Custom Cabinets - Should I accept Veneer?

[Jetboy]

It's finished. Just a shade under a decade... (about 4 weeks)

I'm reasonably happy with how they turned out. He's actually doing one set of panels not in the plans for the underside of the upper cabinets (they will look like door panels on the bottom of a row of 12" tall uppers over the sink). Those should be done in the next day or two.

Counters will be installed Friday. Then I can put up some final pictures along with some of the original kitchen.

I actually wanted to keep the original cabinets, but it just didn't work out to find enough to finish it out. We bought the house from the 2nd owner and it has never been updated other than painting. It's an early 50's house. It had some cool stamped metal cabinets. Unfortunately there was no dishwasher, and only cabinets in half of the kitchen area as the other half was supposed to be a small dining area. We wanted to make the entire thing kitchen. If we could have found good replica cabinets or even some matching original ones we probably would have gone that route. Either way you end up stuck with shelves that don't move, so you can't put a box of cereal in because a 2010 box is 16" tall and they're made for 12" tall 1950's boxes.

One item I tried to save was a giant sink with full drain pans on both sides making it about 5 feet wide. I tried to save it, still have it, but I couldn't find anyone who would re-finish the ceramic coating. There are lots of epoxies, but most accounts they don't hold up to kitchen use. I called everyone I could think of, even called the university ceramics department to see if I could pay them to do it as a class project or something. I only found two places, one in California and one in Penn. I think that will actually re-fire glaze on, and the shipping plus the cost to re-fire was too much. It's a neat sink but I'm not sure it's 2 or 3 thousand dollars neat in a house that's not going to be our life long home. The only option I thought of later was to possibly find a sink manufacturer in the US that would re-glaze it with their own stuff if I had it prepped and shipped to them.

Anyway, it's almost done. I'm planning to move in this weekend if the granite guys do a decent job. I'm nervous about that. How do you choose a good granite fabricator? I got estimates from half a dozen on a list given to me by the granite slab supplier and they were priced in the middle of the pack and invited me to their shop whenever I wanted to see the work they had done that day going out the next for installing. They had a clean shop with a big computerized bridge saw, so at least they have the tools to properly cut the slab, although some shops do have water jets, which are probably the best. We'll find out on Friday.

 

[Jetboy]

So here's some final pics. Still a few odds and ends, but pretty close.

 

[titanpat57]

I disagree.

On a raised panel I would look for solid, but on a shaker, the panel will be a 1/4", or at most 1/2" thick, and I think that a thin panel like that would be much better being veneered over a partical board or MDF core.

On some raised panel jobs, we will edge an mdf panel with a solid, then veneer the panel, and finally shape a profile on the solid edge

You get a much more stable panel, and you get a better grain match.

Veneer does not mean a lesser grade product.

Jetboy, you can ask your cabinet maker why he used veneer but I expect he will tell you what I have just said.

Post a few pics.

I agree with this also...plus in the long run much more "stable" (less chances of warp or twisting) Sturdiness is a moot point if fabricated and installed properly.

I'd much rather have a better grade of drawer slide, or three hinges per door vs. two, then worry about if it's solid.

Any wood worth a s*** left in the US is exported out long before it reaches the consumer, to the highest bidder.

Plus if he's a reputable shop he'll stand behind his product

 

[Woodsman]

Pretty good advice in above post. Below are examples of the grain match potential when using veneers. In this case, it is a condo I did for the CEO of Cummins back in 07-08. All finished veneer on the job was either MDF core or poplar veneer core. MDF will swell like a mother if it gets soaking wet so I use veneer core where panels meet the floor or where greater screw holding is needed. These are just a few highlights.

Blueprint matched quartersawn and figured eucalyptus was used in the kitchen, office and butler's pantry of which one of two walls is shown here. The four big drawers all have refrigerating or freezing drawers.

Blueprint matched quartersawn and figured English sycamore was used in the bedroom, bath, laundry and his and hers master closets. The faceted wall opposite the bed is seen here.

Blueprint matched plain sliced Santos rosewood was used in the "men's lounge and theater". Grain matching here was difficult because the recessed openings on each side drop down to expose additional LDC monitors.

Hijack over.

 

[wob]

Hijack over.

Damn, dude - nice work.

 

[45Kevin]

Nice results Jetboy. And two sinks, spiffy.

Woodsman, didn't you sign a non-disclosure contract when you got that job? tsk, tsk, tsk

What did you finish the rosewood with? We just did a job with santos rosewood and finished it with a high gloss poly. We are currently having some problems witht the finish lifting on some panels. Turns out the oils in some of the veneers is reacting with the poly. It is a bitch to fix after it is all installed. To the tune of about $15k.

 

[Woodsman]

Nice results Jetboy. And two sinks, spiffy.

Woodsman, didn't you sign a non-disclosure contract when you got that job? tsk, tsk, tsk

What did you finish the rosewood with? We just did a job with santos rosewood and finished it with a high gloss poly. We are currently having some problems witht the finish lifting on some panels. Turns out the oils in some of the veneers is reacting with the poly. It is a ***** to fix after it is all installed. To the tune of about $15k.

No non-disclosure contract.

Everything in the condo was finished with ML Campbells Krystal Satin conversion varnish as a self-seal system with three coats total and thoroughly sanded with 220 between coats. Wiping exotic woods and veneers with alcohol just prior to gluing or finishing promotes adhesion by taking the natural oil off of the surface. The worst wood I found with this issue is teak. Good luck getting it all fixed up.

 

[Jetboy]

Nice results Jetboy. And two sinks, spiffy.

Woodsman, didn't you sign a non-disclosure contract when you got that job? tsk, tsk, tsk

What did you finish the rosewood with? We just did a job with santos rosewood and finished it with a high gloss poly. We are currently having some problems witht the finish lifting on some panels. Turns out the oils in some of the veneers is reacting with the poly. It is a bitch to fix after it is all installed. To the tune of about $15k.

Thanks. I'm generally happy with how it turned out.

The range now sits right where the sink was in the old kitchen was. Since the plumbing was already there, it was kind of a no-brainer to add the prep sink. The water supply is easy, but I'm not sure I would have gone to the work to add new drain and venting if it weren't already there.

It is pretty handy. Especially when my wife and I are both working in the kitchen. I wasn't planning to, but Costco had a sale on garbage disposals, so we put a second one in the prep sink. I find that I use that disposal as much if not more than the one in the other sink.

One issue I've run into is what to do with wet rags. Our water is pretty hard and it will leave spots on the faucet if I put them over the faucet to air dry, but since there's a window right behind the main sink and only a pony wall behind the other sink, neither has a spot to put a towel rack. It seems trivial, but it really is a pain not to have a good place to stick a wet towel or rag. Any ideas?

My only thought so far would be to use some stainless rod and make a little hanger rail and either weld or bolt onto the inside of the sink basin near the top. Both sinks are reasonably deep so it should have room to hang.

 

[Jetboy]

Woodsman,

I love the wood grains in the third picture. Out of curiosity, what does a sheet of that veneer cost?

 

[Woodsman]

Woodsman,

I love the wood grains in the third picture. Out of curiosity, what does a sheet of that veneer cost?

Oh, it's been about four years ago but it was probably around $10 per sf as a veneer sheet and more if layed up on a panel core. We used a meranti backer veneer on almost everything but there were a few places where we needed finished veneer on both sides and it was close to $20 per sf.

 

[45Kevin]

We payed about $5/sf for the santos rosewood and used a waste factor of about 2:1. Core is about $1/sf and backer is usually priced at $0.25/sf. So that is $11.25/sf for material.

I doubt that Woodsman would have "bought" those panels. He either made them himself or paid to have someone else lay them up to his specifications.

Our shop has a veneer room and a 10' x 4' hotpress to make custom panels.

 

[Woodsman]

We payed about $5/sf for the santos rosewood and used a waste factor of about 2:1. Core is about $1/sf and backer is usually priced at $0.25/sf. So that is $11.25/sf for material.

I doubt that Woodsman would have "bought" those panels. He either made them himself or paid to have someone else lay them up to his specifications.

Our shop has a veneer room and a 10' x 4' hotpress to make custom panels.

Correct. I outsourced these from a vendor in southern Indiana called Custom Plywood and they were all layed up as "blueprint matched" and "running match" which adds to the cost. They were also polish sanded and ready for final sanding.

 

[titanpat57]

Kitchen rocks Jetboy...

Great workmanship Woodsman!