Is toyota covering that under warranty?
Busted front axle twice on 200 series (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bigperm
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- #22
They keep telling me im hitting something to bust it. I Ate the cost the first time. They assume im just lying when I tell them where it happened. Im arguing with them that there is no way for me to bust a CV joint by hitting something. I have full under carriage protection and there is zero way I could smack it. Not to mention my front yard is grass not rocks where it happened the first time.
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- #23
New cruisers suck!!!!!
Update. Toyota wont cover. They say I'm wheeling it too hard. Hmmmmmmm???? I don't recall Toyota telling me don't take this overpriced corolla off road. I guess I can let my wife use it on light rain and light snow days. Oh wait the conditions it broke twice under were no different, I guess we cant use it then either. What a freaking joke. To advertise this station wagon as an off road suv is a joke. I should have bought a real cruiser. The new ones are a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Update. Toyota wont cover. They say I'm wheeling it too hard. Hmmmmmmm???? I don't recall Toyota telling me don't take this overpriced corolla off road. I guess I can let my wife use it on light rain and light snow days. Oh wait the conditions it broke twice under were no different, I guess we cant use it then either. What a freaking joke. To advertise this station wagon as an off road suv is a joke. I should have bought a real cruiser. The new ones are a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Before blowing your head off, know a thing or two about your legal protections. I guarantee if I were in your boat...they'd be payin'!
First, research the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. If you do not know how to argue law in a polite manner, then hire an attorney.
Second, there is a duty on behalf of Toyota as to not mislead the buyer. They cannot falsely advertise.
Go to the Toyota website and print out every single picture you find of the LandCruiser. I guarantee you will find none on a paved road. This is what we call an advertised use of a product. Use your brain to argue, not your voice or anger.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
Sorry to hear about your problem. Here is your problem from a warranty standpoint. "OME 2 inch lift" Once you modded your suspension anything that breaks is on you. Should of put it back to factory spec. before you took it in to the dealer.
Dealerships love to throw around the phrase "void your warranty", but in fact under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty.
The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law so if you have a problem, take it up with the FTC
The warranty states that you can't mod the vehicle and still keep the warranty. It will be your responsiblity along with your lawyers to prove your case. A good test is to take this to a lawyer and see if he will take it on contingence
He won't and Toyota has deeper pockets then most people that mod their vehicle. I would suggest he take this to OME and see if they will back him with a lawyer and fight Toyota. I doubt they will.
The warranty states that you can't mod the vehicle and still keep the warranty. It will be your responsiblity along with your lawyers to prove your case. A good test is to take this to a lawyer and see if he will take it on contingence
I've actually been in multi-million dollar litigation cases against Ford, GM, Jeep and Toyota.
No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance.
For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty.
These provisions violate the Act in two ways: First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service.
Also see US Code - Title 15, Chapter 50, Sections 2304:
(b) Duties and conditions imposed on consumer by warrantor
(1) In fulfilling the duties under subsection (a) of this section respecting a written warranty, the warrantor shall not impose any duty other than notification upon any consumer as a condition of securing remedy of any consumer product which malfunctions, is defective, or does not conform to the written warranty, unless the warrantor has demonstrated in a rulemaking proceeding, or can demonstrate in an administrative or judicial enforcement proceeding (including private enforcement), or in an informal dispute settlement proceeding, that such a duty is reasonable.
(c) Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).
But this is a situation where a mod is directly linked to a failure. The reason this country is in such a mess is people cannot take accountability for their actions. If your engine had blown and they blamed that on the 2" lift you'd have a case, but all the bleeting in the world about Magnusson-Moss will be like pissing into the wind.
Turn up with all the pictures you want and you'll still be laughed out of court. You pay to play, period. If you can't afford to, then you should've left your truck stock.
Turn up with all the pictures you want and you'll still be laughed out of court. You pay to play, period. If you can't afford to, then you should've left your truck stock.
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- #30
Pay to play? I shouldnt expect my cruiser to go in six inches of snow on a hard dirt road?!? Thats my problem I did "pay" to play and got nothing for it. When I pay I expect to get what I pay for. My buddy drove his Tundra right up the very road I broke on. What a joke. The only difference being he didnt have some overpriced 4 wheel drive system trying to outsmart the driver and sending breaking power to a spinning wheel. What does Toyota think will happen when you apply the brake to a spinning wheel?!? Trust me I almost got in a fist fight with service manager. I didnt take it lightly. I started at one dealership and when they said no I took it to the dealership I bought it from. Ive thought about suing but my friend is the GM and his dad owns it. Plus only the attorneys win and its only $1000 fix. Its just the principle. The first break was in my yard so I wasnt really stranded but the second time I was hours from the pavement. I dont trust the pos to get me off the trail now.
Let me understand this your friend is the GM and his Dad owns the place and they won't honor your warranty? Why? What is their reason other then you lifted it and changed the angles at the front of the truck which they feel broke the axle and since it broke before it will continue to break with the OME lift on it and they will be stuck paying not Toyota. You should not be mad. Put it back to stock and fix the axle and then if it breaks it will be covered by the toyota warranty.
I have put loads of torque and binding on my CV's (100 series), I've seen some 200's do some crazy s*** and have no problems. I would pull the CV axle your self and see if you can identify any defects. Have you gotten this fixed yet? Tell them you want to see where the CV axle broke, and what went wrong, then ask to see a new one. See if there is a quality problem.
Could it be that the front end it too high and causing the CV to pull out a bit to far, turning full lock and giving it gas with a lifted IFS rig is extremely stressful, you shouldn't do it. I rarely go full lock on my rig. I have no diff drop and run 1.5" up front.
Could it be that the front end it too high and causing the CV to pull out a bit to far, turning full lock and giving it gas with a lifted IFS rig is extremely stressful, you shouldn't do it. I rarely go full lock on my rig. I have no diff drop and run 1.5" up front.
Not trying to be nasty here, but...here it goes...
Is this an isolated case due to driver error? Two much throttle in the wrong place? I don't know so I ask.
80, 100, 200...I promise you that I can go out and destroy a CV joint in no time IF I wanted to. Lift, no lift, tires, whatever. Lot's of gas breaks parts. Slee did it his first time out in the 100. Too much gas and broke a CV. He said his 80 axle would probably have broken in the same situation.
Are you "crawling" when these CV's are breaking? Or are you on the "gas"?
Is this an isolated case due to driver error? Two much throttle in the wrong place? I don't know so I ask.
80, 100, 200...I promise you that I can go out and destroy a CV joint in no time IF I wanted to. Lift, no lift, tires, whatever. Lot's of gas breaks parts. Slee did it his first time out in the 100. Too much gas and broke a CV. He said his 80 axle would probably have broken in the same situation.
Are you "crawling" when these CV's are breaking? Or are you on the "gas"?
I feel like you should be able to floor any car or truck in the snow with or without traction control and experience no failure.
I've done it plenty of times in my BMW both with and without traction control enabled and have never had any kinda problem, or violent drivetrain jerking, either the wheels spin, or traction control slows them down.
I already made the front end of my cruiser explode in some snow at very low throttle, but hopefully that was addressed with the arb. Are my CV's going to snap now if I happen to punch the throttle in some snow?
Are these things really so weak that you can't put the pedal to the floor without expecting something to snap?
It would be one thing if he had the pedal pinned and was getting air on some slick rock or something, but he said both times he was in snow with very low traction.
Threads like this make my stomach turn...
These things arent that weak......the CVs on these vehicles are really tough.......this forum and youtube have more than adequate evidence to prove it......hell Shotts' pictures and videos alone could prove that the CVs on the 100 are built like tanks. Threads like this are extremely rare, thats why most guys on here immediately start to question the circumstances of the incident.
Your front diff blowing, sadly, was a known problem with 98-99, which Toyota addressed. CV failure is not a common occurrence, this is the first instance of it that I have heard of for a 200 and its rare for the 100 as well.
I also have a BMW, and you cant compare the traction control systems between the two. ATRAC on a LC will literally stop a wheel from turning while on the throttle. BMW's will only apply light pressure to slow down the wheel a little bit.....it also seems to reduce some engine power.
Hang on now. Don't get all excited. The LC is made for a totally different purpose than a BMW. The TC on a BMW is very tight...it kicks in quickly and tightly...similar to the Sequoia or Escalade. It takes such control that in mud and sand the vehicle will simply get stuck and bury itself.
The Cruisers are not that way as they are expected to be in those situations (mud, etc). With a Cruiser you have two TRAC modes that are effected by throttle input.
1. Light to light-moderate throttle...the TRAC system will kick in tightly to control wheel spin...this for general 4-wheeling, crawling, etc.
2. Moderate throttle and up all the way to on-the-floor throttle...TRAC will literally back off and allow 100% engine power to the wheels and it will NOT interfere until you reduce the gas WAY down. Why? So in deep mud, sand, and the like you will have the torque needed to get through. The software design is fantastic! Trust me...I've been in deep mud, in 4-LO, FIRST GEAR, and the throttle TO THE FLOOR with the engine at REDLINE. Wheels spinning mud to the moon...but I got out and thankfully unbroken.
Now...anybody who thinks things can't break when scenario #2 is happening is misinformed. That's OK...I knew nothing about this when I bought my 2001. I had to learn it.
Sorry if that came off wrong, Shoutts was just asking whether the problem was driver error, and if he was using too much throttle.
What I was trying to say is that I can't imagine these trucks are engineered so that if you floor the truck in the snow that the traction system will stop the wheel so violently that something brakes, I suppose I'm wrong?
So, I couldn't imagine that it could have possibly been driver error...?
I agree that this sounds like an isolated issue, and I'm just surprised that toyota didn't take care of him, and accused him of hitting the cv off something...
The BMW is the only other traction controlled vehicle I have a lot of experience in the snow with, so I used it as an example as I have put the pedal to the floor with it many times without the slightest hint of a problem.
What I was trying to say is that I can't imagine these trucks are engineered so that if you floor the truck in the snow that the traction system will stop the wheel so violently that something brakes, I suppose I'm wrong?
So, I couldn't imagine that it could have possibly been driver error...?
I agree that this sounds like an isolated issue, and I'm just surprised that toyota didn't take care of him, and accused him of hitting the cv off something...
The BMW is the only other traction controlled vehicle I have a lot of experience in the snow with, so I used it as an example as I have put the pedal to the floor with it many times without the slightest hint of a problem.
Please re-read my last post.
IF you FLOOR the truck on ANY surface, TRAC will not kick in whatsover.
(Considering that the CDL is locked=VSC off)(IF the CDL is UNlocked then VSC could kick in though VSC also reduces throttle which softens the intervention)
What scenarios cause breakage? One like this...climbing 3 ledges at the same time. Each wheel was on a different height ledge. Only the PS rear was not climbing.
Use too little gas...you don't move. A bit too much...like I tried here...the truck kept hopping up and down. Increase gas more...BREAK BREAK BREAK (like another 100 on the trip).
Here's an example....breakage when the throttle was increased too much:
YouTube - Pyeatt Draw Breakage
YouTube - Pyeatt Draw Breakage
