Clicking in the front end

[LostAfrican]

My 01 FSM says adjusting but should be 43 ft lbf initially and then 38-57 in lbf

Then you do the fish scale thing. 9.5 to 15 lbf

And finally the lock washer to 47 ft lbf.

Am I looking at the right stuff? It's p. SA 15 in my book.

What size are those adjusting and lock nuts?

 

[2001LC]

TM I respectfully disagree, after researching the issue on mud, at Toyota dealer with shop foreman & the most senior Lexus mechanic in the state of Colorado. We all agreed Toyota tends to use very light torque setting. Looking at a 4 runner FSM (of pre-sealed wheel bearings) it was set at 18 ft-lb IIRC. We felt it safe to use higher torque on our series 100. The light FSM torque of our FSM will, in many cases, allow the claw washer to chatter. SEE: Wheel Bearing; FSM Torque to Light or just Right.

Most shop don't even torque the adjustor nut they just use old school (by feel). I'm currently testing this theory and will see on next schedule bearing re-packing, the condition of my bearings & claw washer.

My 01 FSM says adjusting but should be 43 ft lbf initially and then 38-57 in lbf

Then you do the fish scale thing. 9.5 to 15 lbf

And finally the lock washer to 47 ft lbf.

Am I looking at the right stuff? It's p. SA 15 in my book.

What size are those adjusting and lock nuts?

Look again it says inch not foot lb.

You'll not get 9.5 to 15 lbf on fish scale at 38-57 in. lbf., try it and you'll see.

Using the light torque on final adjust nut setting and not checking & setting gap of snap ring can cause issues even on our tanks IMO.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I don't know about "many cases" of the star washer chattering, I've never heard of one. Don't get into the bad habit of taking a one off issue and saying it's a universal. Overtightening the bearings WILL lead to them burning and possibly seizing on the spindle, which can be a catastrophic failure on the highway. That one I can definitely point to many cases of.

 

[LostAfrican]

Guys thanks for catching me up! Seems like there's a lot of history here.

Yeah I noticed that it was in lbf but thats still a ways away from 12 ftlbf....but after reading the threads I get it now, thats considerably tighter.

I am at the T dealer now...the guy that repacked my wheel bearings will take a look, he thinks that its quite possible that the adjustment nuts are too loose. I'll report back.

 

[2001LC]

I don't know about "many cases" of the star washer chattering, I've never heard of one. Don't get into the bad habit of taking a one off issue and saying it's a universal. Overtightening the bearings WILL lead to them burning and possibly seizing on the spindle, which can be a catastrophic failure on the highway. That one I can definitely point to many cases of.

I agree over tightening is a bad thing that may cause over heating of bearing.

It was the Lexus mechanic that told me in "many cases". He'd replaced claw washer with scoring & torque all using old school method which is more than FSM rec. He'd not need to replace claw washer again or have any issues on return schedule maintenance provided he used the higher torque.

In my cases I did find this true also. I have 20K miles on my wheel bearings since last packing with 12 ft-lb on adjusting nut. I did replace CLAW washer on one side and emery-clothed & flipped other side. I did many test with fish scale & IR heat gun, before settling on 12 ft-lb. I assure you I would not recommend anything so critical without doing a lot of homework & testing first. I'd also note: its important to be aware that adjusting nut does not turn when torquing lock nut, which provided lock washer is replace it should not.

Kurt (cruiseoutfit) recently asked: if thrust washer (You stated: "star washer", I assume you both mean CLAW WASHER) should be in a bearing kit, and the consensus was yes. I believe the factory wheel bearings & claw washer should rarely need replacing in a STOCK 100 if properly maintained. The snap ring on other hand many need replacing more often. Kurt is including claw washer in his new wheel bearing kits, and mud members stated they'd be ordering. Why are these bearings even needing replacing, could the FSM be wrong?

The below is my claw washer, which was set at FSM, after some chatter from prior PO packing job. The other side didn't have scoring from PO and was subsequently set to FSM also. After 30K more miles they both had scoring and this one needed replacing.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=833492&d=1385171168

 

[Trunk Monkey]

And why does a "modified front end" or larger tires mandate even higher torque??

 

[2001LC]

Some mud member herein have stated and I would agree. lift/over size tires etc.. often require spacer which tends too push center of balance outward, creates additional pressure on bearing. Stock suspension/front end/tires are well balance on inner and outer bearings.

Hope my that made sense I'm getting in a hurry to type.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

So you're talking about only those who are using a wheel spacer, not every front end mod or larger than stock tire. I don't know about it requiring a spacer often, only in certain circumstances.

 

[LostAfrican]

Update for my 01. In my case it's not the CVs and it's not the wheel bearings. (Double relief there). It IS the brake pads. I did check them my self and there was some play but I wasn't convinced that it would translate to the click based on rotation.

They are non Toyota and are a bit shorter in height (not pad depth) than the OEMs. The shims are not as thick as toyota's either so the pads can rattle around in the caliper. PO did a brake job not long ago so the pads have plenty of material left so I opted to wait to go all OEM.

The tech told me that T sells the pads and shims separately and they typically use the shims again and again which I thought was interesting. The shims also consist of two pieces.

So lesson learned; check for non OEM parts when things are suspicious.

I'm glad it's nothing more serious at this point. Hope this helps some of you. Also, the Toyota tech Jared was really great and I enjoyed the trip into the massive Camelback T shop. It makes a difference when you get to go see and touch instead of just hearing it through the service agent.

 

[2001LC]

Yeah if im not mistaken its somwthing to do with the brakes.
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I bet it is the the brake pad shims and/or retainer springs. ***.

If no play or sound from CV & brakes look good. Then I'd pull off the grease cap too check the snap ring gap. Make sure you pull the axle out tight. Note: IMHO FSM spec for wheel bearing adjuster nut torque is too light, needs to be around 12 ft-lb for stock set-up even higher torque for modified front end with oversize tires.

Brakes were one of first thoughts, to check.

So you're talking about only those who are using a wheel spacer, not every front end mod or larger than stock tire. I don't know about it requiring a spacer often, only in certain circumstances.

Yes & no:

Yes if modification changes angle of axle vs centering of wheel in relation too bearing (the stance or offset) Which if changed may require higher torque to prolong bearing life. Some like 24 ft-lbf when stance changed. The wheel offset is important if concerned with tire tread wear and bearing life.

No, in that; FSM recommendation for stock is 38-57 in.-lbf which you can see is much less than I use for stock. IMHO the FSM is wrong for any broken in wheel bearing assemble. Now with All NEW wheel bearing components (spindle/races/bearings/claw washer) FSM torque many work well until bearing has seated, say maybe ~5K miles to seat/break-in.

I still have 10K before next packing, and will report back then in the the link I provided above. But I have no doubt that setting adjusting nut at the FSM torque spec causes early failure. IMHO it is worth repeating; the GAP MUST be checked. Many ignore this and if setting to FSM torque the chatter will cause the gap to increase. This sets up for a failure, it's a matter of how long one plans on driving our tanks and overall maintenance cost.

Update for my 01. In my case it's not the CVs and it's not the wheel bearings. (Double relief there). It IS the brake pads. I did check them my self and there was some play but I wasn't convinced that it would translate to the click based on rotation.
*******

Glad was not any big deal and sorry for stealing thread. TM and I kind of got off and this torque issue, which was only a side note of my doing.