Brake/Knuckle/Wheel bearing issues

[sjpitts]

My wife mentioned a squeek from the driverside front axle of her 93 FJZ. 125k miles on it. I pullled the wheel to take a look at it, and the outer pad was completey worn down.

This was completely shocking to me, since I had replaced the pads less than 12k miles before (with OEM). Upon further review it is clear that the rotor is shot, it has a couple of grooves on the outside surface. I think this caused that one pad to wear very quickly. The inner pad had alot more room on it.

As a temporary fix I put some cheap autozone pads on. 21 bucks. Kind of scary that they are so cheap.

I also noted that the knuckle is weeping. Pulled the plug to look inside and it looked a bit wet for lack of a better word. Not that you can really see anything. I used a grease gun to put a bunch of grease inside the knuckle, although I know that isn't really supposed to help. It felt good. Although now I worry if I put too much in.

I also changed the diff oil and that was a bit soupy.

So clearly I have issues.

I plan on calling CDAN and doing the whole knuckle deal-- including the knuckle bearings. I will also get new rotors and pads. Should I also do wheel bearings? It seems foolish not to. Do you need any special tool to set the wheel bearing races, or can a aluminum drift be used?

And one more thing. In a couple of weeks I am supposed to drive this vehicle from Arizona to Idaho, and then back after Christmas. Highway driving. I really really really do not have the time to fix it before then. Think it will be OK?

Jared

 

[semlin]

It is up to you. one of my birfs grenaded at 122k shortly after being driven 1000 miles on the highway but you'll probably make it!

Seriously, you know that your symptoms show you have a failure of the inner axle seal. That is admitting gear oil that is washing the grease off your birf. If you delay you may damage the birf or maybe not. If I were you and I was taking the chance, I would at least get the CDL switch now and make sure you have the tools to drop the front drivetrain in case i lost the gamble.

As for the brakes, I would change the rotors before driving in idaho in winter but that's up to you.

 

[Rookie2]

I plan on calling CDAN and doing the whole knuckle deal-- including the knuckle bearings. I will also get new rotors and pads. Should I also do wheel bearings? It seems foolish not to. Do you need any special tool to set the wheel bearing races, or can a aluminum drift be used?

Jared

No. The best suggestion I've heard for this is taking the old race and cut through one side will a ban saw or cutting disc. This makes the diameter of the old race small enough to bang in the new race without getting hung up on the innner hub/disc.

The races are pretty tuff to bang out and back in. I doubt you'd get very far with an aluminum drift.


Rookie2

 

[lovetoski]

The brake pad wear indicator doesn't always "speak up" loudly enough (there was a post on this 6 months or so ago), so you are not the first one that this has happened to. I discovered metal on metal late last spring (8,000 miles ago) and mild scoring on one front disc. It was a sunday, So I purchased the cheapest NAPA pads I could get and slipped them in. Brakes worked fine. Still work fine. I'm sure it's not optimal, but I'm not sure it's a serious problem either. Of course, I don't know how severe the scoring is on your disc...mine wasn't bad at all. I'm collection parts for a full brake overhaul over x-mas break.

The "soupy" diff oil worries me more though. Diff oil does not provide proper lubrication for birfs, nor for wheel bearings. Likewise, wheel bearing grease doesn't protect diffs. If the two are mixing, a long drive could be costly - diff + birf + wheel bearings + a tow...

How soupy is it? Is it thick and green or grey?

If I had no time to fix it, and had to drive, I guess I'd keep the speed down, and maybe change the diff oil partway...or, maybe I'd arrange for the parts to be in Idaho waiting for me, and do the repair while I was there...

 

[NovaFZJ80]

Somewhat in a similar situation as you are...just recently got all 4 brakes/rotors replaced...2 wks later, getting a sporadic grinding type noise on the front PS area when going straight or making a sharp turn. Doesnt happen all the time, but enough to cause me to worry.. Taking back to my mechanic to check it out....

from the search here, think its either a bad wheel bearing (maybe accidently dropped when removing the rotor/hub assembly or a dry spindle... not greased and may need a brass bushing ?? also noticed the round ball has no grease on it at all backside or where the wiper seal is.....

 

[robbie]

Are your wheel bearings real loose? If not you may want to look at the calipers, you may have sticking seals. Did you get the pads for the 93-94 cruiser if so, get the later model year for a 97, same size but different material, will wear longer. You may want to get all the seals to do a alxe survice at the same time. good luck later robbie

 

[NovaFZJ80]

Robbie,

Got the pads/rotors from Dan for the 93 i have.....i'm thinking during the reinstall, something didn't get put back together right causing the sporadic grinding sound....will check the caliper for sticky seal

had the axle service done 5,000 miles ago with the kit from Dan for $200....drove the 80 for 3 months(1,000 miles) then flushed/drained the front diff...still saw contamination (from mixture of new diff oil and what was in the diff prior to rebuild)... so flushed it again a month ago....only a swirl or two of grey, rest was honey colored....

will flush/drain again and see if it is still swirl or more of grey.. if so , then the inner seals weren't put in correctly....

 

[Doc]

No. The best suggestion I've heard for this is taking the old race and cut through one side will a ban saw or cutting disc. This makes the diameter of the old race small enough to bang in the new race without getting hung up on the innner hub/disc.

The races are pretty tuff to bang out and back in. I doubt you'd get very far with an aluminum drift.


Rookie2

Cutting the races isn't a bad idea.

I did the whole job with basically only a brass drift and brass hammer. Worked fine. I'm not sure how aluminium will hold up under the stress of pounding that steel race back in, my brass drifts were pretty much toast after two knuckles.

 

[sjpitts]

Thanks for the replies.

I don't have an reason to suspect that there is a problem with the wheel bearings now. I was just thinking that with 125k miles it would be prudent to replace them while the whole thing is apart.

But then, I don't know how long wheel bearings are supposed to last anyway.

One more thing-- regarding the knuckles. Couldn't you just about fill the entire entire knuckle with lube through the access hole? Then drive around the block a few to get it spread around, and then suck some of it back out?

How much grease would it take anyway? I was thinking about putting a full tube in each knuckle and seeing what happens. Overfilling wouldn't do anything except possible blow the seals, but they are probably already blown, and I will replace them anyway when I return.

Yes, I am really thinking hard, trying to avoid doing this before my trip.

Jared

 

[ryanjl]

It's been argued here before if putting grease in the fill hole actually gets any into the birfield.

Not sure how you are planning on sucking grease out?

The biggest problem you may have is if the grease from the knuckles is making it's way into the differential, which can make one hell of a mess. I'd drain your front diff fluid and see what it looks like, then check to make sure it's full of 90wt about once every two weeks, or so--depending on how bad your axle seals are.

I'd guess that 90wt will lubricate your birfs good enough until you replace the seals, but it will leak past your wiper seals pretty quick too.

 

[sjpitts]

I still need the answer to one question. At what point would guys replace the wheel bearings just to be on the safe side?

Is replacing wheel bearings at 125k miles a good idea or a waste of money? Remember, I have no reason to suspect that they are bad. I am just trying to be prudent.

Jared

 

[landtank]

my front bearings had a wavy wear pattern on the race so they got changed, but my rears looked fine and they were left in. I personally clean and inspect them for discoloration from heat, pitting and wear problems. I don't automaticaly condem them at a given interval.

 

[semlin]

jared, the question is can you get the bearings quickly at a good price if you pull them and they are bad or will you be able to leave the truck off the road if it turns out they are bad. Ideally you could buy them from a place that would let you return them if you didn't use them.

replaced my wheel bearings at 125k and in brother's at 150k but in boith cases I could not see anything wrong with the old ones.

 

[CDN_Cruiser]

One more thing-- regarding the knuckles. Couldn't you just about fill the entire entire knuckle with lube through the access hole? Then drive around the block a few to get it spread around, and then suck some of it back out?

How much grease would it take anyway? I was thinking about putting a full tube in each knuckle and seeing what happens. Overfilling wouldn't do anything except possible blow the seals, but they are probably already blown, and I will replace them anyway when I return.

Jared

Jared:

Having just done this, I now see what the fill hole does very little to get grease to where it's needed the most (inside the birf). If you picture two spheres, one inside the other, with an end cut off, you get a bit of a pictire of the assembly.

Pumping grease into the fill hole effectively fills the gap between the out sphere (knuckle) and the inner sphere (in which the bift sits) and is more likely to fall off the 'back' towards the wiper seal. To be of use, the grease has to go inside the second sphere (towards the hole on the outsides) and then towards the back of the inner sphere and, somehow, into the birf assembly.

I would guess that to FILL this entire area would likely require 5 tubes of grease and that it would almost have to be pressurized to get into the birfield (ie I used a spatula to jam the grease it). Then you have to deal with getting some of it out again, the fact that you are likley pumping in moly grease which does nothing for the bearings, etc.

I hope this makes some sense.

Now, for the other side - I am sure that there are a lot of people (including on this list) that are driving around with blown seals. Anyone that has a ~1997 truck and earlier that has not has this done is likely facing the same problem. Did you see Eric's truck with all the grease in the diff? So, driving for some period with the situation you have is possible and people do it. If you don't fix it now, it's not the end of the world, but be prepared for a more expensive fix at some point later in the future.

Cheers, Hugh

 

[ryanjl]

Jared,

There are two kinds of bearings that came OEM: Timken and Koyo.

Many have argued that the Koyos are better, but IMHO if the Timkens are good enough for Toyota, they are good enough for me.

You can get Koyos through C-Dan.

If you tear apart your hubs, clean and inspect your bearings and decide you need new ones, you can get the correct Timken bearings at your local Autozone.

But there is no time when the clock strikes midnight and your bearings turn into pumpkins. However, at 125k, the law of averages is working against you. If nothing else, your cruiser is long overdue for a simple bearing grease re-pack if it's never been done before.

 

[cruiserdan]

I have Timkins too, in Toyota boxes no less....

 

[landtank]

those boxes add some cost to the bearings though. I'd source the bearings locally from autozone, it may take a few stores to get 4 sets. And then if you don't need them you can easily return all of them to the closet store. A set at auto zone is around 25.00.

 

[cruiserdan]

those boxes add some cost to the bearings though. I'd source the bearings locally from autozone, it may take a few stores to get 4 sets. And then if you don't need them you can easily return all of them to the closet store. A set at auto zone is around 25.00.

It is possible to get Timkins for less than I am able to provide Toyota-boxed versions.

Toyota inners net out at $29.00 each (bearing and race) and the outers are $24.05 each.


D-

 

[ryanjl]

Regardless of where you get your bearings, Jarod, you will have to get OEM (read:C-Dan) grease seals and hub-gaskets just to do the wheel bearings, so you might as well order everything else you'll need to do a whole birf overhaul.

 

[sjpitts]

I got bearings for my 55 (with 60 series axles) checker and they were KOYO. I had to go to several Checker stores to get them. The bearing boxes were generic, but some had KOYO in them and some had another brand.

I briefly considered getting knuckle kit for my 80 from an aftermarket source. Marlin Crawler has a kit that is about 80 bucks cheaper than CDAN's OEM.

But that was all before I was saw the light and became a committed member of the Church of CDAN. I am going to go OEM for the knuckle kit, rotors, pads, and based on what everone is saying, wheel bearings. And maybe a few of those studs with torque heads for good measure.

That is going to cost me.

But you can never underestimate the value of good advice.

Jared