BC government is at it again

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well, well ,well...
i am very happy to see someone take this by the horns...
i am very glad this thread has motivated people to get involved.
cheers boys,

<what an excellent way to start the new year... with a whee bit of hope.>
 
With respect, petitions are almost useless. The view in politics is that 'anyone will sign'. A letter is considered to represent the views of approx. 500 citizens, but in our corrupt and cynical times you have to get right to your politician’s self-interest.

As we don't know how much time we have before this matter appears on the order papers, the first step must be direct contact with your local MLA & MP and in particular with the federal and provincial ministers under whose authority this falls.

This gets public feedback under their noses as fast as possible. Write an email and then send a paper copy of it as well.

Telling them that you are/will be/would be unhappy is not enough. You must tell that that this issue will cause you to become politically active on their behalf (financially or otherwise - spell it out) if they make the right decision, or politically active on behalf of their strongest opponent, if they make the wrong decision.

Go down and pay the $10. to join the sitting MLA/MP's party constituency association. Tell them why your are joining. Not much gets a Member's attention faster than a single-issue group joining their constituency association in numbers - election nominations have been won or lost many times due to single issue groups.

Most MLAs and MPs are home in their ridings at this time of year, many are attending public events. A good opportunity to turn up with some printed information and a copy of your letter and join the handshake line, where you'll get a chance to let the Member know how you feel about the matter and make sure some weasel in their office hasn't just deleted/binned your other communications.

Call the Member's office/check their website to see where they'll be turning up. January 1st Levees are a sure bet for example.

Most towns have radio stations with call in radio shows. Call in, and have your facts straight. Some good free advertising for you importers too.

Above all, let the politicians know ASAP you're mad as hell and are going to do something about it.

For those not in BC, the federal Minister of Transport is probably the best place to send your messages: http://www.tc.gc.ca/minister/contact.htm

Some information about the Minister: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Cannon

And for those in BC: http://www.dir.gov.bc.ca/gtds.cgi?show=Branch&organizationCode=TRAN&organizationalUnitCode=MINOFF
 
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Just because I'm new to your realm doesn't mean I am some flash in the pan, fly by night 'Ricesketeer/Rocketeer' as you put it. I'm 32 years old, and I take my hobby very seriously, as do you as well. Let's put away the attitudes and start some constructive work. We have some great stuff here, lets make it something we can use to beat these fxxxers at their own game.

Actually jhmed, we've met before in that thread I posted a link to. Don't take the ricer references personally, as you can see in that thread I welcome useful input from anyone, as everyone else here does.

On the other hand, this is not the time to be arguing with each other - more than we have to.

If you or anyone else can show how those six points illustrating the safety benefits of RHD are incorrect, please do so. In detail. I can tell you, they're not "theory", because I test & prove them every time I drive my cruiser.
 
Actually jhmed, we've met before in that thread I posted a link to. Don't take the ricer references personally, as you can see in that thread I welcome useful input from anyone, as everyone else here does.

On the other hand, this is not the time to be arguing with each other - more than we have to.

If you or anyone else can show how those six points illustrating the safety benefits of RHD are incorrect, please do so. In detail. I can tell you, they're not "theory", because I test & prove them every time I drive my cruiser.

That will be ICBC's job to prove your statements incorrect. I want all of us to help you prove to TC that they are CORRECT, so they can be used to prove ICBC is INCORRECT when they say that RHDs are dangerous... You and I both know that your points are good and they make sense to us because we have both driven RHDs. We can picture the scenario in our minds... If we can prove your statements to TC in such a way as to show someone who has never sat in a RHD (cuz most likely they haven't) that what you're saying is absolutely correct, then that is our evidence to back up those statements. That could be a serious blow to ICBC's case in this matter. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that pictures are worth a thousand words...

As for the petition, I agree. By itself it is useless. Together with a well-thought out presentation of factual evidence, it might do something. If nothing more than to add another dimension to our case. I have since heard that you have to be careful because some online petitions will not be recognized by the government for that very reason you mentioned. I am in the process of gathering information as to what the government will accept by way of an online petition. If its free to do and doesn't require hours and hours of maintenence taking time away from other aspects of our 'case' then I really don't see the harm in starting one.

I love your ideas about the MLAs. Let's get cracking on them. I'll write my letter tonight and make certain it gets sent both electronically and by hard copy.

I also suggest someone, maybe even myself, contact the Insurance Bureau of Canada and make some inquiries about what they are looking at in terms of auto insurance in those provinces where a private insurance system is in place. The article mentioned them as well.
 
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North of Kamloops last night a guy driving a rental car passed on a double yellow and killed two people in an oncoming truck. Right hand drive vehicles don't kill people, stupidity kills people.

Part of my engineering course this term has dealt with passing sight distances on highways, and the role they play in design. "Unsafe passing" does not mean you get killed edging over the yellow to take a look, just as a Mack truck comes through, rather it means you misjudge the time it will take to pass and the time you need to spend in the opposing lane. This has nothing to do with RHD/LHD, and everything to do with driver perception and judgement.

In my BJ70, my head is less than 75cm away from where it would be in the passenger seat. If I'm 20meters back from a tractor trailer I wish to pass, the difference in sight angle caused by the RHD configuration is 2.1 degrees.
 
The other thing they have to be convinced of is that the owners of JDM's would most likely have not bought CDM vehicles if the JDM's weren't available.
Another way of saying this is "the owners of JDM's would most likely NOT have bought JDM vehicles if these vehicles had been available in CDM versions."

Come on, Mr Toyota USA, let Toyota Canada Free to import modern Cruisers like they always had in Europe!

Mr Transport Canada, it's about time your regulations were harmonized to those of the world, instead of being more and more subservient to those in the greedy gas guzzling US of A!!!
 
So, is anyone going to step up and help out here? Or are we all just going to whine a bit and then roll over and play dead.

I'll tell you one thing, my life is way too busy to do this all by myself.

And I won't do this by myself.

Someone call the ball on something listed above that they can do... or make helpful suggestions on other things that can be done.

LET'S GET MOVING HERE, PEOPLE!
 
If I'm 20meters back from a tractor trailer I wish to pass, the difference in sight angle caused by the RHD configuration is 2.1 degrees.

Good post, Island Moose, but being on the right hand of the vehicle does make passing more difficult.

HOWEVER, passing a semi truck is always going to be difficult because of lack of visibility no matter what side of the car you are driving on, and when all else is studied and argued about, drivers and their lack of judgement cause accidents, NOT the vehicle they drive.

I defy the government to prove otherwise!
 
Island Moose's previous post is the sort of hard factual information that people need in order to form an effective opposition to any governmental regulation challenging the safety of RHD vehicles in a LHD world. Anyone getting this far in this post will make note of the number of opinions there are on this subject: easy to pass, hard to pass, unsafe, stupid. These are all opinions. This is obviously an emotional issue for a number of people, but it will be hard facts, statistical data and simple mathematics that will form a solid basis of opposition.

In this case, a bit of basic trigonometry applied to a particular situation helps to illustrate and quantify the issue.

That being said, I have issues with some of the data used. If you are 20m behind a semi, you are too close. At 100 kmh, you shouldn't be closer than 55m (2 second rule) or 110m (4 second rule) which gives us about 0.75 and 0.52 degrees. Either way, it's not very much, but is still noticeable and can sometimes be a pain in the ass. On the other hand, if you are following that truck at 20m, it would totally obscure a car 2m wide (about 6.5 feet) at about 55m away. That's about twice the length of a B train. Thats not very far, especially when you think of how fast those things pass when they are going the other way. And that's the same thing TC is going to be thinking about when you want to pass a chip truck with an oncoming minivan with the soccermom and 2.3 kids.

The difference still comes down to the weak link: the driver. There are morons who crash "perfectly save" vehicles in otherwise good driving conditions every day.

But, of course, this is just my opinion.

-kevin
 
So, is anyone going to step up and help out here? Or are we all just going to whine a bit and then roll over and play dead.

I'll tell you one thing, my life is way too busy to do this all by myself.

And I won't do this by myself.

Someone call the ball on something listed above that they can do... or make helpful suggestions on other things that can be done.

LET'S GET MOVING HERE, PEOPLE!

Hey, I'm calling you on those oversize text rants! :grinpimp:

Well, I sent my emails last night.

I don't have much more in the way of suggestions at the moment. The most important action anyone can take at this time is to get across to the politicians that there are a lot of people who will be very upset if this is introduced, and will do something politically as a result.

If we could produce drawings showing the visibility & safety advantages of RHD over LHD in the situations I described, those would make an immediate visual impact on people who aren't very familiar with the whole issue, or have trouble visualizing these things - some politicians and civil servants for example. Island Moose - do you have any interest in doing that? Don't mean to put you on the spot, but it sounds like you have the skills.

The next step would be to put those drawings/points and whatever other relevant information we can gather on a dedicated website (not an importer's/dealer's site) so that links to the information can be posted online and emailed to all concerned. Anyone with web expertise like to jump in on that?

I don't know if the Specialty Vehicle Association of BC has taken a postition on this, but there are many other car clubs out there who probably have no idea what is going down: unimogs, pinzgauers... other suggestions anyone?

Has anyone sent an email or called all those importers listed in the 'importers thread'?

4 WHEEL AUTO EDMONTON AB www.4wheelauto.com
ABBOTSFORD JAPAN AUTO ABBOTSFORD BC http://www.abbotsfordjapanauto.com/
ADVENTURE IMPORTS RENFREW ON http://www.adventureimports.net/ REGISTERED DEALER
BONNYBROOK AUTO SALES CALGARY AB http://showrooms.canadatrader.com/197/71
CANYON CREEK TOYOTA CALGARY AB http://www.careze.com
ENS TOYOTA SASKATOON SK http://showrooms.canadatrader.com/65/17
GARAGE AUTO SALES WINKLER MB http://www.garageautosales.com/
HEARTLAND TOYOTA WILLIAMS LAKE BC http://showrooms.canadatrader.com/2331/2492
HJ61.COM N VANCOUVER BC http://www.hj61.com
IMPORT CONCERN EDMONTON,CALGARY AB http://www.importconcern.ca/
JAPAN CRUISER http://www.japancruiser.com/
JAPANESE INPORTS ON http://www.japaneseimports.ca/
JAPANOID VANCOUVER BC http://www.japanoid.com/
JDM VANCOUVER BC http://www.jdmimports.ca/
JDM CARS TORONTO ON http://www.jdmcars.ca/
JDM CONNECTION SPRUCE GROVE AB http://www.jdmconnection.ca/index.html
JDM DEPOT EDMONTON AB http://www.jdmdepot.ca/
JDM MACHINES VANCOUVER BC http://www.jdmachines.com/
JDM WHOLESALE DELTA BC http://www.jdm-wholesale.ca
JDM-IMPORTS TORONTO ON http://www.jdm-imports.com/index.html
JNS-IMPORTS CALGARY AB http://www.jns-imports.com/index.html
J-SPEC IMPORTS REGINA SK http://www.j-specimports.ca/
LUXURY IMPORTS CALGARY AB http://www.luxuryimports.ca REGISTERED DEALER
MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE RICHMOND BC http://www.maxoverdrive.ca/
MILLWOODS IMPORTS EDMONTON AB http://showrooms.canadatrader.com/4271/4730
MONKEYS INC TORONTO ON http://www.japaneseusedcar.ca
MUSTANG CONNECTION ARMSTRONG BC http://www.mustang.bc.ca/ registered BC dealer
NELSON TOYOTA NELSON BC http://www.nelsontoyota.com
OUTBACK IMPORTS WHITEHORSE YT http://www.outbackimports.caregistered Yukon dealer
PENTICTON TOYOTA PENTICTON BC http://showrooms.canadatrader.com/1234/1228
PREMIUM AUTO DARTSMOUTH NS http://showrooms.canadatrader.com/4045/4484
RAMS AUTO SALES SURREY BC http://showrooms.canadatrader.com/3878/4303
RIDGERUNNER IMPORTS NELSON BC http://ridgerunner.ca/index.html
RIGHT HAND DRIVE IMPORTS VANCOUVER BC http://www.righthanddriveimports.com/
RISING SUN IMPORTS SURREY BC http://www.risingsunimports.ca
SCI MOTORS VANCOUVER BC http://www.scimotors.com/
TERRA2TERRA IMPORTS BC http://www.terra2imports.ca/
TYEE IMPORTS CAMPBELL RIVER BC http://www.tyeeimports.com/
UNIQUE AUTO IMPORTS SACKVILLE NS http://www.uniqueautoimports.com/
VI CUSTOM CAR IMORTS PARKSVILLE BC http://www.vicustomcarimports.com/
WESTCOAST IMPORTS http://www.westcoastimports.biz/

Feel free...
 
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Just for interest I called the two importers on the Island here. Both guys I talked to think "it'll take a couple of years..." One hadn't heard at all.

"zzzz...."

TC was saying two years max. 18 months ago....hello!
 
Hi There,



I have been contacted by several people about forming an association of registered JDM importers/dealers. We are giving this some serious thought at the time. I have always thought that an association of dealers is the best way to to fight for the right of the dealers and our customers. To have the owners of JDM's fight the battle so I can stay in business has never sat well with me.

That being said, can all the dealers on this site please contact me at louis@adventureimports.net . This would have to be for legally registered dealers only in my eyes, to have curbsiders in an association would not allow it to be legitimate.

Also, in order to facilitate the organization we would need names and contacts of dealers in Canada, from whom you know of and purchased vehicles from.

The yahoo group can be used as a "venue" for organizing the owners of JDM's - which is a great thing, and can be used in conjunction with an association. I am also sure that support businesses would also be intereted in supporting and joining an association - ie. customs brokers, exporters, shipping companies, etc etc.

If we want to keep bringing in these fine vehicles then we have to protect our businesses.

Any help would be appricated.

Sincerely,

Louis Skebo
Adventure Auto Imports Inc.
613-614-7852
 
first off, any more bickering and i will deleat this thread. it is getting no one anywhere... work together or shut up and butt out. this means everyone who posts here.

now first report from Japan:

Wayne,

In Japan, There is no statictics data for "The comapare of LHD and RHD",
because It is no difference on Traffic accident risks between RHD and
LHD in japan officially, and The evidence shows that THERE IS NOT ANY
DIFFERENCE on "Insurance fee" for RHD and LHD.

Insurance company recognized that "Car itself is very dangerous, even
though RHD and LHD, and if exsits, Center handle drive car like F-1
Style car".

All of insurance company in japan, includes some "International
insurance company " offer SAME INSURANCE FEE RATE for Same Model.
Speak easily, Here is a 1990year BMW 525i, We can buy "LHD model", and
"RHD model" in here, and The insurance fee is same for RHD car and LHD
car, depends on "How many old the driver drive it", or "How many km the
driver drive it", the fee is decided by another factors.

Actually, The statics is researched by a division office of Police , and
MOT in japan, but There is no data to certify The risk of "Driving LHD
Car" in japan.

Some maker , mailnly U.S.Maker, like GM, FORD, and Chrystler, and BMW
and Mercedes, Alfa romeo, most of EU maker has been exporting LHD car to
japan, and Most of Custmer who likes "Imported car" choice LHD car, even
though We can buy RHD model in here.

Speak easily, LHD is recognized as NORMAL, and Nobody talk the Risk, and
the danger of "Driving LHD car in japan".

If We have "Fear to drive LHD car in japan", There is the certified data,
but Nobody think LHD is a special car in here, so Nobody talk about LHD
cars.

>> the accident rate in Japan where LHD and RHD units travel down the same roads.

No data officially released by MOT, Ministry of Transportation in japna,
and by POLICE, and By insurance companies in japan.
This means that The accident is caused by "Car", LHD and RHD is not
concerned with Accidents in here.

second report from Japan:

This is the data, The numbers of Registered Car in japan , until
September 2006.
http://www.mlit.go.jp/toukeijouhou/toukei06/sokuhou/car_possession/images/car_possession06_09.pdf
Officially released by Japan MOT

This paper shows What kinds of cars, registered in japan officially and
legally, the total numbers.
and Classed by Category, and Purposes.

This statictics shows that "There is no class, and category for RHD or
LHD".
and I recommend you to check again the De-registered file of the Japan
car. The document doesn't say any about "LHD or RHD".
This means that "They recognized no difference on accident risks between
RHD and LHD".

All the insurance company decide "How much is the insurance fee" by The
Registration paper of the car, and How many years old of the Driver, for
the car, They don't ask any of LHD and RHD, and The Insurance policy
document has no class, category about "Handle positions".
This means that It is not recognized as a important factor for
"Traffic Accident", LHD or RHD.

third report from Japan:

Wayne,

This is the most famous, and said as "Official released, and reliable
data, statisfic for Traffic accident in japan".
You need install Japanese language plug-in files When you read this file
on ADOBE ACROBAT reader, and Your windows OS P/C.

http://www.npa.go.jp/toukei/koutuu35/20061228.pdf

The total volume is 39pages, so I can't translate this data in details,
but If you can read it, You can easily understand that "THERE IS NO
ISSUE RELATED TO "LHD AND RHD ISSUE", any page, any words in all pages.

This data is researched by All Traffic accident reports, coming from
Each Prefecture Police department office, so We can see all accident
statistics on this document.
Shows The number of Accident In Tokyo, Osaka, and of course All
prefectures in Japan.

And Explains in details about and Categorized by The Reason of "Traffic
accident", Like "Drinking", "Talking on phone", etc...
Never occurs LHD.. in this document.
 
Good info, makes sense. When GM and other foreign makers send their cars to Japan they have to meet the requirements to drive on their roads though ie. rhd headlights and any other MOT requirements. The problem with the vehicles coming here is that no one is making sure that the mods are being done.

If that can be taken care of then most of the battle is won.
 
Good info, makes sense. When GM and other foreign makers send their cars to Japan they have to meet the requirements to drive on their roads though ie. rhd headlights and any other MOT requirements. The problem with the vehicles coming here is that no one is making sure that the mods are being done.

If that can be taken care of then most of the battle is won.

the mods, if any, are done by the importer in Japan. the importer here should be responsible as well. problem isn't that the mods are not being done here, it is the attitude of the BC TC boys. without proof they want to modify the 15 year rule.
no matter how you mod a unit if the driver is an ass, it will reflect on all RHD owners/drivers.
 
first off, any more bickering and i will deleat this thread. it is getting no one anywhere... work together or shut up and butt out. this means everyone who posts here.

What bickering...I think this has been most well behaved; presenting options, ideas, and alternative venues that can lead to inclusivness not exclusivness, and some actual movement in a direction...

There have been some very good ideas and thoughts presented thus far.

Good idea lshobie, and I hope the registered importers can put aside differences and work together. Tough row to hoe...that one.

gb
 
It would be much like the UCDA they have here in ontario I would suspect. Members would have to be registered dealers. Honourable dealers - LOL, well, that's a tough one, honourable isn't easily qualified i guess. Do you know if Million dollar trading, a licenced dealer in ontario is honourable - see what I mean - this is much bigger than the cruiser community now.

A true association has many rules and regs, lawyers and all that are on board as well, people are voted in and out etc etc. It is a big process, lenthy and costly, it is a full time job. I am willing to pay for it to help the cause - not sure if anyone else is though - alot of people talk but few rarely step up.

This isn't the same as the email a few months ago, I haven't joined any other groups - no time at present, knee deep in a restoration, 2 kids, a full time job and my sword restoration business. But the time has come to make a good effort to protect our business and customers.

I just want to see the cruisers keep coming in - that's my main goal.
 
Ya, tough greg, lots of ruffled chests and all that. Hopefully somethign can come about of it.

If I had the cash I would retain a law firm that acts as a lobby group - they get things accomplished - they deal with hard facts - not message board stuff:)
 
It is a big process, lenthy and costly, it is a full time job. I am willing to pay for it to help the cause .

hummm, so no fees to the members and you are going to pay for it? lengthy and costly...hummm... interesting

sorry but i don't need an association of vendors to sell units, my reputaiton will do that for me. i'll pass.
 
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