Charging System Problems 97 LX450 (2 Viewers)

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Joined
Sep 10, 2024
Threads
2
Messages
20
Location
Lexington, VA
Good evening,

This is my first post on Ih8mud, please excuse me if this is the wrong location. First off hello Ih8mud community, I am very excited to be the new owner of a 1997 Champaigne Pearl LX450 150k miles.

I have been having a charging system issue for the past couple of weeks and after replacing the alternator for a second time I am stumped so need help. There is a big backstory so buckle up.

I purchased this LX450 in June of this year. Drove it back to GA from NY, no issues. Had it in GA for about a week, decided to change the oil before driving back up to Virginia where the car would sit for 6 weeks while I was at OCS (Military Training). Right after changing the oil and starting the car up, I noticed the voltage jumping up and the battery light would flicker on and off. Hooked up my multimeter and the voltage was ranging between 14.6 and 16.5v. (The truck has a new battery, installed by the PO). I first thought that I messed a ground up or something when changing the oil because it was my first time on this vehicle, but I didn't see anything loose in the immediate area. I talked to my former coworker who has been a mechanic for over 30 years and he told me that it is probably just the voltage regulator, and I likely didn't mess up anything doing the oil change. I was hesitant to take his word for it because everything was fine before the oil change, but I decided to replace the alternator. Due to the fact I had to check into OCS in 3 days and drive from GA to VA, I had no choice but to get a NAPA Reman alternator. I installed it that night and vehicle fired up, charging at 13.2v. Drove it up to VA and it was fine, when I passed OCS and drove home it was fine.

About 2 weeks later around August 12th, drove it back up to VA for school. Didn't notice anything abnormal.

3 weeks ago, I went to start it up and noticed it was charging at only about 12.2-12.4. However, never saw the battery light come on. Found a loose terminal and tightened it, and back to normal about 13.2v.

Last week I started it up and got ready to drive about an hour north and its only charging at 12.2v. I said screw it and kept driving (it was night with the lights and radio on) still no battery light on. As I kept driving I watched the voltage start creeping down slowly losing 0.1v about every 10-15 seconds. I decided to pull off to a truck stop because it got down to 11.5v. (Still no battery light on). I watched it go down to 10.9v, battery light finally came on, RPMs wouldn't effect the charging at all, finally decided to turn the car off and leave it for the night. (Had my GF pick me up) Came back the next morning drove it back to school about 15 mins on the highway, it was still losing volts but much slower because I had all the accessories off. Got it back to school with about 9v left. I concluded based on what I read on this forum that it was the NAPA Reman alternator already going out. Did a voltage drop test with my multimeter and found no issues so I concluded the NAPA reman had failed.

Yesterday I installed a Reman Denso OEM alternator from Toyota parts deal, a new fuse able link and had a friend charge the battery with jumper cables. When I started it up, I was getting 13.6 volts from the battery using a multimeter, I thought everything was fixed, however I started to watch the voltage creep down as the truck was idling. It was again losing 0.1v every 10 seconds or so and it would then level off around 12.6-12.9v with no accessories on. I decided that it was probably good to drive, and I am now thinking maybe the battery had gone bad. Drove it to autozone at night with the lights on monitoring the voltage from my scan gauge and it was showing 12.2v (no battery light on). AutoZone tester said the battery is good but needs recharge, it also said the alternator failed for voltage regulation. I know this can't be true because it's a brand-new Denso Reman and I hear those are good. Drove it back to school and now I'm here writing this up. Any ideas?

*** Important Notes
The engine was replaced sometime in 2020 by the PO with a similar mileage motor from a 97 Toyota LC.
The PO also has replaced the Lexus factory radio with what looks like a factory radio from a 80 series LC. I have a feeling this was improperly installed because it has a loud popping noise suggesting its getting too much power when I put the key in ignition?? Note: I have kept the radio off recently because I was suspecting that it was drawing too many amps, however I haven't noticed any abnormal voltage drop with the radio on or off.

I'm not a master mechanic, only 22 years old and I haven't grown up fixing cars, still learning this stuff, but I should be able to understand anything you guys throw at me.

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Battery been tested?
 
Since your engine was replaced, check your three engine bay grounds: EA, EB, EC.

EC is the most important as it grounds the engine block. If I remember correctly, it connects to the firewall. The alternator is grounded through its case, which is grounded to the engine block.

1727920573813.png
 
Yes, got it tested at autozone today, they said it was good but needs recharge. It sits around 12.2v and hasn't lost charge while sitting.
A fully charged battery should read 12.7 volts or higher. A battery with a resting voltage of 12.4 volts is considered 75% charged, while a battery with a resting voltage of 12.2 volts is considered 50% charged. I would fully charge the battery then check the terminals with the truck running and a multimeter.
 
3 weeks ago, I went to start it up and noticed it was charging at only about 12.2-12.4. However, never saw the battery light come on. Found a loose terminal and tightened it, and back to normal about 13.2v.
This statement jumped out to me.
A properly operating charging/battery system should read 14.4 VDC across the battery terminals after startup.
Under normal circumstances, alternator charging voltage will slowly drop as the state of charge of the battery increases, but 13.2 VDC is low regardless of the state of charge.
A fully charged wet cell battery should read 12.6 VDC at rest. 12.2 VDC is 50% depleted.

Either you have a faulty alternator, a poor connection, or a failing cell in the battery that's dragging down system voltage.
 
Since your engine was replaced, check your three engine bay grounds: EA, EB, EC.

EC is the most important as it grounds the engine block. If I remember correctly, it connects to the firewall. The alternator is grounded through its case, which is grounded to the engine block.
I will check the grounds this evening. I am starting to agree with the others that the battery may be an issue too. I will not be able to get a new battery until next week. I'll send an update tonight. Thank you to all.
 
This statement jumped out to me.
A properly operating charging/battery system should read 14.4 VDC across the battery terminals after startup.
Under normal circumstances, alternator charging voltage will slowly drop as the state of charge of the battery increases, but 13.2 VDC is low regardless of the state of charge.
A fully charged wet cell battery should read 12.6 VDC at rest. 12.2 VDC is 50% depleted.

Either you have a faulty alternator, a poor connection, or a failing cell in the battery that's dragging down system voltage.
I agree, I thought 13.2 was low too. I had gotten used to getting those numbers from the NAPA alternator and pretty much ignored it at the time. I was always under the impression that the alternator would charge the battery back up to 12.6 if working properly. Is this true?

As of right now with the A/C on and headlights on, the battery sits at 12.2 at idle. This is a new Denso reman alternator though, so I am not going to be quick to say its faulty. I am going to double check the grounds this evening and get back to everyone. Starting to think its the battery but I don't understand why it would be bad if its starting the car and holding its charge at 12.2V with everything off.

I know 12.2V is low but to my understanding once the car starts it should recharge, correct? I am at a military school and have to park a good distance away from my barracks room and don't have a battery charger or anything besides jumper cables. This is why I haven't been able to get good access to anything to properly charge the battery and see if it holds 12.6. I tried AutoZone last night, but their tester said it was good and just needed recharge. Don't know if that's accurate or not.
 
If you're on a military installation that has an auto hobby shop, take it there. There will be someone there who can help you.
 
As of right now with the A/C on and headlights on, the battery sits at 12.2 at idle.
Voltage should not be that low. Either the alternator is not charging or the battery is faulty or your voltmeter is not calibrated.
This is a new Denso reman alternator though, so I am not going to be quick to say its faulty. I am going to double check the grounds this evening and get back to everyone. Starting to think its the battery but I don't understand why it would be bad if its starting the car and holding its charge at 12.2V with everything off.
Once again, 12.2 is 50% depleted. Either the alternator is not charging the battery or the battery is not holding a charge. The alternator is grounded through the case/mounting bracket. The battery negative terminal should have a good connection to the engine block.

Another thing to consider, right after shutting down the engine (with a properly operating charging system and good battery) the battery should have a temporary surface charge that should read 13+ volts. This will slowly discharge over an hour or so as the surface charge depletes and the battery returns to a resting state.
Either the alternator is not charging or the battery is faulty.
 
Good morning all,

I walked out to the truck this morning in between classes to test the grounds per instructions, the main grounds EA and EB looked good, I couldn't get back to the EC ground because I didn't feel like digging around in my uniform it must be below the brake booster. However, I found a ground connector right above the mount for the DS shock absorber was covered in debris and wet from water intrusion near the wheel well. It was the ground wire that connects from below the charcoal canister on the frame to the mount where the ignition wires go to some sort of connector bolted to the shock mount. I cleaned up the connection just with a rag because its all I had, tested the battery before starting the car it was at 12.2 still.

Started the car and had 14.2V immediately after starting.

Unfortunately, as the truck idled down and warmed up the voltage dropped to 13.5V, no load. I then went inside the car and and turned on the headlights, A/C etc and the voltage dropped down to 12.9V at idle. This is definitely not normal right?

The good news is the battery is now fully charged at 12.6V and it is holding the charge with the car off. It tested between 12.5-12.6V right before I had to go back to class.

I am now even more stumped. I guess what I will do is go ahead and replace the battery just in case and do a more thorough cleaning of the ground connector using actual electronics cleaner and maybe apply some electric grease. I will be going to the field this weekend and stuck at school until next weekend, so I won't be able to buy the battery or cleaner until then. I will keep you all posted. Thank you again to all that are assisting.
 
Don't spend the money on a new battery until you are certain it needs to be replaced. Look at the cells and make sure they don't need more electrolyte. Even "maintenance free" batteries can be topped up.

If your problem is simply bad grounds, or even a failing alternator, replacing the battery is a waste of money.
 
In my experience, bad grounds are a major cause of charging issues.

If your battery lost a cell, it would be closer to 10.5V. 2.1V/Cell for a fully charged lead acid battery. 2.1V * 6 Cells = 12.6V total. I bet your battery is good.

Yes, there is a ground that attaches to the front shock tower. It is part of a bundle of ground wires that I believe connects to the relay box right there.

Here is a picture of the ground on the back of the engine. (Credit: George)
1727978490171.png
 
In my experience, bad grounds are a major cause of charging issues.

If your battery lost a cell, it would be closer to 10.5V. 2.1V/Cell for a fully charged lead acid battery. 2.1V * 6 Cells = 12.6V total. I bet your battery is good.

Yes, there is a ground that attaches to the front shock tower. It is part of a bundle of ground wires that I believe connects to the relay box right there.

Here is a picture of the ground on the back of the engine. (Credit: George)
View attachment 3740988
Very interesting, I just took a look at a picture i had of my engine bay and there is no ground wire connected there. I would have to do some looking around to see if it got tucked away whenever they put in the engine. I wonder how the truck would be able to even start then. I will send a update when I get a chance to go to my vehicle. Where does this ground wire originate from so I can trace it?
 
Very interesting, I just took a look at a picture i had of my engine bay and there is no ground wire connected there. I would have to do some looking around to see if it got tucked away whenever they put in the engine. I wonder how the truck would be able to even start then. I will send a update when I get a chance to go to my vehicle. Where does this ground wire originate from so I can trace it?

This post shows both attached ends with this picture.
1728326366122.png
 
Good Evening,

I went out there today and I am in fact missing the ground wire there.
IMG_8876.jpeg

I tried several different methods to test to see if this is why I am getting low voltage utilizing jumper cables.
IMG_8875.jpeg

I also attached one jumper to the bolt where the ground wire would have been and one to the engine.

No load idle 13.3V
Under load idle 12.4V
2k RPM under load 13.3V
Nothing changed when I ran the jumper cables as ground. This still doesn't look normal to me. Is this a accurate way to test? Anything else I can do to test the grounds? Should I go ahead and order some wire to install that missing ground?
Thank you to all. I will additionally take a look at the one by the oil filter the gentlemen above was talking about hopefully tomorrow.

IMG_8873.jpeg


IMG_8872.jpeg


IMG_8870.jpeg
 
I see you connected Battery Neg to the Firewall, ...I am not sure why.. but did you actually ground the engine to chassis ground?

Not that it matters, the OEM ground wire connects to the left bolt, not the right bolt on that harness bracket.

Are you just using the scangauge to get your voltages?

Use a voltmeter and directly measure voltage across the battery terminals, and the hot stud of the alternator to chassis ground or battery negative.

Also, use the same voltmeter to measure resistance between the alternator case and chassis. You want close to 0 Ohms.
 
I see you connected Battery Neg to the Firewall, ...I am not sure why.. but did you actually ground the engine to chassis ground?

Not that it matters, the OEM ground wire connects to the left bolt, not the right bolt on that harness bracket.

Are you just using the scangauge to get your voltages?

Use a voltmeter and directly measure voltage across the battery terminals, and the hot stud of the alternator to chassis ground or battery negative.

Also, use the same voltmeter to measure resistance between the alternator case and chassis. You want close to 0 Ohms.
Yea the picture didn't upload where I attached the cable to the bolt from the spot where the ground was missing. Is that the improper way to test that? I was under the impression that all i had to do was attach the jumper cable to the bolt where the engine to chassis ground would have been, but I could totally be wrong because I don't have any idea what I'm doing lol. I have a multimeter that I have been using too not just the scanguage. One thing I haven't done is measured the resistance between the alternator and chassis, I will get to that tomorrow.
 
Yes, you can use jumper cables but they can be finicky getting a good bite on small bolts. This is why reading resistances on a voltmeter is important.
 

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