, and by some miracle got the vote, i still won't be getting paid. who wants to tell the people who do the hardest work for this organization that "hey, you really aren't worth what we pay you, so we'll pay you less, ask you to do the same job, maybe more"

Whoa, slow down and let me reiterate what I believe you may have missed in my past posts. First, I do not think that cutting our administrators job should even be an option. Her job, although it is a secondary job, is crucial to the organization. As far as I know, I don't think that the BOD is even considering to eliminate or reduce her compensation, is it? Like you, I have also volunteered to step up and become part of the solution for marketing & sales; without pay. Second, I think that we are spending an enormous amount of money on Toyota Trails. In excess of $100K to publish, print, and mail for 3600 members. This is by far the largest expense to TLCA. Don't you think that's a little excessive? I agree that the low bid may not be the best decision. Has there been other bids considered recently? Unless all 3600 members are on this board, how do we really know what membership wants? Third, and I think you may have missed it, do agree to an increase if funds were being used for BRC, FOTR, or other land use groups or another worthy cause such as growing membership or adding events to drive the organization. I also pay $60 in dues to the club's that I'm affiliated, while living paycheck to paycheck and gathering goodies for the cruiser to attend events. I live within my financial means. If I can't afford steak and lobster, I settle and enjoy the steak. Again, I believe that an increase in dues and better allocation of funds maybe needed to satisfy every member. Similar to what others have said, I enjoy this organization and will remain a member eitherway. I just hope the fallout doesn't impact the overall organization.

Mark

 

[wardfoto]

fair enough. and all i got out of your original post was about the well deserved cuts.if i missed out, thanks for showing me where. my post was not intended to attack, but merely to represent my first post, perhaps with more clarity.
the trails situation(similar to the bonnie situation, but with less dead people) is a one off for the thirtieth anniversary, as i understand it. this suggests to me that it will be lower somewhat than currently. more info needed here.
i recommend we ask todd about this. he will certainly be able to explain better. still we have to consider that as trails has gotten better, we've not increased dues to compensate. do i think we should cut trails to compensate? no. can and should we raise dues to compensate? yes. it's not just trails. all expenses related to keeping the club what it is have gone up. trails just happens to be the most visible example.
the other tangible benefits will continue to grow, as we compensate for cost of living adjustments( or cost of car club adjustments ) if there is fall out, we may well suffer some. but the ones who stay will be the most dedicated guys, and therefore the most excited about, and able to convey that excitement to new members. we will recover without them, and we may well be stronger for it.
this doesn't mean i wish to see them go, but some folks can't see the forest for the trees. i want every cruiserhead to be a part of our little family, but we can't continue to believe that our paltry twenty five dollars is enough to sustain us. and we can not pander to the few who wish to blindly believe this line of reasoning. we are gonna have to raise dues, and we are gonna lose some members for the effort.
it'll sadden me, but perhaps it will be for the best. the core remaining will be stronger, more dedicated, more willing to be the guys that step up and do. and that's what we need. the dues, the fresh blood, the excitement. it'll help us grow, and recover from any losses.
to quickly address the cost of trails: 100k seems like alot to me, but that seems like alot to me regardless of where or why. somebody page todd to the white courtesy phone, and i'm sure he'll be able to paint the picture, so that we who do not publish this magazine can undertsand( that means small words, todd!! )
i'm stoked about you stepping up. wish more would, but then who would be general membership? and as far as the statement about all 3600 members being on bod, and how do we know what they really want? well, these threads are to help us understand the point of view, but in the end, the decision has to serve the club, and the general assembly as best as possible. will toes get trod upon? almost certainly, or at least the perception of, but we have to do what is best overall, not for a select few. we'll miss 'em, but we can survive without them.
and, of course, i believe the money should, and will, go to better things, as my first post pointed out about keeping trails open for all off road wheeled activity. the club is not asking for the dues raise specifically for trails, but again, trails is the most visible, and certainly the most costly. and worth it. i've met alot of cruiserheads through trails, and maybe someday i'll get to see them in person. it has always been, and will always be, worth it to me. and even more so if the money helps us to make bigger, better impacts in other ways.
and what this about steak? man, you rich people kill me!!

 

[TUFFTORQ]

if there is fall out, we may well suffer some. but the ones who stay will be the most dedicated guys, and therefore the most excited about, and able to convey that excitement to new members. we will recover without them, and we may well be stronger for it.

this doesn't mean i wish to see them go, but some folks can't see the forest for the trees. we are gonna have to raise dues, and we are gonna lose some members for the effort.
and, of course, i believe the money should, and will, go to better things, as my first post pointed out about keeping trails open for all off road wheeled activity. the club is not asking for the dues raise specifically for trails, but again, trails is the most visible, and certainly the most costly. and worth it. i've met alot of cruiserheads through trails, and maybe someday i'll get to see them in person. it has always been, and will always be, worth it to me. and even more so if the money helps us to make bigger, better impacts in other ways.

well said...and props to you for stepping up!

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

I'd just like to point out that $100k divided by (3600 members times 6 issues a year) is less than $5 per magazine to get it published and mailed out. I don't think that's excesive at all.... I think it's pretty dang good for the relatively small volume we are producing.

 

[petescoffee]

How about trying to offset some of the donations for Bue Ribbon etc. by having a Land Use Donation (or similar) line on the application/renewal form. I am a member of other clubs that do this.
Add a line that could go direct to land use organizations. The line should be in $5.00 incremenets or more. Perhaps it it would be to difficult to track and do the accounting, I don't know. but if everyone tacked on $5.00 per year as a added donation to land use that would be $18,000. (3600 members x $5.00).

just a thought.
Dave Thomas
Walnut Creek