Custom Cabinets - Should I accept Veneer?

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Jetboy

Jetboy

10 Year 15 Year 20 Year
Joined
Sep 16, 2004
Threads
118
Messages
3,248
Long story short, went with local cabinet maker vs. big box store. Construction is slow, wanted to help out a local. Price was about 10% higher than higher end ordered cabs from HD/Lowes.

So we finalized a plan for natural cherry shaker style doors and simple slab style drawer fronts. So we're already about two weeks late. He installed the boxes about a week ago and hasn't done much since. A few doors have been installed and today he dropped off drawer fronts.

They are Veneer over what looks like Alder or something similar. We never specified in the plans that they would be solid, but I think it was just assumed. I'm ok with veneer in the door panels, but I'm not sure if I should demand solid drawer fronts.

What's your take?


FWIW the kitchen plans include 6 lower cabinets w/ 10 total doors 2 full sets of 4 drawers, role out shelves, 6 upper cabinets with 12 doors, and a full fridge surround in natural cherry for ~ $8k installed. (12x12 kitchen).

thanks,

Jetboy
 
Jetboy said:
Long story short, went with local cabinet maker vs. big box store. Construction is slow, wanted to help out a local. Price was about 10% higher than higher end ordered cabs from HD/Lowes.

So we finalized a plan for natural cherry shaker style doors and simple slab style drawer fronts. So we're already about two weeks late. He installed the boxes about a week ago and hasn't done much since. A few doors have been installed and today he dropped off drawer fronts.

They are Veneer over what looks like Alder or something similar. We never specified in the plans that they would be solid, but I think it was just assumed. I'm ok with veneer in the door panels, but I'm not sure if I should demand solid drawer fronts.

What's your take?


FWIW the kitchen plans include 6 lower cabinets w/ 10 total doors 2 full sets of 4 drawers, role out shelves, 6 upper cabinets with 12 doors, and a full fridge surround in natural cherry for ~ $8k installed. (12x12 kitchen).

thanks,

Jetboy
Click to expand...

Drawer fronts and cabinets doors should be solid. Not really that expensive.
 
That was my expectation. I'm not happy with what I'm seeing. Just wanted a little confirmation before I have a "chat" tomorrow. I've paid half, so I still am in a decent bargaining position.
 
I work for fair sized custom architectural millwork company. We do a lot of high end millwork.

We did this house a few years ago.

Billionaire pays $100 million for mansion - Business - Eye on the Economy - Stocks & economy - msnbc.com

Shaker door and drawer fronts should have solid wood rails and stiles and a veneered panel. Probably on the drawer fronts, the grain of the panel is running vertical. You should get a much nicer grain match using the veneer.


For only 10% more you got to order exactly what you wanted (I hope) instead of what HD had on the menu.

I hope you went for the soft-close doors and drawers. It should be a fairly inexpensive upgrade.

I don't know where you live, but $8K installed sounds like a good price to me. And by putting the boxes in first, you can get the counter template quicker.
 
batcon said:
Solid doors and drawer fronts are standard. $8000.00 sounds like a good deal.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

On a raised panel I would look for solid, but on a shaker, the panel will be a 1/4", or at most 1/2" thick, and I think that a thin panel like that would be much better being veneered over a partical board or MDF core.

On some raised panel jobs, we will edge an mdf panel with a solid, then veneer the panel, and finally shape a profile on the solid edge

You get a much more stable panel, and you get a better grain match.

Veneer does not mean a lesser grade product.

Jetboy, you can ask your cabinet maker why he used veneer but I expect he will tell you what I have just said.

Post a few pics.
 
I was OK with the doors, but I've never seen veneer drawer fronts other than cheep IKEA stuff. (not that there's anything wrong with IKEA, but I could have saved a lot by going with IKEA) If I had it to do over I probably would have built them myself.
 
Last edited:
Couple pics
P1000917.webp
P1000918.webp
P1000920.webp
 
I think I see what your concern is. Is that a drawer front in pic 2?

Unless your drawer fronts are really narrow,like on a 2" deep drawer,you should have the solid rail and stile with a flat panel in it. It looks like all your drawers are high enough to accomodate a rail and stile front.

Looks like a nice kitchen. Very open.
 
It sounds like you are not getting the rail and stile feature on the drawer fronts.

Is pic 2 a drawer front?

It looks like all your drawer fronts can accomodate the R&S construction. As the drawers get less deep, the R&S is made proportionally narrower to allow for a flat panel.

See this link

Orwell Kitchen - Wren Kitchens
 
Yes, it's a drawer front in the second picture next to the upper cabinet doors. I had the option of either rail/style drawer fronts or slab style drawer fronts. I chose the slab style. The drawers vary from 6" to 12" deep. I thought the 6" drawers looked funny with a R&S construction so I had them all made the same.

He emailed me back last night that he prefers veneer fronts because they are less likely to warp or cup. Not sure how it's different when they are applied on another solid wood. Not sure what it is, but appear so be white cedar? It's a uniform tight grained (no more than 3/16" grain separation) light colored wood and it's roughly twice as heavy as pine. Not sure what it is.
 
Sounds like the guy is just trying to save money on material. Based on the box construction of the drawers themselves cupping isn't going to be a problem. Besides, if it's a veneer on top of a solid piece of alder it probably wouldn't help any movement problems. Alder is much cheaper than cherry, but it looks really similar and if all sides were finished the same it'd be hard to tell.

All in all, I'd be expecting solid cherry drawer fronts.

Ah... just read all of your last post. The board used to apply the cherry veneer isn't alder. Most people couldn't tell the difference between cherry and "poor man's cherry"... alder. If you posted a close up we could probably tell you what it is... but your cabinet guy will tell you. I'd still insist on solid drawer fronts. What he's doing is seems pretty unusual. Don't worry about the veneered panel. You're probably better off with that and a solid panel in that door would cost more than it's worth.
 
Last edited:
fyton2v said:
Sounds like the guy is just trying to save money on material. Based on the box construction of the drawers themselves cupping isn't going to be a problem. Besides, if it's a veneer on top of a solid piece of alder it probably wouldn't help any movement problems. Alder is much cheaper than cherry, but it looks really similar and if all sides were finished the same it'd be hard to tell.

All in all, I'd be expecting solid cherry drawer fronts.

Ah... just read all of your last post. The board used to apply the cherry veneer isn't alder. Most people couldn't tell the difference between cherry and "poor man's cherry"... alder. If you posted a close up we could probably tell you what it is... but your cabinet guy will tell you. I'd still insist on solid drawer fronts. What he's doing is seems pretty unusual. Don't worry about the veneered panel. You're probably better off with that and a solid panel in that door would cost more than it's worth.
Click to expand...


I guess that's what I don't really understand. There are only 11 drawer fronts. I think it ends up around sq ft of surface area. So say he buys total of probably 20 bf. At $8/bf that's only $160 for solid cherry. By the time you apply veneer faces, veneer tape around the edges, sand and finish it all, if you're time's worth anything I don't see how you'd save anything. With solid you'd just rip the wood down to size, cut the lengths, either run em through a planer or sand them quick and put a clear on. It would take a fraction of the time. And I'd guess cherry veneer plus alder ends up around $4-5 per bf. So you're spending the extra time to save like $50? Doesn't make sense.

Whatever boards are used underneath (not home so I don't have a picture) are not single cut slabs. They are 3 or 4" wide pieces laminated together (like a cutting board). I'd guess they would be reasonably stable.
 
Last edited:
Also I should add that he showed us 3 homes in our area that he had done in similar cherry. The guy's a one man show, but he's been around a while and past projects are still happy to let him in to show customers his work, so I guess they're happy. He claims that they are all done the same way. I may ask to go see them again to verify. I really liked the way they looked and said that that was what I would like. So, I guess if that's the case I'll go with it. I just want to make sure I'm getting what I bargained for.
 
All true. Just doesn't make sense why the guy would throw on a veneer. Perhaps he doesn't make the doors or drawers himself and just orders them from one of those large cabinet manufacturers... and this is their option for saving money across tens of thousands of bf.

Yup. I'm going with "he didn't make them". It's too much labor to veneer. Doesn't make the kitchen un-custom, but the cabinet maker would be more of a cabinet installer.
 
I'm pretty sure they're hand made. I've been to his shop a couple times. I just spoke with him on the phone. He said that the cherry tends to dry out in Utah and will end up cupping unless you cut it down to around 2.5 inch strips and laminate them. He said it doesn't save him anything because of the extra time to put them together. I'm just not sure. I've never build cabinets.
 
More developments: Spoke with him today. He's worried I'm not happy and he's not going to get paid. He wants another 25% to go on. I'm not sure I want to pay more before the job is done. So we're at a bit of a stalemate. I have good references including a well respected former law professor who's had him do 5 or 6 jobs and was very happy. On the other hand, we're about a week and a half into installing these and only at the point you see in the pictures. not much is happening. I'm not sure what's reasonable for custom cabinets as far as time goes.
 
Is this demand for another 25% different from what you agreed on at the beginning? If so,that is somewhat unprofessional.

A wood like alder is more stable than cherry, and he is right that it is more work to edge glue alder and then veneer over it. If he just edge glued the cherry, your drawer fronts would look like a hardwood floor. You know, 2 inch strips.

What's your plan for the corner cabinet? I wen t with this, VAUTH-SAGEL Systemtechnik | Twin corner
 
Yes. This is another 25% that was not in the agreement. We paid half up front and agreed to pay half upon completion. We have made changes along the way. Went from raised panels to recessed, stained to clear, changed a couple hinges, and added about $300 in material for cherry veneer ply material for 8 upper cabinets that are not in the picture, but will go above the window and have glass doors. So some changes, but in terms of final cost, shouldn't be a significant difference. Assuming no price change for dropping from raised panel to recessed (I think I'm being generous here) and switching 8 cabs to flush mount style hinges rather than overlay (so the upper 8 doors all have similar spacing on both sides) and adding the $300 for different material on the uppers, I figure we're less than $400 additional.

That corner cabinet pull out looks pretty slick. The corners will have bi-fold doors and planned for a single shelf internally at about half height. What is a price on one of those?


He's claiming that my questioning and concerns are raising red flags for him that he won't get paid. I guess I can understand that, but s*** - I'm frustrated because if he finishes next week we'll be at 3 1/2 weeks from when he set the boxes in. That's a LONG time IMO. Granted they are custom built to fit very close, it still seems like I could have built them myself in that time around my day job.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom