can't get freon in A/C comp. '85 22r carb

[John McVicker]

can't get freon in A/C comp. '85 22r carb Now: A/C compressor rebuild

Put a new schrader valve in the low port side to solve the problem of escaping freon which I described in an earlier post. But I now have a new A/C issue on my '85 Toy PU with 22r carb.

After a retrofit from r12 to r134 I can only get about 1/2 of a can of 134 into the compressor.

After this amount the high side gauge reads about 100 lbs. & it won't take anymore. AndI don't know why. Any thoughts on what the problem might be ?

I think I've done all the right things :

1) Installed the new ports from the retrofit kit.
2) Put in all new O rings, in the ports, hoses, etc.
3) Flushed out the system.
4) Installed a new dryer.
5) Vacuumed down to 29 for 45 minuets.

There is a leak because the vacuum does bleed off. But I am just trying to put a can of freon in and then another can w/leak testing dye to help find the leak. But I can't get enough in to do the leak test. Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks, John

 

[John McVicker]

A/C compressor rebuild

Well, after returning from the A/C shop, it appears that my solution is to replace the condenser AND the compressor.

The condenser will be no problem. My decision is to either buy a new/costly compressor or to rebuild it myself. I will call Cdan tomorrow, but I believe there is a Toyota rebuild kit that replaces seals & gaskets.

I am considering doing this myself. The process is in my FSM for my 60 & I would think they are similar enough to use this as a reference. Anyone able to share their experience as to wheather this is a good idea. Or would you instead suggest buying a new compressor ? The FSM makes it appear , while not simple, at least pretty straightforward.

Thanks, John

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

I don't have any experience in compressor rebuilding, but I do have an 86 truck and and 89 4Runner FSM. And I'll give you a hand if you'd like I'd be interested in the prices of the compressor and the rebuild kit too.

 

[John McVicker]

I don't have any experience in compressor rebuilding, but I do have an 86 truck and and 89 4Runner FSM. And I'll give you a hand if you'd like I'd be interested in the prices of the compressor and the rebuild kit too.

Jerod, Thanks for your interest. I will be calling Cdan tomorrow for prices and will post back.

Thanks, John

 

[WristPin]

i have not 'rebuilt' any compressors. but i have torn em apart to see how they tick.

i think you will do fine. it appears you know quite a bit about what those six sided metal thingys are on the other end of your wrench.

from what i have learned about compressers, specifically subaru ones, ( i assume toyota uses the same brand as a sub) is that the principle is basic.

there are a few springs and taper shaped valves that can be lost. so keep track of those. there were these nylon orings that were on the main rotaiting cylinder that i assume would be difficult to get back together with out tearing.

there are these 'fins' that go on the cylinder. one side is sqaure one side is beveled. the beveled side goes out and turns against the body of the compressor.

i think an exploded view will be your best friend. there were some metal plates on the top that looked almost symetrical, but were not. so re assembly there must be detailed. and with those plates i remember them having brackes that held em down that i broke on purpose, cause i wasnt reassembling.

 

[WristPin]

oh. and there are 5 ore so different viscositys of PAG oil. you need to get the right one. it will probly list it in the manual. but i have seen one brand of oil list all the manufactuer on the label of wich the oil is desinged for

 

[John McVicker]

Thanks for the info Wristy. Your post doesn't make it sound any eaiser but I believe I will try to rebuild it myself. I missed Cdan's return call yesterday so still don't know the $$ difference between a new compressor & the kit. Will post when I find out.

Regarding the PAG oils, I am going 134 that I can buy at Walmart. Their cans say it has the proper amount of oil in each can. I plan to shoot that stuff straight in, thinking that will be all the oil I will need. Do you agree ??

Thanks for you thoughts, John

 

[WristPin]

if you rebuild it, you need to use the oil to lube all the guts.
it will help to get every thing back together

you need to determine how many ounces of oil the system is desinged to take.
factor in how much you used during disasembly.

once you are done rebuilding, you need to fill up the compressor. you want to get as much as you can in there.

again, keeping track of how much you use.

by turning the pulley, you can get more in there.

then once its all hooked up, you can add the rest of the oil and freon.

since this compressor is an internally oiled unit, it requires more effort to get oil in there as described above.

if it was an externally oileld unit, you would remove a filler plug on the compressor on then fill it with oil and be done.

so its probly a good idea to get more than one bottle of oil

and im sure cruiser dan can get you the amout of oil in onces spec

 

[John McVicker]

Wristy, I was thinking I might have to do what you describe. That procedure is in my 60 FSM. Now my concern is will this put too much oil in there ? ie, all the oil I can get inside my compressor as you describe AND then the oil that is already in the 134 can. That procedure in my 60 FSM was written prior to 134 & now the 134 with oil already in.

I have been messing with this for about 2 weeks, when I was buying parts from Cdan (dryer etc) I was asking his thoughts. He readily admits that he takes his A/C stuff to a pro & doesn't offer much insight or advice on A/C problems.

I will however ask him the oil fill quanity. I am however, past the stage of measuring how much oil I have removed. Before I knew I had to open up my compressor I just dumped all the existing oil w/o measuring.

As you can see, except for minor stuff this is my 1st stab @ A/C work. But with 3 running Crusiers & my Toy pu, all with A/C, I need to learn.

I can see the benefit of adding oil to a fresh rebuild but you don't think a double whammy will put too much oil in ?

Thanks, John

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Isn't there 134 available without the oil in it?....

 

[John McVicker]

134/oil mix or PAG oil then straight 134

Jerod, Yes there is...but why use it...unless the consenses is the can of oil/freon mix will not get oil to the working parts quickly enough.

And I don't know that answer, my guess is the oil would get into the system quick enough. Don't really know. But I am also pretty sure that too much oil is bad. So, anyone got thoughts on which way to go ?

1) Shoot the freon/oil mix cans in. (of which I have aprox. $50 worth waiting in my shop)
2) Put a measured amount of PAG in & go buy straight 134

Getting complicated. John

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Is there an oil sight glass on the comp? I would think that if you used enough oil to put it together (what parts need to be oiled on assembly...) then put in the cans with the oil it should be good.

 

[John McVicker]

Yeah Jerod, That's also what I am thinking. Waiting to hear back now from Cdan. Be a week b-4 I get the parts, so still time to research.

Thinking about going to PMC swap meet. Hope to have it completed by then. Then I can drive my 22r instead of my 2f $$$$$.

Thanks again, John

 

[John McVicker]

Prices from Cdan

1) $305 Cdan price for reman. A/C compressor '85 Toy pu 22r
2) $ 48 Cdan price for 'seal/gasket kit' for the A/C compressor
3) $114 Cdan price for A/C condenser

I went with the condenser & the seal kit, hoping I have no holes in my compressor body. The A/C shop felt the odds were in my favor & more often than not, the leaks occur on the seals at the end of the compressor.

Probally take a week or more to get the parts. I will let you know how the rebuild goes. FSM makes it appear straightforward. 10 steps to take it apart & 10 to put back together. If this works out, others with a non-working compressor might want to consider this procedure. We'll see.

Thanks John

 

[WristPin]

you need a oil injection "syringe" to install the oil, once the system is pressurized.


bacically its like a piston and a cylinder. you fill it up, has a screw handle on one end, and a hose with a fitting on the other.


you could use that method or disconnect a line, at the evaporator and hope it all goes in.

if you rebuild the compressor you MUST put oil in it no matter what.


my suggestion is to use the pre oiled stuff based on what you already have put in the compressor. then calculate what amount of oil is in the can, and then once that amout is reached, swap to a regular can.

you know whats ironic? im sitting here typing this in my home, while its 98° in here. i have no AC

and i have a SR5 4Runner that has R12 that works great, but I have the belt off cause the tensioner bearing is bad.

but at least i have the top off.

its boilin hot in here i just got done discussing AC

 

[John McVicker]

Good info wristy, thanks. Are you saying I need to put oil in the compressor AND also the evaporater/dryer?

Just so I can be clear, is this your recommendation :

1) Rebuild the compressor
2) put a measured amount of PAG oil into the compressor
3) Put the compressor back on the truck, hook up hoses
4) Vacuum the system

step 5 is where I am unclear
5) Put in straight 134...or...put in 134/oil mix

You sound pretty certain that if I skip step #2 and go instead to 134/oil mix I will damage the compressor. Am I right ??

B-4 all is said & done, I will have a rebuilt compressor, new mag. clutch, new condenser & new dryer. All in all I am going to have a lot of money in this, I just don't want to make a preventable mistake & be counter productive.

It was hot here today too. Don't know how high it got, but it was supposed to get to 104. I need A/C in my 22r.

Appreciate your input. John McVicker


Thanks, John

 

[WristPin]

Good info wristy, thanks. Are you saying I need to put oil in the compressor AND also the evaporater/dryer?

Just so I can be clear, is this your recommendation :

1) Rebuild the compressor yep
2) put a measured amount of PAG oil into the compressor exactly
3) Put the compressor back on the truck, hook up hoses right
4) Vacuum the system you got it.

step 5 is where I am unclear
5) Put in straight 134...or...put in 134/oil mix both. i'll explain below

You sound pretty certain that if I skip step #2 and go instead to 134/oil mix I will damage the compressor. Am I right ?? absolutley. that compressor has to have oil in it. or it will burn up in an instant.

B-4 all is said & done, I will have a rebuilt compressor, new mag. clutch, new condenser & new dryer. All in all I am going to have a lot of money in this, I just don't want to make a preventable mistake & be counter productive.

It was hot here today too. Don't know how high it got, but it was supposed to get to 104. I need A/C in my 22r.

Appreciate your input. John McVicker


Thanks, John

i dont know the exact amount of oil you need.

but for clarity lets say you need to use six ounces.

for example:

you rebuilt your compressor and kept track of all the oil you used to lube up the parts. to assemble and lube every thing you used 0.5 oz of oil.

then after reassembly, of the compressor before putting any lines in, you used 1.5 oz to fill the compressor.


you now have 2/3 remaining to fill.

you hooked up the hoses to the compressor.

but to put more oil in, you disconnected the outlet of the evaporator ( return) side, and since the connection is higher up than the compressor, you filled that hose up with two ounces.
and you used a dab of oil on every o ring thus far to prevent leaks.


without filling it up too much, as you dont want to spill as you reconnected it, you now have 1/3 left to fill, after you pull a vacuum



****************************************
you have two bottles of R134.

one is 16oz of straight R134.
the other holds a total of 16oz. but half consits of oil, half consists of freon.

you know that if you add the whole bottle of mixed, you will have 6 times more oil than what you want.

so you only put in 4oz of the mix.

now you have a little bit of freon in there and all the oil.

hopefully the bottle or hose you have has a valve on it. so you can remove it and go on to filling with the new strait bottle of r134a.
*****************************************************

now the section between the *'s can be avoided. which would be easier.
how?
if you can get all the required oil in there inside the hose. but i dont think its possible.

just keep track of the amount of oil.


a few notes.

there is a valuable tool you can get from Snap-On to get the oil in there.
I have used abd seen other types and variances with this tool, but i like using the Snap On one the best.

to determine the precise amount of freon, or freon oil mix you are inserting, get a scale.

i bet you could find a small cheap scale that the crack heads for "tobacco" use at a local convienence store. (unfortunatly i see far too many stores selling them round here)


the whole idea of getting all or as much as oil as you can in there before you put the freon in, is so that there is no chance in hell the compressor will burn up.

with the oil / freon can, the oil will sink to the bottom. so obtaining the right amount out of the will be tricky.
i suggest the scale for a cheap method to more accuratley measure this. you would turn the can on its side, on the scale, contrary to what it says on the can

and i HIGHLY suggest the oil injector. this would eliminate the scale and mix can.

well i hope this is easy to understand.
i am a mechanic, not an author, so please ask any thing if i have made somthing unclear.

 

[John McVicker]

Excellent write up and crystal clear. It is certain you are indeed a mechanic. I will try to follow you advice to the letter. A question or maybe two. Snap on guy was in town Tue., I will run him down nxt week.

Finally...a legitimate reason to find the Snap On truck. I know the wife won't believe me.

1) What you are calling the 'evaporator' & I am calling the 'dryer' are in fact the same thing. Beer can looking thingy.

2) The hoses to my evaporator are actually metal lines. How about I just pour oil directly into the 'beer can',(in addition to the compressor, of course) then hook up the lines.

3) If # 2 is not a good option, one side of my evaporator says 'in', you say to put oil in the return side. I would think that to be the opposite line. In other words not the one that says 'in'.

It would be far eaiser to do step # 2 and not # 3.

Again, a very helpful write up. I would be willing to bet others have also learned from your writtings.

Thanks, John

 

[fjwagon]

I took A/C compressor out my 86 4x4 and had it rebuilt for 150.00 which I thought was a fair price. And it also came with a 1 year warranty. Anyhow, I wish I knew you could get a kit to rebuild the compressor before hand. I also bought an Oring kit and replaced most Orings while replacing the compressor and dryer. Anyhow, while working on the A/C system I noticed a "RPM" adjustment located under the glove box. I think they call it a A/C amp. How does adjustment work and when do you decide if it needs it? Sorry for the high jack.

 

[fjwagon]

bump, hoping some one has an answer