Converting KC halogens to HID. (1 Viewer)

[lugueto]

Hey guys,

I posted a thread in the 80 series forum without knowing there was a lighting sub forum and got a good grip of the advantages of LED and HID and their disadvantages as well. I was considering a brighter, more efficient substitute to my 130W Rally 800's. So in the effort of not hijacking any other thread, here's a couple of questions

Ive been thinking, and seeing how Rigids are so damn expensive and I cant get a hold of 2000UZJ's lights, I want to see the hpefully cheaper alternative, which is converting these lights to HID. Why not? I mean, theyre amazing quality lights and finding metal housed lights for a good price is not easy, so im better off keeping these.

I can't seem to find a "plug and play" conversion kit, not even from KC itself, even though they sell these exact same lights on 50W HID (For 1400 bucks ). Do you guys know of any complete kits available for purchase? Preferably specific for off road or auxiliary light use.

What wattage should I be getting, 50W 35W? I want a good, quality kit. One thing to consider is, I HATE blue light, i'd be looking for clear white light, and I dont exactly know the color temperature for natural white light but i'd be leaning in that direction for sure.

The other option is to build my own, although i'd rather buy a complete kit, but if you guys can give me some pointers as to how to do it, I can do it.

Here in Venezuela, I can find HID kits everywhere, but im a little concerned as to the quality of these, they're usually cheap chinese kits and shine a hideous, useless blue light out of them. Rarely ever see white HID conversions down here.

Maybe further down the line I can get a small rigid bar in a driving pattern to get some low-mid range light to compliment for long range HID's.

Help please?? ANY feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Luis.

 

[Tapage]

more hi the temp on the HID more bluish it will be .. so keep it close to 4300K

Morimoto IMOH are one of the best on HID and VisionX ..

I was looking to convert my Warn SDB210 ( very popular down there ) to HID but the main issue with the conversion it's simple the fact, you have to had proper HID projector to get the HID do what I want ..

 

[lugueto]

The projector issue may be true for headlight conversions (The Warn's are H4s no?), but seeing as KC offers the exact same lights with a 50W HID variation, and mine are simple spot patterns, Im not concerned.

SO I'm looking to find something in the likes of 50W, close to 4300K.

Brands? Where to buy??

Thank you Mr Tapage, Saludos!

 

[Tapage]

The projector issue may be true for headlight conversions (The Warn's are H4s no?),

Yep WARN's are H4 but glass pattern isn't HID compatible ( since uses H4 ) .. got a pic of your glasses ?

 

[Mark W]

The lens of a driving light whether it is a halogen light or an HID is almost always clear and unfluted and contributes nothing to the pattern at the light.

The reflector is where all the work is done..

What will cause problems in an HID conversion to get the correct pattern, is that the HID bulb is aligned axially while an H3 bulb is a aligned transversely. An H4 bulb is also aligned axially but the filaments are not located the same in relation to the base. This means that the light source... the arc... Of the HID will not be properly positioned for the reflector to function as designed to focus the light.

Most generally the result will be loss of any tight focus and definition of the pattern from the light. this will affect the lights down range abilities more than anything else, and spread a lot more scatter in the close in areas.

If you're using your lights more for slow speed or close in work this may not be a problem. And if you dump enough photons into the reflector it may throw enough down range to give you satisfactory application there too.

In any event an HID conversion will almost never give the same performance that a dedicated HID reflector will.


Mark...

 

[Fast Eddy]

The old KCs I have are sealed beams, not H4s, similar to aircraft landing lights. They are not possible to convert without introducing an H4-based reflector into the housing. I've got six of them too. They are not called "Daylighters" for nothing. I think you could roast marshmallows at 100 paces with them.

 

[Tapage]

Don't get the relation between this

and this

Don't get the lens comparison they are not even close .. .

 

[Mark W]

that is because the first picture is a picture of a projector light... a front projector light. In that design the lens does the focusing rather than the reflector.

This is becoming a more common design in halogen and an HID lights as technology advances and makes it easier to produce them. It is more of an advantage for low beams where precise cutoff of the light pattern is needed.


Your second picture is a more traditional light where the reflector does the focusing... a rear projection approach if you will.

This approach will work with an HID driving light if the reflector is designed properly.


Mark...

 

[Mark W]

also in your second picture, the fluting on that lens indicates that it is not a pure driving light but a light that is designed to throw more illumination to the side as well.


Mark...

 

[Fast Eddy]

also in your second picture, the fluting on that lens indicates that it is not a pure driving light but a light that is designed to throw more illumination to the side as well.

I like me some "illumination to the side" while I'm driving. I'll call those driving lights. KCs I would call pencil beams and more suited to really fast driving.

I found a pair of Cibie Oscars (driving lights) I'm going to mount on the bumper to match my Cibie e-code headlights. They have fluted lenses to provide side illumination as well and were the most popular rally lights for decades, usually paired with some pencil beams.

The old KCs I have use bulbs like this, so are not easily retrofitted.

 

[Mark W]

Yeah what is or is not a driving light gets a vague and harder to define than a pencil beam. Personally for road use I find my low beams and normal high beams provide enough side illumination, and most pencil beams lose enough to side scatter tbat the additional illumination they provide outside of the focused beam is actually fairly significant. but it does become a personal perception and taste type of thing.

For trail use even most driving lights are more focused than I really like.


Mark...

 

[Fast Eddy]

Yeah what is or is not a driving light gets a vague and harder to define than a pencil beam. Personally for road use I find my low beams and normal high beams provide enough side illumination, and most pencil beams lose enough to side scatter tbat the additional illumination they provide outside of the focused beam is actually fairly significant. but it does become a personal perception and taste type of thing.

The KC lights are like spot lights; almost no scatter. With six of them on a bar it doesn't matter much, but that's 60 amps. My neighbor gave them to me and they live in a box.

For trail use even most driving lights are more focused than I really like.

Check out the little flood pods in the group buy. I got one sent to me early to evaluate, so I can decide how many I want. They throw a huge amount of light for $35. There is no hot-spot at all, just a giant flood of white. I'm trying to figure out where to mount them and how many.

I suspect the quad xt would be more light than you'd ever need for trail running.

 

[Mark W]

I've had my share of daylighter and similar lights over the years. I normally run high performance headlights as well, so I have plenty of mid range and side illumination from those. I run the auxiliary lights to punch through and beyond were even the higher performance headlights will reach.

With gray hair on their legs and lower body and virtually black hair on their upper body, moose really disappear at night. Even when the lights are on them they can be really tough to see.

As purely a guess, I would expect that an HID conversion kit in a set of pencil beams, spot lights, or tight pattern driving lights... or whatever label you choose to use... would likely lose focus enough to provide a broader spread that might be exactly what most people are looking for. And with the extra raw light that a set of 50 watt HIDs can dump into the reflector, you might not lose anything down range either.

But I haven't tried it yet so it is just conjecture on my part at this point.

Mark...

 

[Tapage]

Maybe I'm just plain wirng but my definition of driving lights include clear light cut so you can use it all the time and it will not borher/blind incoming drivers..

That's what I like the most of those warns low beam plenty of light that will not be an problem for incoming drivers and in the same light the hi beam option that will throw good amount of light far away on the road..

Sent from my big phone using IH8MUD

 

[Mark W]

What you're describing there would be... your low beams? If you design the light so it does not blind on coming drivers then it really cannot reach out very far ahead of you. It is not a matter of power but rather of focus. Among other things the focus of the light... below the cut off if you will... Has to be angled low enough so it is below the eye line for oncoming drivers. This consideration makes it impossible to push the light into the distance. It can only be aimed close in and at short range.

What you are describing really is just a low beam beam headlight. An auxiliary light could be designed with the same restrictions and dump more light into the area in front of you where the low beam illuminates but it still would not reach any further down the road.

What we are calling a driving light is a light intended to reach out further than your high beams to provide illumination down the road but also additional illumination to the sides to light up the surrounding area more than your headlights do.

If the light is designed to focus even tighter... trading off illumination to the sides for much more light pushed into the distance, then it is more commonly referred to as a pencil beam.

There's a bit of a grey area between what is a driving light and what is a pencil beam due to different designs from different manufacturers in different models offered with different names. And of course different needs and different perception of the users.


Mark...

 

[Tapage]

thanks Mark .. I indeed have the pencil beam concept as the light with long reach target that should be off when an incoming driver is noted .. as difference of Driving light ( again IMOH ) but all in all it's about what you need ..

I don't do fast driving so a good low beam light ( yeap I was talking about low beams ) it's what I'm looking for actually I like my actual light patterns just wan't 'em more white ( like true 4300K ) and less consumption ..

I already measure my amp draw with my 6 bosh 100/90 H4 bulbs and it's like 60 something amps ..

 

[Mark W]

Maybe one of the hi beam low beam HID conversions for your headlights would be the way to go. They have those in 4300 Kelvin which is pretty much daylight is opposed to the harsh blue like that the higher Kelvin ratings have.

Lower power consumption, brighter light, better coverage and very well defined cut off.


Mark...

 

[Tapage]

very well defined cut off. ..

this it's the part that keep me from doing it .. since I'm not sure if I just throw some HID on my Warn or Bosh lamps will keep it ..

 

[Mark W]

if you're going to dump a lot of light on the road in front of you and you don't want to be blinding people coming toward you... In other words if you want to be able to leave it on all the time... it almost has to be the equivalent of a low beam with a tight cut off to keep the focused light below the eyes of oncoming traffic.

Add some LED floods for lighting up the short and midrange distances when there's no around you, and some halogen or HID pencil beans for punching through into the long range when you're out on the dark highway, and you are all set.


Mark...

 

[Tapage]

In other words if you want to be able to leave it on all the time... it almost has to be the equivalent of a low beam with a tight cut off to keep the focused light below the eyes of oncoming traffic.

yap .. that's exactly what I'm saying / looking for .. best recipe to accomplish that without adding more lights to my 80 ..