Bodywork/patch panels - opinions on what’s salvageable

[RWBeringer4x4]

Hey everyone,

I’ve finally got the Clustertruck mostly mechanically sound, and am having a blast driving it. This brings me to the next crossroads in my build - making it pretty...

I bought this 40 because it was remarkably straight (about the best I could find on the east coast). Even then, there is some cancer, dents, and holes to patch...

I’m going to start shopping for patch panels, but having never bodyworked a vehicle before, I don’t want to buy a bunch of metal I don’t need when mine could just as easily be fixed with sheet metal...

I figured I’d post up some pictures and ask opinions of where I’d be better off buying a panel, what I should scrap, and what can be saved.

I am NOT building a trailer queen, and plan to keep the truck rolling for as long as possible. Ie - I’d like to start with the top and doors so I can still drive the truck while working, but I do want to address the cancer starting in the tub eventually, before it gets bad.

Here is my shopping list so far:

DEFINITE:

Door skins all around
Rear QP fender patches as mine have been cut

MAYBE (where I need help)

Rear sill?
Rear quarter curves?

CUSTOM:

My hard top is toast, not sure it’s salvageable. No patches are available so I would need to make these with no experience. Pictures to come, below:

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Let’s stary with the hard top. Reasonably, can this be saved by making my own patches? I have 2 spare drip rails and fiberglass roofs already, but I suspect I will find the sides to be rotted out, both top and bottom, and they definitely are in all four corners.

Holes in the top near the drip rails:

Holes in the rear corners, by the ambulance doors, and what appears to be pretty rotten in the corners:

Rotten at the front door pillars on both sides:

I also believe I’ll find most of the metal along the bottom edge to be rotten as well:

I’m sure this CAN be saved - but can it be saved by an amateur with a hammer a dolly? I don’t mind putting in the labor, but would I be money ahead finding a clean set of sides?

 

[Krondor]

Most of those areas can be patched with 16 Ga sheet metal. I would recommend sanding the areas back to remove all signs of rust. You would then cut a cardboard or paper template for the area and transfer it to the sheet metal. Cut it out then trace the new piece onto the repairable area and cut the damaged area out. Once that is done, tack weld in the new place then grind smooth.

the most important part of this process is removing any signs of previous rust by sanding the areas down. If there are no holes and just surface pitting, you can use body filler or glazing putty to fill the areas in. Just do not use body filler as a patch. But this needs to be applied directly to clean metal.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

The next common trouble spot is the rear floor, sill, and quarter panels.

The panels have been cut and flared:

There is a dent in the driver’s rear panel but I feel like it could potentially be knocked out. I’m just not sure if the rust below it is cancerous or surface...

But I am concerned about this paint cracking at the reflector...

And this starting to show along the sill:

The passenger side just has a home cut for an aux tank that wasn’t installed, otherwise it’s pretty clean. I feel like that hole could be patched with 16 gauge flat steel, without buying a whole passenger side panel...

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

The rear sill is in pretty decent shape, but I’m concerned I have rot forming between the QP skin and the sill based on the rust showing up at the bottom of the quarter panels.

Sill outside:

Sill inside:

Sill from the top - I think the rear sill cover is starting to go, hard to tell with the bedliner but there seems to be a “wave” in the metal. Otherwise, the floor is solid.

I guess my question here is - do I replace the sill and quarters as a precautionary measure at this point, before paint, or are there preventative measures I should be taking now that could preserve it and prevent further cancer? Again, I’m not building a show car, I just don’t eventually want to spend a bunch of money and time prepping and painting just to have the sill rot through a year later...

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

The doors -

These are where I will start, as they obviously need patch panels and a complete overhaul:

Passenger side front is the same, and the ambulance doors are better, but still rotting through in a couple places.

There are also these speaker holes, which should be an easy patch:

I’ve also got some rot starting in the windshield - I haven’t folded it down to get an idea of how bad it is, but I’m guessing I should probably plan on this being rotten too -

The rest of the tub, fenders, floors, etc are in great shape so I think I will be able to get away without floor pans (knock on wood)...

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Most of those areas can be patched with 16 Ga sheet metal. I would recommend sanding the areas back to remove all signs of rust. You would then cut a cardboard or paper template for the area and transfer it to the sheet metal. Cut it out then trace the new piece onto the repairable area and cut the damaged area out. Once that is done, tack weld in the new place then grind smooth.

the most important part of this process is removing any signs of previous rust by sanding the areas down. If there are no holes and just surface pitting, you can use body filler or glazing putty to fill the areas in. Just do not use body filler as a patch. But this needs to be applied directly to clean metal.

My biggest concern about the hard top sides are all the complex corners, boxed bends and smooth curves - seems like they would be hard to replicate with hand tools... not a lot of flat surfaces to work with...

I guess it’s not a question of “can” it be done (of course it can) it’s more - does it make sense from a time and effort perspective or would most folks just junk the sides?

 

[snaggletto]

Dude, I was expecting to see something awful. Your rig is pretty nice from the pictures. Hard tops and doors can be bought. Look for a '78+ hardtop with rear vent windows. The sill and quarters look decent, but every seam of layered metal is VERY susceptible. Focus on cleaning, sealing and protecting what you have. From under the kick vents, to the rockers, to wheel wells, cross members and rear sill. Get a welder and some sheet metal and some ingenuity, and watch some sheet metal fab videos. You can do it!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Dude, I was expecting to see something awful. Your rig is pretty nice from the pictures. Hard tops and doors can be bought. Look for a '78+ hardtop with rear vent windows. The sill and quarters look decent, but every seam of layered metal is VERY susceptible. Focus on cleaning, sealing and protecting what you have. From under the kick vents, to the rockers, to wheel wells, cross members and rear sill. Get a welder and some sheet metal and some ingenuity, and watch some sheet metal fab videos. You can do it!

Yeah most of the truck is in decent shape - I’m just trying to keep it that way! I’m mostly trying to figure out which panels I should plan on buying and replacing vs. repairing.

The hard top HAS to be repaired (or scrapped and replaced with better) but the rest of the truck is sort of border-line.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

Where is this rust you speak of?


Seriously, for a mid-Atlantic rig it looks to be in good condition.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Where is this rust you speak of?


Seriously, for a mid-Atlantic rig it looks to be in good condition.

It’s a California rig that was relocated to the East Coast a couple years before I bought it - that’s the only reason it’s salavageable!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

So the real question at hand is - if I plan to paint the tub, does it make sense to cut out the rear quarters and sill and replace them as a precautionary/preemptive measure, or should I just fix the dents and holes and run them as-is?

Is there a good way to truly mitigate the rust progression between the quarter panel and the “wings” of the rear sill?

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Bumping - 209 views so far, and no opinions on what to do with the rear sill and quarters? I agree, right now, it's in pretty good shape and not really an issue - but I'm curious if folks think what I'm seeing are early signs of the dreaded "sill rot." It may be a couple years before I get to the tub, so I can wait and see how it deteriorates, but if the plan is to paint it some day - I don't want to do a ton of prep work only to have the rust bubble through shortly thereafter. Plus, I'll be placing an order for door panels, so I might as well order everything at once!

If the panels, as they are, can be "saved" by some preemptive work now, I'd love to know how it's done.

Dude, I was expecting to see something awful. Your rig is pretty nice from the pictures. Hard tops and doors can be bought. Look for a '78+ hardtop with rear vent windows. The sill and quarters look decent, but every seam of layered metal is VERY susceptible. Focus on cleaning, sealing and protecting what you have. From under the kick vents, to the rockers, to wheel wells, cross members and rear sill. Get a welder and some sheet metal and some ingenuity, and watch some sheet metal fab videos. You can do it!

@snaggletto - another question for you - when it comes to rust in panel seams, is there anything that can really be done without blowing apart every seam and cleaning them out? Any tips on how to clean those seams? I've got the welder, and I've even got some 16ga kicking around - cutting and patching relatively flat panels seems simple enough. It's getting the appropriate radius on corners and bends that I'll need to learn about.

 

[pb4ugo]

1st, I must say I'm no bodyguy. 1/4's or not is up to you, and whether or not you want stk wheel openings or not. If you want stk openings, Id consider replacing the whole 1/4 panel because of the dents and possible rust in the corners. A bunch of patching is going to require more filler. If new 1/4's are decided on, then I'd probably do the sill too, because you're there already. As for the seams, they make weld thru primers and chemicals to help to treat or stop rust, seam sealer and epoxy primer to seal everything up. In my case on my county cruiser, my dog house will be done with nos fenders and the bib, hood and aprons will be taken down to bare metal and sealed and painted. Then, I'll be driving it and start working on the tub during that time. My tub is rust free so I need to concentrate on some small dents and such. When the tub is done it will get a repaint on the exterior only.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

when it comes to rust in panel seams, is there anything that can really be done without blowing apart every seam and cleaning them out?

Nope, I just tried to seal them up on the exterior side once I finished my body work.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

1st, I must say I'm no bodyguy. 1/4's or not is up to you, and whether or not you want stk wheel openings or not. If you want stk openings, Id consider replacing the whole 1/4 panel because of the dents and possible rust in the corners. A bunch of patching is going to require more filler. If new 1/4's are decided on, then I'd probably do the sill too, because you're there already. As for the seams, they make weld thru primers and chemicals to help to treat or stop rust, seam sealer and epoxy primer to seal everything up. In my case on my county cruiser, my dog house will be done with nos fenders and the bib, hood and aprons will be taken down to bare metal and sealed and painted. Then, I'll be driving it and start working on the tub during that time. My tub is rust free so I need to concentrate on some small dents and such. When the tub is done it will get a repaint on the exterior only.

In order to get the weld through primers and chemicals into the seams, the seams would need to be separated, wouldn't they?

Really, the rear sill is the most expensive component - if my sill was salvageable it saves a good $350 - but I'm guessing there is no way of knowing without cutting the quarters out and looking. I would MUCH rather drive the truck as-is, but I know the back-end rot is an inevitability. Real Steel Cruisers business is for sale right now, so I'm worried our options for decent patch panels will dry up in the future - so part of my wants to stockpile, even though tub work is a few years out. I think the hard top will keep me busy for a good, long while.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

As far as your rear sill and quarters, I wouldn't cut em out.


Clean them up a little on the inside and spray them down with some kind of rust converter, top coat it, and keep up on it. Mine was trashed when I worked on it. Yours doesn't look bad at all. I wouldn't go off the deep end yet.

Clean it and treat it.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

In order to get the weld through primers and chemicals into the seams, the seams would need to be separated, wouldn't they?

From my experience, yes you are correct. That is a big hassle.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

Really, the rear sill is the most expensive component

@Awl_TEQ for the sill, you won't be disappointed.

 

[rkymtnflyfisher]

Keep in mind when I did my tub it was upside down on sawhorses, sandblasted, primed, rust cut out, new metal welded in. After 2-3 coats of epoxy primer on the underside, 2 coats of paint, I used SEM seam sealer on every seam underneath, then I lathered Monstaliner on the entire underside of the tub. I tried to cover every seam underneath the body that I could as good as I could. The inside of the tub I didn't seal as much, I wanted moisture to be able to evaporate from in between seams.