Can an insurance OBDII telemetry device (Allstate Drivewise) damage my UZJ100?

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Mar 17, 2015
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Hi. I purchased a 'new to me' 1999 UZJ100 a few months ago and finally decided to break down and post. I've been working through the various 'quirks' with IH8MUD as my go-to resource... thanks!

In an effort to be frugal, I am considering signing up for ALLSTATE DRIVEWISE*. My agent suggested it as a way to save ~10% per vehicle. I'm not a fan of this type of monitoring in general, but decided to try it. Then I started hearing horror stories about damage caused by the device, specifically because 'they' say the OBDII port is meant for periodic use, not full time powering of a device which reports results via built-in cell.

I had my daughter's car in a local shop specializing in electrical issues a few days ago and asked them about it. Initially, they didn't think it would be a problem, but suggested I bring the rig by after it's installed so they can run some diagnostics on it. My concern is obvious that saving $20-30 monthly doesn't begin to cover the cost of being stranded or troubleshooting/fixing an issue.

I should receive the hardware in the next 5-7 days according to my agent and will post updates as I find out more.

Any suggestions or insights are appreciated!

* Drivewise url: https://www.allstate.com/drive-wise.aspx
 
I cannot comment directly on the Allstate ODBII dongle that tracks your driving habits, but I have an ODBII dongle that bluetooths to my phone to read fault codes and basically anything else I want performance wise. It stays plugged in at all times to my 99 LC. I randomly pull up the "Torque" app if I want to see any sort of engine dynamic and have never had it cause any sort of vehicle issue. I have used one of these in a few of my past cars from a Caddy CTSV to my M3. I have never had an issue.
 
power is power so I would not be to concerned but the power port is always on (lights are on) so it could drain the battery.
If it would cause damage I would not think they would use it for "spying" on you.
I also use this obd2 Bluetooth on different cars and just leave it in all the time without problem:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM-Bluetoo...Scanner-diagnostic-tool-scanner-/121650586341

OBDII port.webp
 
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Ok before I even begin, I couldn't be read that in the deep voice like the commercial

"I am considering signing up for *deep voice* ALLSTATE DRIVEWISE"

Here's a couple reasons I did not take this offer:

1) It's only $20-ish/month.
2) None of the companies that offer this are very forthcoming (from what I've seen) with what they plan to do with the data.
3) Nothing is "free." Not only is nothing free, they are willing to cut a check based on your driving. I would think they'd want to make up for that revenue somehow. The influx of "big data" is a great way to cover for selling your data or exploiting it.
4) I live in DC. The traffic sucks. The last thing I need is s device reporting my "hard and extreme braking" while trying to deal with I-95 (the east coast version of the I-5).
5) I travel a lot. After work, late at night. Why should this impact my insurance? I've been doing it for years.

I could see some issues with damage over time as the cell feature of the device is a much more active behavior compared to passive collection by monitoring devices for SGII/DC.

Now, I'm not too concerned with "big brother" (being the government) but I have no trust in corporations and my data. What I am concerned with is this becoming a device monitoring my every move for insurance purposes.

That's my 2 cents....

Oh, If you're REALLY security conscious, Charlie Miller has done some great work (http://www.dailytech.com/Charlie+Miller+Releases+Open+Source+Car+Sabotage+Toolkit/article33308.htm) :)
 
Please keep this to the OP's original question and tech.

From what I know of those types of devices from the insurance companies, they aren't powered, they only receive info from the ECU via the OBD port. There is no input going IN to the port.
 
Please keep this to the OP's original question and tech.

From what I know of those types of devices from the insurance companies, they aren't powered, they only receive info from the ECU via the OBD port. There is no input going IN to the port.

If there is no power, then how is it reporting the information?

Also, the damage that can be done goes far past an isolated incident with the local vehicle. Any connection to a "cloud" service such as snapshot or drivewise puts the driver and vehicle at risk. http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/21/2-million-progressive-snapshot-customers-may-be-at-risk-for-car/
 
Not trying to nitpick at all. While it's not pushing information into the port, it is pulling it out and wirelessly transmitting it. If it was a dumb device I would agree with you that the power draw is minimal. However it isn't and I believe that might be the issue the OP is asking for where the OBD port is constantly being used to transmit data.


Further for the OP from the website:

Does this device drain my battery?


The device has a sleep mode that reduces the draw on the battery to a very small amount — comparable to the voltage used by your car's clock. The effect on battery power is negligible. However, Allstate would suggest that you follow your vehicle manufacturer's recommendations regarding long-term storage. Manufacturers generally recommend starting the engine and driving a few miles every few months.

What is the Drivewise device and how does it work?

This device connects to your vehicle's computer via the onboard diagnostics port — which is located under the dashboard on most cars.

It provides data to us via a secure wireless transmission. We then share the data we receive with you on the Drivewise customer website. You will see your driving results for any given trip within about 24 hours of your drive.
 
For the most part, they are probably just using it to monitor your vehicle speed.

I sincerely doubt that. I do this stuff for a living and I guarantee you that every bit of data is being fed into machine learning algorithms to better identify high risk drivers. Speed is likely highly correlated, but I guarantee you that there are plenty of other data points coming out of that OBDII port that are useful as well. The next step would be to add in GPS data.
 
Anyone with a GM car has been giving this data to OnStar for years. I don't own a GM/Volvo or other just for that reason.

I don't have to testify in court against myself and neither does my car.
 
Anyone with a GM car has been giving this data to OnStar for years. I don't own a GM/Volvo or other just for that reason.

I don't have to testify in court against myself and neither does my car.
This is part of the reason I never installed the new digital onstar system on my 2005 vette when they quit supporting the older analog systems.
 
Anyone with a GM car has been giving this data to OnStar for years. I don't own a GM/Volvo or other just for that reason.

I don't have to testify in court against myself and neither does my car.

My Duramax gave me monthly emails about it's status, for the first few months. Then I plugged in an Edge monitor/gauges(similar to Scangauge) and OnStar was no longer able to read any vehicle information.....if I was really worried about it, the OnStar module is behind the glovebox, and I could unplug it.

As to the OPs concern: I'm fairly sure it won't damage the vehicle. The OBD port usually goes to sleep several minutes after the vehicle is shut down(at least on other vehicles), and anyway, there isn't any information for them to record while the vehicle is parked, so it would make sense for the unit to cut off also.

Everything I've heard from these programs is that most people end up paying more, usually due to driving times. Ex: you're in the car more when accidents are more likely, thus more likely to be in an accident. Doesn't even have to be because of your driving speed or other dangerous maneuvers.
 
I've used progressive's snap chat version in three different vehicles. For them it's a six month period and mail it back. I have never had any issues with the device causing problems. They definitely do monitor vehicle speed. Rates of acceleration and braking habits are their primary means of collecting data by which to give you a discount or stay at your current rate. The snapshot device even beeps at you if doing one or the other to abruptly.
 
Wow, thanks for the feedback... way more than I expected. As to what data they collect, the following was in the User Agreement. I'll also attach the entire user agreement as it covers more info about the data use, etc.
----------------------------------------
Detailed List of Data the Drivewise Device Collects

Welcome to Drivewise, a program that rewards safe driving! The device you plug into your vehicle collects information that is sent back to Allstate over a secure wireless connection.

We share the information used to determine how much you save back with you on our website. We have asterisks (*) by items we use below. However, the device also collects a few additional items. Because they are not used to determine how much you can save, we do not send this detail back to you. But we want to make you aware of everything that we collect from the device.

Trip Report:

  • Timestamp in GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) at trip start and trip end
  • Timezone at trip start used to convert trips to local time
  • VIN (Vehicle Identification Number)
  • Odometer
  • Indicator suggesting that hyper-miling took place
  • Average speed while the vehicle is in motion (not including 0 mph)
  • Seconds driven in speed bands (each band is 10 mph up to 120 mph)
  • Miles driven in each time range (each time range is 1 hour totaling 24 ranges)*
  • Constant speed mile driven in speed bands (each band is 10 mph up to 120 mph)
  • Varying speed miles driven in speed bands (each band is 10 mph up to 120 mph)
  • Seconds driven during deceleration in 1 mph/s bands up to 10 mph/s
  • Seconds driven during acceleration in 1 mph/s bands up to 10 mph/s
  • Count of occurrences braking more than 10 seconds in 6 bands over 6 mph/s
  • Count of occurrences accelerating more than 10 seconds in 6 bands over 6 mph/s
  • Accelerometer orientation flag - indicating whether the device oriented with vehicle
  • Miles driven with small speed variation in 13 individual 5 mph bands
  • Miles driven with larger speed variation in 13 individual 5 mph bands
  • Count of successive acceleration and deceleration
  • Count of excessive speed changes
This information is sent once per trip (a trip is measured as engine on and engine off).

Connect: A timestamp indicating when the device is installed in the vehicle. This is sent once per enrollment or if the device is un-installed and re-installed.

Disconnect: A timestamp indicating when the device is un-installed from vehicle. This is generally sent once per enrollment but also sent again anytime the device is un-installed and re-installed.

Heart Beat: A report indicating device is installed in the vehicle and working. This is sent once per day for the first week, then once per week if regular trips are generated.

Braking Event*: Hard Braking Events are defined as slowing down between 8 mph and 10 mph over a 1 second time interval. Extreme Braking Events are defined as slowing down 10 or more miles per hour over a 1 second time interval. Each braking event is sent once per event.

High Speed Event*: Vehicle speed reaches 80 mph or above. Aggregate total miles spent at or above 80mph. Each instance where the 80 mph threshold is met is sent as one event.

Acceleration Event: Increases in vehicle speed greater than 8 mph per second. Duration is 10 seconds before and up to 30 seconds after. Each acceleration event is sent once per event.

Accelerometer Event: Vehicle exceeds the "At" trigger which is a composite x-, y- and z -vector. This is sent once per event as a separate report.

Battery Level: Voltage of vehicle battery when the battery hits a threshold indicating it may be low. This is sent once per event, sent as a separate report.

Device Data Trouble Codes: Various codes describing the health of the device and the communication with the vehicle. This is sent once per event, sent as a separate report.

Vehicle Data Trouble Codes: If the malfunction indicator lamp indicator turns on in the vehicle, this report will capture the associated check engine error code. This is sent once per event, sent as a separate report.
----------------------------------------

With some of the limits listed (increase speed by 8mph per second, decrease speed by 8-10mph per second, and exceeding 80mph) I might as well own a yugo (no offense meant to anyone out there whose "other car" is a yugo). I do have a hard time dealing with concept that I could be penalized by higher premiums by being a good defensive driver. So I choose to hit the animal in the street rather than do too sudden of a stop, or run that red light. Seems like they are encouraging the wrong sort of behavior with some of this. It appears Drivewise has been around a long time in Canada and has been used for driver training, etc. Is anyone familiar with the company?
 

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You would have to be crazy to install something like that voluntarily. It will be used against you in a crash to establish that you are a habitual . . . (fill in the blank for whatever the lawyer wants to accuse you of). So not worth giving up that information. The risk of it being used against you is not worth the few bucks a year you save. How did George Orwell miss that kind of device in 1984?
 
You would have to be crazy to install something like that voluntarily.

Unless the OP drives like an old lady. Then the savings would be deserved and he would have nothing that could be used against him.

I would never consider installing something like this myself because I'm a paranoid SOB. I keep my GPS turned off on my i-phone.
 
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