Camber on Rear Axle?

[savirc]

Thanks dnp! won't do that for sure

 

[savirc]

Update...

Oh boy.... 40Habits was right.

I took a closer look at the Panhard bar last night and that thing was majorly bent, if that thing was ever suppose to be straight as an arrow you would of never know this thing was ever straight. I really couldn't even take it off.... I put a hydraulic jack at the bend point and bent it back to a sort of straight state. Straight enough to remove anyway, as soon as I did that the tire moved back in place, not measurements yet but it moved back quite a bit.

So then......

Backing up a bit a few days before I noticed the tire wear I had the ABS, Brake Light, VSC, VSC OFF lights go off for a short period on me after making a U turn on an underpass, so I decided to go ahead and check the driver side rear sensor since I was right there already. I pulled out the sensor and its chewed up bad, about 1/4" of an inch and metal shredded around the rotor skid control ring around the shaft. The sensor has two metal bars one was missing looks like broken off, and the other one was chewed up. The skid control ring around the shaft looks like it wore down some too.

Somehow the inner axle shaft shifted close enough for the skid control ring to run into the sensor. I measured the depth of the sensor socket from the out side lip to the skid control gear and came up short of 1" and the depth of the sensor it self before it was chewed is right at 1".

Is the sensor suppose to be that close to the skid control gear? does the inner axle shift that much that it would of touched the sensor?

here are some pics:

 

[savirc]

https://app.box.com/s/qs2c241qukuwuh592d7lk3szfochhvjx
https://app.box.com/s/alj6n46hh7lupfak31gsicv6aqj1jjel
https://app.box.com/s/pq9arndrg5x0l4iss0fopsqrb435l3d2
https://app.box.com/s/euax9r3t6m6gbyfarnwlfcearfzxfdcm

 

[40Habits]

The ABS sensor is supposed to be very close to the ABS ring, just not that close. Now the question is it just the axle shaft that is bent or the housing?

If you rotate the shaft do you get different measurements on the ABS ring?

 

[savirc]

I will measure again tonight, but yes I received different measurements when rotating the shaft and remeasuring the depth very small fluctuation though, it was not by much insignificant almost. I guess I can take the sensor from the other side and measure the depth there take that as a baseline depth and then rotate and measure the other side.

I can't imagine the housing being bent but I guess its a possibility I've worked with Jeep axles that don't look half as stout and take serious beatings, is the Axle shaft not suppose to flex at all? what part of making a U-turn could of made that shaft make impact with the sensor? thats where I'm a little puzzled. I drove the LC for well over 500 miles before this incident I could of sworn I heard the noise the moment that sensor hit, and it was just after a turn.

 

[AimCOtaco]

If you're looking at a bent shaft or housing you may want to find a complete rear axle assembly from a wrecker, if yours has unknown significant damage you may blow a lot of $$ before it's right. The shaft and bearings and housing could be bad and if you start changing 1 at a time you may get in deep.

If you pull the pan-hard you will be able to shift the truck left and right to almost wherever you want. Sounds like you're getting the 4-link with panhard understood though at this point. If the panhard was bent due to a hit on a rear wheel you're going to have some other issues I think.

What's the service history on this truck, is it new to you, any known collision history?
EDIT, 2001 with 65k you just picked up, ok more about the collision and "quality repairs" then?

Good luck with it!

 

[savirc]

If you're looking at a bent shaft or housing you may want to find a complete rear axle assembly from a wrecker, if yours has unknown significant damage you may blow a lot of $$ before it's right. The shaft and bearings and housing could be bad and if you start changing 1 at a time you may get in deep.

If you pull the pan-hard you will be able to shift the truck left and right to almost wherever you want. Sounds like you're getting the 4-link with panhard understood though at this point. If the panhard was bent due to a hit on a rear wheel you're going to have some other issues I think.

What's the service history on this truck, is it new to you, any known collision history?
EDIT, 2001 with 65k you just picked up, ok more about the collision and "quality repairs" then?

Good luck with it!

Thanks Andy,

I've only had the LC for about 3 months, carfax showed "minor" collision on the driver side rear door/quarter panel. I inspected thoroughly and aside from the new paint there as no evidence of door replacement/ quarter panel repair. Only paint I took the inside panels off to inspect the inside of the quarter panel and door looking for welds or fresh sealant but there was not, seemed to only be a paint job and outside panel replacement on the door.

Having said that I think you are right about replacing the entire axle, 40Habits has one he is way out of Texas but I'm willing to travel to get it. I guess time to pull out the yellow pages and start looking around.

The truck drives fine sensor aside, after replacing the panhard do you think I can drive it til I get another Axle?

 

[AimCOtaco]

I would drive it if that's your plan, other than tires, the only accelerated wear would be on the axle assembly parts..

A full replacement may be an overreaction at this stage but I would like to see what that pan-hard looked like overall, was it buckled, did it have smooth bend, abrupt bend, was it scratched from a hook, etc... Trying to get a better idea of whether it was used as a tie down or if it bent due to crash overload. If crash overload then the whole assembly comes into question.

Still trying to understand if it's a single event of multiple issue coincidence...

 

[savirc]

The panhard was bent pretty bad, but it sure didn't look like it was due to impact, it looked like the cruiser was strapped down by it as it was directly bent down right at the center dif. I'll take pics once I take it off but I have all ready corrected part of the bend with a hydraulic jack to be able to take it off lifted the cruiser up with it on to counter act the bend. it was a smooth bend downward right at the center, the paint wasn't even flaked off, no scratches anywhere. I'll take close ups and post them.

I did notice some evidence of previous service to the driver side axle behind the brake caliper, and even on the inside. I'll take pictures of that.

On a side note, I did a 2wd to 4x4 conversion on my XJ and its not buying the whole axle that would bug me, its the installation, but if it needs to be done I'll do it. Just a lot of connections to do, might as well do the lift then at the same time.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[savirc]

Ok here are pictures of the panhard, It looks much better in these pictures as I had counter bend it while on the truck with a hydraulic jack. I couldn't place the jack at the exact bend/crease (spare tire was in the way) so I did it right next to it so now it looks like it has two bends.

I was very surprised how easy the panhard bar bent (when counter bending) next bar that is going in is going to be reinforced with angle bars...

I still don't believe this was not due to an accident but rather someone strapping the truck down by the bar.

After taking the bar off, the tire kicked out back in place somewhat, Its still off but I think I have to lift the truck completely off the ground so the axle can hang and go back to center?

Also I remeasured the socket hole for sensor and it seems that the inner axle also went back into the center 1 1/16" deep, measured several turns on the axle and came up with 1 1/16" all around however the skid control gear has moved out towards the tire about 1/8" so its not centered now from the sensor socket hole. I don't think this will affect the reading but it either means the inner axle moved outward a bit or the ring moved.


Other things I noticed

• gear oil around the skid control gear with particles of metal ( no gear oil on the undamaged one)
• tiny weeping gear oil on the outer seal ( on the outside center with drumb brake)

I went ahead and purchased the locked axle 40habits had for sale, although I think I can replace the panhard and ride for a long while before I need anything, better be safe than sorry.

I do have these questions though.

• Should there be any gear oil around the skid control gear? other side seems bone dry
• If the axle did move out a bit, is this normal?
• Last but most important, do I need to lift the truck completely off the ground to get the axle to center again? Even after taking the panhard off the driver side tire is still almost an inch closer to the frame than the passenger side

here are the pics

https://app.box.com/s/ozbtitb2npk9e31oghdfiktj0fmixgbm
https://app.box.com/s/r177yz0v1d92ybdrwae66forx0byqa2y
https://app.box.com/s/5qxlt5h5ec25ximsehdzebuyutl3d9d9
https://app.box.com/s/jf0c7f5fget3vfma048os0vpnzxizape
https://app.box.com/s/jf0c7f5fget3vfma048os0vpnzxizape
https://app.box.com/s/6f0o9xh82gb6cmpsp968d9pp53onxc69

 

[40Habits]

• Should there be any gear oil around the skid control gear? other side seems bone dry

• If the axle did move out a bit, is this normal?

• Last but most important, do I need to lift the truck completely off the ground to get the axle to center again? Even after taking the panhard off the driver side tire is still almost an inch closer to the frame than the passenger side

The ABS ring shouldn't have gear oil. The axle seal sits on the inside of that and should keep the oil out.

No, it is not normal for the axle to have movement.

As long as nothing else is bent a straight panhard bar will center the axle. You should not need the vehicle off the ground.

 

[savirc]

Thanks Mike, I guess installing the axle is next. Will keep you all posted.

 

[Tres Toys]

I have a 2000 LC that I purchased used several years ago. It looked in to be in very good shape with no signs of accidents or hard wheeling. Had what I thought was a four wheel alignment done on it before installing a set of new 295 BFG ATs. To my dismay the inside of the rear tires wore very quickly. After a couple of trips to different alignment shops I found out that rear axle housing was bent! After considering the options of used axle assembly $$$ or a new axle housing $$$, I decide to try and straighten it myself. After a bit of planning I wrapped a chain around the axle housing on one side of the differential in a double V shape and used a 30T hydraulic jack with a saddle from a harbor freight pipe bender on it at V in the chains to apply some serious bending force. After a couple of snapped chains and the application of some heat with a couple of MAP torches near the housing flange, I was able to get it straight. There is a pretty simple way to check for bend in the axle housing that leads to a toe in or out condition in the wheels. That method is to take off the wheels and place some long straight bars or box tubing across the axle shaft flanges or flat face of the parking brake rotors. If using the rotors as a reference point, install some lug nuts against the drums to ensure they are flat with respect to the axle shaft flange. Then using a tape measure, take measurements from one side of the truck to the other across the bars at equal distances fore and aft of the hubs. If the measurements do not match, then the housing is bent. I used this same measurement method to check many times during the straightening progress. You do have to bend a little past straight(over-bend it) some as the housing will have some spring back. I have put about a 120k mi on it since straightening. The only thing I had to do to it since straightening was to replace the oil seal on the side that was heated. I did drain the oil from the differential before applying heat and removed the ABS sensor put a heat shield on the rear shock. Hope your housing is not bend, but if it is, it may be possible to straighten it.

 

[Stumpalama]

Have you pulled the wheel and checked for play in the axle shaft and runout of the wheel mounting surface?

 

[savirc]

I have a 2000 LC that I purchased used several years ago. It looked in to be in very good shape with no signs of accidents or hard wheeling. Had what I thought was a four wheel alignment done on it before installing a set of new 295 BFG ATs. To my dismay the inside of the rear tires wore very quickly. After a couple of trips to different alignment shops I found out that rear axle housing was bent! After considering the options of used axle assembly $$$ or a new axle housing $$$, I decide to try and straighten it myself. After a bit of planning I wrapped a chain around the axle housing on one side of the differential in a double V shape and used a 30T hydraulic jack with a saddle from a harbor freight pipe bender on it at V in the chains to apply some serious bending force. After a couple of snapped chains and the application of some heat with a couple of MAP torches near the housing flange, I was able to get it straight. There is a pretty simple way to check for bend in the axle housing that leads to a toe in or out condition in the wheels. That method is to take off the wheels and place some long straight bars or box tubing across the axle shaft flanges or flat face of the parking brake rotors. If using the rotors as a reference point, install some lug nuts against the drums to ensure they are flat with respect to the axle shaft flange. Then using a tape measure, take measurements from one side of the truck to the other across the bars at equal distances fore and aft of the hubs. If the measurements do not match, then the housing is bent. I used this same measurement method to check many times during the straightening progress. You do have to bend a little past straight(over-bend it) some as the housing will have some spring back. I have put about a 120k mi on it since straightening. The only thing I had to do to it since straightening was to replace the oil seal on the side that was heated. I did drain the oil from the differential before applying heat and removed the ABS sensor put a heat shield on the rear shock. Hope your housing is not bend, but if it is, it may be possible to straighten it.

Wow amazing you were able to straighten it, I didn't think that was even an option. I don't think the housing is bent, I think the axle was in a bind enough to have a tilt, I guess we will find out soon. I bought a used locked axle from a member here it arrived last week, I just didn't want to go into the fixing route not knowing what all was wrong possibly throwing money at a dead horse if you know what I mean. I know for sure I have a busted seal and that meant already having to take everything apart and I just don't have time for the LC to have that much downtime. I will however check all these things once the defective axle is out, maybe salvageable, its brand new looking otherwise with only 60k miles.

 

[savirc]

Have you pulled the wheel and checked for play in the axle shaft and runout of the wheel mounting surface?

I haven't I'll probably will do that this weekend.

 

[savirc]

So I received the locked axle from 40habits, had some rust, not unexpected coming from the north. Been spending some evenings cleaning it up here are the results of two nights of grinding:


https://app.box.com/s/qzqe6pc436b9dzqfzn3ofrwwwn1dgp42

 

[savirc]

After I took off as much as I can I coated it with Naval Jelly and this weekend I'll throw a coat of flat rustoleum oil based paint

 

[Supra88]

That's a lot of work! Nice job!

 

[RS6tofj80]

Looking really Clean !!