Brake Booster Help (and other brake stories) (1 Viewer)

[AussieHJCruza]

As part of the ongoing saga to make my FJ62 legal to drive on the road here in Australia, I need to do something about the brakes.

I must confess that I've never looked at them other than a bleed/fluid flush, however calipers look brand new, pads had plenty of meat and I thought it didn't stop too badly.

Well, not well enough for the authorities here apparently, so I've decided to explore a few avenues to make it stop properly.

1) visual inspection, all brake components look fine. Soft lines aren't new but look in good condition. Calipers seem new. I don't know what brand the pads, shoes, rotors, drums are but they all seem to have plenty of life. Rotors are a bit scored but not terrible.
2) pulled and released the park brake several times to adjust the rear shoes. Everything seems to move as it should. Park brake works well.
3) bled brakes with fresh fluid. I want to think it stopped better after this but I'm pretty sure it didn't.
4) this gets me to where I am now. I have to pay every time she goes in for the brake test, so I don't want to try lots of things and fail time after time.
5) I'm thinking of starting with a new booster and if this isn't good enough, machine or replacement front rotors and yellow stuff pads. I believe the booster works (pedal drops when engine started, doesn't rise when it's turned off) but it appears to be original and I assume that a new one will be better.

My challenge (sorry, this is very long winded) is that she's a manual transmission Sahara which means a clutch booster as well as brake booster. I would normally go to an 80 series 4 bolt booster but can't be sure it will fit and would like to keep the clutch booster if I can.

Does anyone on here have an 80 series booster fitted to their 60/62 that could take some measurements for me, namely firewall to front of booster and diameter of booster so I can determine if it will fit without spending $500

The other option is to buy one of @Racer65 City Racer Non-US 60/62 boosters however I think (and glad to hear if I'm wrong) that an 80 booster will give me more 'boost'

Pics of truck for good measure because obviously this thread is worthless without pics.

 

[relaxedcruiser]

I have fitted a double diaphragm booster beside my clutch booster without issues - although it came out of a '94 or so Hilux.
Apparently they are the same dia. as the late 60 or 80 series ones just the vacuum port is at annother spot.
Can make a pic tommorow.
Cheers

 

[Seth S]

Can you borrow a set of wheels from a friend that have smaller tires on them closer to stock size and then retake the test?

Before I went crazy trying to upgrade the rest of the system there are some low cost items I would try that would 1) not cost a lot, 2) benefit and align with the stock system:

1. replace your shoes and pads with new ones. Your old ones might be worn enough to no longer grip well and thus add to diminishing your braking efficiency. You can do some pad research and find a compound that is best matched for your vehicle.....ie you don't need a crazy ceramic pad that only works in racing conditions.

2. Replace your flexible rubber lines with braided stainless lines. This makes a noticeable difference and helps remove line expansion from the brake system.

Did the braking test give you a report out? does it tell you the braking % at all 4 wheels? Some of those will tell that type of info which is great data to have. it might point to a corner that's drastically lower.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Can you borrow a set of wheels from a friend that have smaller tires on them closer to stock size and then retake the test?

Before I went crazy trying to upgrade the rest of the system there are some low cost items I would try that would 1) not cost a lot, 2) benefit and align with the stock system:

1. replace your shoes and pads with new ones. Your old ones might be worn enough to no longer grip well and thus add to diminishing your braking efficiency. You can do some pad research and find a compound that is best matched for your vehicle.....ie you don't need a crazy ceramic pad that only works in racing conditions.

2. Replace your flexible rubber lines with braided stainless lines. This makes a noticeable difference and helps remove line expansion from the brake system.

Did the braking test give you a report out? does it tell you the braking % at all 4 wheels? Some of those will tell that type of info which is great data to have. it might point to a corner that's drastically lower.

I did think about smaller tyres, but if I want to be able to run the 35s on the street it'll need to have them for the test.

Maybe it is worth doing a freshen up on the system and trying again before I put a new booster in?

 

[Seth S]

I did think about smaller tyres, but if I want to be able to run the 35s on the street it'll need to have them for the test.

Maybe it is worth doing a freshen up on the system and trying again before I put a new booster in?

I'd say start with the low cost easy stuff if anything to establish a solid base line....then go from there.

 

[relaxedcruiser]

Sorry, totally forgot to take that (booster) pic today - tomorrow...

 

[AussieHJCruza]

No worries. She got new wheels today in case anyone is interested, went from 16x8 N22 offset to 16x10 N30 to give a bit more tyre clearance to the springs at full lock

 

[relaxedcruiser]

So here are finally my pics from the double diapragm booster. As stated earlier that one is from an ~ 94 Hilux but I believe it is the same dia. as the 80 series one. Just cheaper here...that one also has to be mounted upsidedown and the only difference is the position of the vacuum port which is not a issue at all. The Aisin sticker is of course only readable from underneath ... Other than that it was plug and play - It fits like the single diaphragm one, maybe a tad larger.
But be aware that the double booster is not making your brakes any stronger - that is a common disbelieve - it just helps you to push the pedal...I dont want to be without that help anymore though.
Hope that helps.
Cheers

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Thanks @relaxedcruiser appreciate the help

 

[relaxedcruiser]

Picking up the tyre question again....
As my 60 is my dd, work and weekend machine - I've settled down to use 265/75R16 as the standard size for best performance and driveability reasons - the "sunday" shoes are 255/85R16 Toyo MT which are quite tall at 33.5" I love the tall and narrow look but I can instantly feel the drop in brake performance, due to the larger dia.
Anyway - tyre size is quite a question of personal taste and preferred looks but with 35s you will struggle to get a satisfactorily performing brake unless you upgrade to larger rotors....
Of course - It may be just good enough and anyway best to get the brakes in tip top condition.
Not intend to open a skinny vs fat tyre discussion - but we all love pics in threads..... Note that the tyres are on 1.2 bar / 17.4 psi
Do you still need the measurements for the brake booster ?
Have a good weekend !

 

[AussieHJCruza]

I realise 35s will be a battle but I'd like to win it if I can. Next step after booster is more aggressive pads and if this won't work, might be time for brake upgrades.

By my research, the stock 80 booster should be about 230mm diameter?

 

[AussieHJCruza]

For anyone looking in the future, an 80 series brake booster does fit with a clutch booster, it's tight and you need to unbolt the clutch booster/master assembly at the firewall to get it in, but it does fit and does provide a significant upgrade over the originally fitted booster.

I used an Advics version of 44610-60570 which is for a HZJ80 (we can supply if anyone else is looking for one, I don't believe OEM is still available)

 

[Freewheel]

something to check- try plugging your clutch booster hose. The clutch booster can fail, but it holds pressure until you put the clutch in at the same time as the brake. This makes the brake booster lose pressure and gives you the equivalent of manual brakes when you have the clutch depressed. Drove for a few years like that before i figured it out...

 

[NMC_EXP]

No worries. She got new wheels today in case anyone is interested, went from 16x8 N22 offset to 16x10 N30 to give a bit more tyre clearance to the springs at full lockView attachment 3302894

My friend, the more weight you add to tires and wheels, the greater the stopping distance (all else remaining equal). Wheels and tires are enornous flywheels on the ends of your axles. Heavy means slow braking. Heavy means slow acceleration.

Just the way it is - It is just plain physics. You cannot get around that. Put skinny wheels and tires on the car. All else remaining equal, it will stop faster.

Tall and skinny wheels/tires are the way to go.

Good luck

Jim

 

[AussieHJCruza]

My friend, the more weight you add to tires and wheels, the greater the stopping distance (all else remaining equal). Wheels and tires are enornous flywheels on the ends of your axles. Heavy means slow braking. Heavy means slow acceleration.

Just the way it is - It is just plain physics. You cannot get around that. Put skinny wheels and tires on the car. All else remaining equal, it will stop faster.

Tall and skinny wheels/tires are the way to go.

Good luck

Jim

We're getting closer to pulling up how she needs to.

I want to run a 315/75R16 tyre. According to our regulations, if I want to drive my truck on the road legally with a 315/75R16 I have to pass the test with a 315/75R16.

Part of me would go to a 255/85R16 or similar, but then I'd be starting the whole process again and I really can't be bothered with that.

The government doesn't want modified vehicles on the road here and that makes it a challenge for those of us who can't leave anything alone.

 

[F226continental]

What happened in Australia?

I thought it was the land of outlaws! Lol

 

[AussieHJCruza]

What happened in Australia?

I thought it was the land of outlaws! Lol

Nanny state