Cutting Cost's instead of "thoughts on raising dues"

[General Sherman]

I'd just like to point out that $100k divided by (3600 members times 6 issues a year) is less than $5 per magazine to get it published and mailed out. I don't think that's excesive at all.... I think it's pretty dang good for the relatively small volume we are producing.

Every other mag in the free world runs around .83 cents an issue. Now i know trails isn't just any mag but yor argument isn't gonna cut it.

 

[KOWBOY]

General Sherman sir:

If'n you don't feel your currently gettin' your money's worth outta TLCA ... or it wouldn't be worth a few dollars more ... perhaps this ain't a good club for your needs.

This ain't the Army ... feel free to leave at any time.

 

[hatman406080]

General Sherman sir:

If'n you don't feel your currently gettin' your money's worth outta TLCA ... or it wouldn't be worth a few dollars more ... perhaps this ain't a good club for your needs.

This ain't the Army ... feel free to leave at any time.

x2

HATMAN

 

[General Sherman]

General Sherman sir:

If'n you don't feel your currently gettin' your money's worth outta TLCA ... or it wouldn't be worth a few dollars more ... perhaps this ain't a good club for your needs.

This ain't the Army ... feel free to leave at any time.

I new it was only a matter of time before some knucklehead threw that out. I'v already stated multiple times that whatever happens to OUR dues i will pay them and i will always be a member. However i don't see the logic in raising them without discusion. Not just BOD discussion, but member discusion. If that dosn't work for you maybe you should Get off you high Horse Kowboy and remember you can leave anytime as well. Remember you volunteer for the people you represent. Dicussions like these are one way to find out how the people who make up OUR club feel about any given topic. A post like yours might only detract someone from posting ther opinions and i think that shameful.
Money's worth is relative to everyone and since we've just started a new club with all but two of us being new to the TLCA i think it only responsible to ask questions that i know are going to be asked of me. I love the Trails as much as the next guy but my question to you is, Did you hate the trails before the UV Paper or fancy binding. If a raise in Dues takes care of the current shortcomings in our budget, so be it, But if it doesn't and we see a decline in membership i think we could be in trouble. I just want to see it dicussed before acted upon.
And one last thought...If this was the Army, I'd have your but doing pushups till the sun came up, Frances

 

[Ian Rogers]

what about a $10 membership that just excludes you from the TT ... I would be in for this.

 

[TUFFTORQ]

If'n you don't feel your currently gettin' your money's worth outta TLCA ... or it wouldn't be worth a few dollars more ... perhaps this ain't a good club for your needs.

This ain't the Army ... feel free to leave at any time.

well, now there's the attitude. If you speak up and give your opinion or suggestions and don't fit into the circle of el'clique, you can leave at anytime?

"perhaps this ain't a good club for your needs." If it was, us concerned folk wouldn't be speaking up. Alot of us have given our opinions, suggestions, and creative ideas to only be shut down with the "been there done that" clause. It seems that yall down home folk already made up your minds as our elected officials.

 

[TUFFTORQ]

...If this was the Army, I'd have your but doing pushups till the sun came up, Frances

full metal jacket;
"What have we here? Jesus H Christ, Pyle! Didn't mommy and daddy teach you the right way of life? You low life scum bag donut eatin...Get down and gimme 20 Pyle...Get the the !@#$ down. On your face numb nuts! If it weren't for idiots like you there wouldn't be any thievery in the world. Your other left you idiot!"

Oh wait, that was the Marine Corps, sorry Neil.

 

[wardfoto]

Every other mag in the free world runs around .83 cents an issue. Now i know trails isn't just any mag but yor argument isn't gonna cut it.

but at what circulation numbers? and how much of those other magazines is aimed at your truck, with your needs in mind? sure, i've read other four wheel drive magazines, but only in passing, and usually just to catch up on the roc series, or maybe a particular article caught my attention.
however, i certainly would never subscribe to them, as they simply don't fit my needs. i want to know what cool stuff, mods, and maintanance i need to focus on, in the attempt at bettering my rigs.
so, if these other magazines are able to do it for .83 cents an issue, my guess is that it's a numbers game. more numbers equals lower costs. i still don't seem to see any real reason not to raise the dues.
we get great volunteers, great paid employees/volunteers, we get great camaraderie. hell, we get that with some people we have never met. and that great camaraderie with people we've never met comes through trails. seems simple enough to me.
i posed the question before, so i'll pose it again. would you go home make cuts in your budget, and then voluntarily go tell your boss to pay you in 1996 wages? if you say yes, then you are lying.
and by saying we can keep T.L.C.A at it's current level, yes, including trails,without raising dues, then in effect, that's what you are asking the club to do.
i'm going to re iterate this, because i feel that people are fixating on the trails issue, because it's the most visible.
EVERY cost relating to running the club has gone up in the course of the last ten years. this means every cost, not just trails. cost of the insurance that makes the great events we attend possible. and let's not just assume that this is for a wheeling event, shall we? ask tony about the pmc swap meet. brought to you with insurance backing by us, the T.L.C.A.
in addition, we have office expenses, we have renewal reminders, we have dash plaques, we have all the little things that go with this. it's time to pony up, and to stop sqawking about a five, or even ten dollar raise.
if we have surplus, then you bet it'll go to the right places. that's what the top people are for. to help make sure this gets done.
i saw a post from one of our canadian brethren about land use issues there. i'm sure that we can help there. they are our cruiser brothers, just the same as any of us. we need to remember that we've got members as far away as australia, and that alot of the best parts for our rigs are not domestic.and we have to consider all of our members, and what will help us to serve them better.
by raising the dues to compensate, we create a better club, we are more able to give back to the land we use and love, and we keep a better trails. i just don't see how this can be considered a bad thing. remember, the decisions we make here will affect all our cruiser brothers and sisters, and i think it's time we raise the dues, give more back to our small, very specific group, and enjoy how great the club has become under our last couple of presidents, and how by raising dues to compensate for a ten year deficit of dues, we can continue to grow and prosper.
these are growing pains, people, and they hurt. but in the end, aren't they worth it?

 

[orangefj45]

here's a thought:

i have recently had the pleasure to take a look at a land rover magazine published by a group similar to the TLCA but obviously it's all about rovers. now we all know how many rovers there are in the states and how many cruisers there are here. if i had to take a guess, i'd say we outnumber those fellows by 3, maybe 5 to 1. does'nt really matter, for this point they might as well outnumber us. their mag is in full color, has tons of advertisers and it's probably close to 100 pages. so if they can afford to publish a mag like that and get it into the hands of their club members then why can't the TLCA do it? maybe it's time to make contact with somebody there and get their input. afterall, we're all foreign 4wd vehicle enthusiasts with basically the same interests, right?!

just a thought. so pleae keep in mind that i represent noone but myself and i'm not speaking on anybody's behalf. i'm not looking to be elected but i'll be more than happy to continue my TLCA membership and support as well as trying to recruit more members and help out in other ways.

georg

 

[KOWBOY]

If that dosn't work for you maybe you should Get off you high Horse Kowboy and remember you can leave anytime as well. Remember you volunteer for the people you represent. Dicussions like these are one way to find out how the people who make up OUR club feel about any given topic. A post like yours might only detract someone from posting ther opinions and i think that shameful.

Obviously I ain't leavin' TLCA ... but I got no problem at all ridin' my high horse right the hell off the BOD sir. I didn't volunteer to represent nobody. I volunteered to be the secretary 'cause there weren't nobody else would do it ... that simple. My opinions are harsh and represent only a very few members. I think your opinions are much more suited for the membership as a whole and therefore you are an excellent candidate to immediately replace me as secretary ... to prop'rly represent the masses. Feel free to begin at tomorrow night's BOD meetin'. Thanks for steppin' up.

And one last thought...If this was the Army, I'd have your but doing pushups till the sun came up, Frances

hehehe ... good stuff sir.

Those that know me ... know there in't no way in hell I could do a SINGLE pushup 'fore the sun came up ... much less all night. I'm so lazy I drive my ridin' mower or truck down the driveway just to check the mail.

 

[KOWBOY]

well, now there's the attitude. If you speak up and give your opinion or suggestions and don't fit into the circle of el'clique, you can leave at anytime?

Ya pretty much got it right .... but even if'n ya DON'T speak up, or DON'T give your opinion or suggestions, or DO fit into the circle of el'clique ... you can STILL leave at any time. There simply ain't no contractual obligation for ya to stay.

It seems that yall down home folk already made up your minds as our elected officials.

In no form or fashion will I speak on behalf of the other down home folks on the BOD ... but I assure ya that my mind's done made up. Which makes it even more timely that General Sherman's the secretary now. He will be much more attentive to the needs of the membership and can take all sides of this issue into full consideration before this issue comes up for a vote. However ... since I'm no longer the secretary ... I can now return to my humble role as Chapter Delegate for The White Trash ... and my mind's still made up to vote for an increase.

 

[Kaderabek]

here's a thought:

i have recently had the pleasure to take a look at a land rover magazine published by a group similar to the TLCA but obviously it's all about rovers. now we all know how many rovers there are in the states and how many cruisers there are here. if i had to take a guess, i'd say we outnumber those fellows by 3, maybe 5 to 1. does'nt really matter, for this point they might as well outnumber us. their mag is in full color, has tons of advertisers and it's probably close to 100 pages. so if they can afford to publish a mag like that and get it into the hands of their club members then why can't the TLCA do it? maybe it's time to make contact with somebody there and get their input. afterall, we're all foreign 4wd vehicle enthusiasts with basically the same interests, right?!

just a thought. so pleae keep in mind that i represent noone but myself and i'm not speaking on anybody's behalf. i'm not looking to be elected but i'll be more than happy to continue my TLCA membership and support as well as trying to recruit more members and help out in other ways.

georg

If we're talking about the same magazine it's published in the UK and distributed worldwide. That UK base would be the core that we don't have. Rover owners have had dealer support and interest for years so I believe them to be a more cohesive/larger group. This isn't a slight on Land Cruiser owners. The group that does exists is very cohesive. We're just small. Bear in mind also, that magazine is not a club magazine. It's a commercial magazine.

That's my take on things.

TJK

 

[Green Lantern]

Thanks Todd!

I would also add that the demographic for land rovers is more wealthy than the land cruiser crowd. Also, if you think about it, the Cruiser Community tends to be less rich and more involved than the other 4x4 groups.

I respect all of the opinions expressed in this thread. Respect doesn't mean I agree with you. If anyone reading this feels they can represent our membership, please become a delegate or run for office. On page 3 or 4 of ANY Toyota Trails, you can find phone numbers and email addys of the elected officials. DON'T COMPLAIN! Tell these men and women that you want to PARTICIPATE!

Stirring the pot.
Happy Trails! N

 

[woooody]

Let me pipe in again

My reason for even bringing up admin pay, or any other pay, is that the initial talk of dues increase/budget cuts was focused entirely on Trails. There is more to running TLCA than just Trails, and it's very short sighted to focus on one thing. I feel that it's better to look everywhere, and come to a better understanding of where we are, and where we need to be.

Having stated that, my fundamental belief is that our first correction is to increase funding, and not cutting costs. I say that because we are a much different organization than we were many years ago, and we've changed how we do business, and how we spend our money. Increasing membership allowed us to fund some of these projects, but we've seemd to peak, and I don't know that we should budget for a membership number that hasn't been attained.

I brought this thought up during our discussions of our 2006 budget back in Dec 05 / Jan 06. It was felt that we could absorb some loss, as we were "over funded". Measures were put into place to increase membership (and they are working) and focus in on how we sell advertising in Trails, etc.

These discussions on dues are necessary to plan the 2007 budget. I'm in favor of raising them, and think it's over due. Based on the numbers that we project, and where we think we need to spend money, we'll better know how well we can fund Trails (and everything else) in the future. Our paid contractors have a one year contract, and during the renewal of those contracts we can make sure that we are getting the best value for those moneys spent. We can also have discussions on how much we "need" spend vs how much we "have" to spend on everything. We can also review our Merchandise (ANC) agreement, and see if we are generating what we expect, and what measures should be taken if we aren't.

A bit long winded, but that's my thought process.

 

[streebeck]

Sounds like a bunch of cub scouts arguing over the last fruit cup...

I've been a member of TLCA for a whopping two weeks. I own a FJ Cruiser. I've been an off-roader for a whole three months. If the TLCA wishes to increase membership, they won't be successful unless they specifically target what they might loathe: the new breed of Land Cruiser owners, like me. Like it or not, Toyota is not making any more "old school" FJs with solid front axles and all that. The FJ Cruiser, for good or ill, is the future of the TLCA and that must be acknowledged and pursued: it is the TLCA's most viable market at this point in time.

What enticed me to join the TLCA? The ad in the Toyota FJ Cruiser magazine. I went to the website and the organization looked pretty cool. Think about it: Toyota sent 40,000 shiny, new FJ Cruisers to the USA ... 40,000 prospective members, who may even have friends who own Toyota 4x4s. It seems to me, after reading every post in this thread, that people like KOWBOY and, to some extent, DaveWest5150 (only as far as the "lazy little butts..." remark), would rather the TLCA stay isolated, in my opinion.

In addition, if you Veteran TLCA members really desire to increase membership, remarks such as "If'n you don't feel your currently gettin' your money's worth outta TLCA ... or it wouldn't be worth a few dollars more ... perhaps this ain't a good club for your needs." won't do much to attract new prospects. Remarks like that remind me of my USMC days, when the "old salts" used to say things like "I've got more time sitting on the pot than you have in the Corps" or "I've got more time fast roping out of the back of a CH-46 than you have in the Corps." I guess what I'm trying to say is that remarks like KOWBOY's (who I'm sure has more time in the driver's seat of a Toyota FJ than I had in the Corps) do absolutely nothing to attract new members, and may even dissuade those who may be on the fence.

As a sales and marketing manager for a fairly large dental laboratory in Southern California, I am responsible for creating and implementing yearly marketing plans. I also am responsible for finding new dentist accounts via telephone and in-person cold-calls. Why do I bother mentioning this? Well, because it appears that the TLCA is trying to do the same thing, but replace "dentists" with "off-roader Toyota owners" ... The important thing: the TLCA MUST run the club as a business or membership will eventually dwindle to less than a slow drip. The TLCA is "selling" something: an off-road image, member-only events, etc., etc. Much like churches recruit for new parishoners, the TLCA must actively recruit through their own "churches": off-road shops and Toyota dealerships sympathetic to the TLCA's cause. Hell, could you imagine how many memberships could be sold at the time of a vehicle's purchase? To use the church analogy again, most people have a sincere desire to BELONG to something, which is why religion (specifically, in certain instances, church affiliation) is such a booming industry. If you disagree, please pay a visit to Corona, CA and I'll give you a tour.

To be clear and to hopefully un-ruffle some feathers of those who are very religious, my intent is not to debate or negatively comment on the growth of organized religion. More to the point, like religion, off-roading is a lifestyle. And in order to attract the members the TLCA seems to be seeking, they must capitalize on the current market trends - by attracting prospects to the lifestyle.

Before someone throws out a "put up or shut up," I will say that my volunteer marketing services (specifically, the creation of both a one-year and five-year marketing plan) are available for a small "contribution" of a case of Heineken. Said contribution would not be expected until some sort of measurable success is achieved. Interested parties may reach me via email using my forum log-on @yahoo.com.

Beyond all that, I would like to say that I am happy to be a member of this association and I look forward to participating in one of the sponsored events in the near future.

Respectfully,


"streebeck"

P.S.: If the TLCA's members are as die-hard as they appear to be, judging from the posts on this forum, a membership dues increase should be implemented immediately. Like KOWBOY said, this isn't the army. If the TLCA's executive and administrative branches are using the dues wisely, they would no doubt immediately benefit from a significant increase of, say, 20-30%. That would help fill the coffers quickly and give the board a bit of wiggle room while they decide how to move forward.

 

[TUFFTORQ]

I've been a member of TLCA for a whopping two weeks. I own a FJ Cruiser. I've been an off-roader for a whole three months. If the TLCA wishes to increase membership, they won't be successful unless they specifically target what they might loathe: the new breed of Land Cruiser owners, like me. Like it or not, Toyota is not making any more "old school" FJs with solid front axles and all that. The FJ Cruiser, for good or ill, is the future of the TLCA and that must be acknowledged and pursued: it is the TLCA's most viable market at this point in time.

What enticed me to join the TLCA? The ad in the Toyota FJ Cruiser magazine. I went to the website and the organization looked pretty cool. Think about it: Toyota sent 40,000 shiny, new FJ Cruisers to the USA ... 40,000 prospective members, who may even have friends who own Toyota 4x4s. It seems to me, after reading every post in this thread, that people like KOWBOY and, to some extent, DaveWest5150 (only as far as the "lazy little butts..." remark), would rather the TLCA stay isolated, in my opinion.

In addition, if you Veteran TLCA members really desire to increase membership, remarks such as "If'n you don't feel your currently gettin' your money's worth outta TLCA ... or it wouldn't be worth a few dollars more ... perhaps this ain't a good club for your needs." won't do much to attract new prospects. Remarks like that remind me of my USMC days, when the "old salts" used to say things like "I've got more time sitting on the pot than you have in the Corps" or "I've got more time fast roping out of the back of a CH-46 than you have in the Corps." I guess what I'm trying to say is that remarks like KOWBOY's (who I'm sure has more time in the driver's seat of a Toyota FJ than I had in the Corps) do absolutely nothing to attract new members, and may even dissuade those who may be on the fence.

As a sales and marketing manager for a fairly large dental laboratory in Southern California, I am responsible for creating and implementing yearly marketing plans. I also am responsible for finding new dentist accounts via telephone and in-person cold-calls. Why do I bother mentioning this? Well, because it appears that the TLCA is trying to do the same thing, but replace "dentists" with "off-roader Toyota owners" ... The important thing: the TLCA MUST run the club as a business or membership will eventually dwindle to less than a slow drip. The TLCA is "selling" something: an off-road image, member-only events, etc., etc. Much like churches recruit for new parishoners, the TLCA must actively recruit through their own "churches": off-road shops and Toyota dealerships sympathetic to the TLCA's cause. Hell, could you imagine how many memberships could be sold at the time of a vehicle's purchase? To use the church analogy again, most people have a sincere desire to BELONG to something, which is why religion (specifically, in certain instances, church affiliation) is such a booming industry. If you disagree, please pay a visit to Corona, CA and I'll give you a tour.

To be clear and to hopefully un-ruffle some feathers of those who are very religious, my intent is not to debate or negatively comment on the growth of organized religion. More to the point, like religion, off-roading is a lifestyle. And in order to attract the members the TLCA seems to be seeking, they must capitalize on the current market trends - by attracting prospects to the lifestyle.

Before someone throws out a "put up or shut up," I will say that my volunteer marketing services (specifically, the creation of both a one-year and five-year marketing plan) are available for a small "contribution" of a case of Heineken. Said contribution would not be expected until some sort of measurable success is achieved. Interested parties may reach me via email using my forum log-on @yahoo.com.

Beyond all that, I would like to say that I am happy to be a member of this association and I look forward to participating in one of the sponsored events in the near future.

Respectfully,


"streebeck"

P.S.: If the TLCA's members are as die-hard as they appear to be, judging from the posts on this forum, a membership dues increase should be implemented immediately. Like KOWBOY said, this isn't the army. If the TLCA's executive and administrative branches are using the dues wisely, they would no doubt immediately benefit from a significant increase of, say, 20-30%. That would help fill the coffers quickly and give the board a bit of wiggle room while they decide how to move forward.

Welcome aboard Streebeck! I believe we're thinking alike...

 

[streebeck]

Funny, TUFFTORQ, I was thinking the same thing... Thanks for the beer!

 

[woooody]

<snip>
Beyond all that, I would like to say that I am happy to be a member of this association and I look forward to participating in one of the sponsored events in the near future.

Respectfully,


"streebeck"

P.S.: If the TLCA's members are as die-hard as they appear to be, judging from the posts on this forum, a membership dues increase should be implemented immediately. Like KOWBOY said, this isn't the army. If the TLCA's executive and administrative branches are using the dues wisely, they would no doubt immediately benefit from a significant increase of, say, 20-30%. That would help fill the coffers quickly and give the board a bit of wiggle room while they decide how to move forward.

First, let me say Welcome to the club.

Thanks for the input... You have some good ideas, and I don't want to re-hash them all, but your PS was interesting.

Simply stated -- would a quick increase give us the "wiggle room" to do the other things we want to do, that would increase membership?

In other words -- it takes money to make money. A $3 dues raise gets us back up to the point where we would be budgeting breaking even (vs budgeting a loss). If we spent as much time going back and forth on other issues as we did on the dues/trails thing, would TLCA be a better org?

 

[KOWBOY]

... In addition, if you Veteran TLCA members really desire to increase membership, remarks such as "If'n you don't feel your currently gettin' your money's worth outta TLCA ... or it wouldn't be worth a few dollars more ... perhaps this ain't a good club for your needs." won't do much to attract new prospects ...

Beyond all that, I would like to say that I am happy to be a member of this association and I look forward to participating in one of the sponsored events in the near future.

My position on attractin' new members is well documented sir ... which is why it's a damn good thang Chef's drivin' this bus and not me.

But with that said ...

Welcome aboard sir ... and By Gawd, I hope to see ya at your first event.

 

[streebeck]

Simply stated -- would a quick increase give us the "wiggle room" to do the other things we want to do, that would increase membership?

Woody:

Thank you for the kind welcome.

A quick increase of between $6-10 would get the TLCA in the black and provide additional funds to implement programs that would (eventually) increase membership. If your veteran (or existing) members have been paying the $25 per year, asking them to pony up an extra $10 (which is less than a dollar per month) should not be much of an issue. If that increase creates a surplus, then the TLCA would be in a better position to implement and distribute improved marketing materials; for instance, the flyers that your webmaster/marketing guy proposed in an earlier posting. A surplus could fund local volunteer membership drives, etc. As far as "other things" are concerned, I am way too much of a novice here to know what those things are. Could you please educate me?

In other words -- it takes money to make money. A $3 dues raise gets us back up to the point where we would be budgeting breaking even (vs budgeting a loss). If we spent as much time going back and forth on other issues as we did on the dues/trails thing, would TLCA be a better org?

Unfortunately, I am not personally familiar with the TLCA's financial situation. However, I have gathered from other posts that there is a problem. If the current balance sheet is in the red, and the projected forecast shows red as well, and given the fact that dues have not been increased in several years, and given the fact that a $3 increase (which is more like 10-15% instead of the 20-30% I stated in the P.S.) gets the budget back on track for now.... well, that would seem to be the priority to me: getting back in the black instead of the red. Further, I agree with you entirely as far as your "it takes money to make money" comment. That's why raising dues is necessary; not only to fund the existing programs/events/Toyota Trails, but to prevent cutting back on those same things (which the TLCA will be forced to do eventually if the current situation is allowed to remain). I hate to answer a question with a question, but I'm a trained salesman: would the TLCA be a better organization if (a) the dues remain the same and (b) events were cut and Toyota Trails was printed in a lower quality as a result of NOT increasing dues?

Wow... this is interesting. I'm going to make myself a Jack & Coke. I'll be back in a few...