Batteries

[Comet]

So: Toyota lead acid battery for starter; Optima Blue top AGM as second battery for always on accessories. RedArc Kit 210 battery isolator.

So what you are saying is that I am good? Thats good news.

My understanding was that the AGM will charge up quicker to 80% and then it requires a trickle charge (read slower) to finish off the remaining 20%. That was the rub for me because a battery isolator recognizes 80% and then isolates the house battery. AGM to 80% is good but 100% is better.

Not argumentative, just pulling things from the old grey matter.

 

[Yotahead52]

So: Toyota lead acid battery for starter; Optima Blue top AGM as second battery for always on accessories. RedArc Kit 210 battery isolator.

So what you are saying is that I am good? Thats good news.

My understanding was that the AGM will charge up quicker to 80% and then it requires a trickle charge (read slower) to finish off the remaining 20%. That was the rub for me because a battery isolator recognizes 80% and then isolates the house battery. AGM to 80% is good but 100% is better.

Not argumentative, just pulling things from the old grey matter.

I think I follow. So are you trickle charging the agm from time to time or are you living with 80%?

 

[Comet]

Living with 80% and probably slowly killing the battery. Who knows?

 

[lt1fire]

I currently go to the Interstate Warehouse locally and get their “blems” for under half the list price and a 1 year warranty. It’s funny to go there and see them slap a Honda, Volvo, or other manufacturers sticker on the battery and call it good.

Pretty much what I do everytime I need a battery.

 

[pkniland]

I’m running a AGM Interstate in the 4Runner and the MTP in the 80. Only two years on them so can’t speak for longevity but Both have been great. I ran a NAPA in the 2nd battery spot in the 80 for awhile and was very disappointed. Had an exide in the 100 which wasn’t great either. The interstate blem route is hard to beat

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Am I correct, without using the googlator, that agm batteries Main difference is that instead of parallel plates they’ve wrapped the plates into spirals. Therefore creating more surface area in the same size package? That’s the way I understood It before. The more I read It looks like the biggest problem is that people just aren’t using/charging AGMs properly. A little research yields an issue that most people are only getting about 80% out of them as a result. But there still a lot of threads out there on plate to plate failures which is driving the idea that quality has diminished at Optima. I wanna start my dual battery system with two brand new batteries because as you guys know that dissimilar batteries can cause issues when the old one drags the new one down. Just wanted to make a good decision and see if any of you folks have had any of those issues. For the most part it sounds like you have not. I’ll probably end up with two Optimas when it’s all said and done. I’d like to see this thread continue. I’ve enjoyed the opinions.

Optima specifically has the spiral cell design, not all AGMs. AGM stands for absorbed glass mat, meaning the electrolyte exists in an impregnated fiberglass mat, instead of as a liquid that just flows wherever inside the battery. This is why AGMs are more vibration resistant, can be mounted in multiple orientations, and are sealed.

If you want AGMs, look at the batteries plus bulbs models. I've had two of their group 65 x2power for a few years and they're tops. 5 year warranty too.

X2Power BCI Group 31M 12V 1150CCA AGM Marine & RV Battery - SLI31AGMDPM at Batteries Plus Bulbs

Group 31 12 volt AGM replacement deep cycle battery with 100 AH capacity for marine, boat and RV use. Dual Purpose technology offers both incredible starting power and deep capacity

www.batteriesplus.com

So: Toyota lead acid battery for starter; Optima Blue top AGM as second battery for always on accessories. RedArc Kit 210 battery isolator.

So what you are saying is that I am good? Thats good news.

My understanding was that the AGM will charge up quicker to 80% and then it requires a trickle charge (read slower) to finish off the remaining 20%. That was the rub for me because a battery isolator recognizes 80% and then isolates the house battery. AGM to 80% is good but 100% is better.

Not argumentative, just pulling things from the old grey matter.

Overkill, but good, yes! No kill like overkill. The advantage is that the Dc-dc charger *should* charge the house battery faster than if you had it in parallel. Not sure if that translates to reality, but that's how it should work.

Most batteries charge faster to 80% than they do to 100%.

 

[stevezero]

I've got flooded for my 80 (27 for starting, 29 deep cycle for aux), and a flooded in the gx470 (lexus prorated my old one, so the new one was a steal).

For my teardrop, I removed two 75lb group 29 deep cycles, and went nuts. I have a single LiOn Technology 105 ah Lithium, group 24 size.. I can discharged down to 20%, charge at a very high rate if needed, and can be mounted in any orientation. it has a built in battery management system, and best of all 24 lbs. It has a lifetime warranty, and they go on sale at costco a couple times a year.

My teardrop lost 10% of its weight with that one change. I also replaced my charger with a noco 10 amp smart charger with a lithium profile.

 

[Yotahead52]

Very nice. I’ve been looking into lithium as well for house battery. And @GLTHFJ60 ive been seeing a lot of good things about the X2.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

If you're going lithium for the house battery, then the only way to hit your theoritical maximum charge is to use a Dc-dc charger. Lithium batteries top up at 14.6v, which is higher than your alternator will put out, whereas AGM and flooded lead acid batteries top up at ~14.2v.

In my new lithium setup, I'm not using a Dc-dc charger (avoiding that expense) and think I can get to about 95% straight off the alternator. I plan to investigate that as time and my use of this new system goes on.

 

[stevezero]

If you're going lithium for the house battery, then the only way to hit your theoritical maximum charge is to use a Dc-dc charger. Lithium batteries top up at 14.6v, which is higher than your alternator will put out, whereas AGM and flooded lead acid batteries top up at ~14.2v.

In my new lithium setup, I'm not using a Dc-dc charger (avoiding that expense) and think I can get to about 95% straight off the alternator. I plan to investigate that as time and my use of this new system goes on.

what Johnny said up there...
to get the max charge on lithium, you will need something that gets up higher than 14.1 volts. The BMS can do a lot with "regular" charging methods, but you'll still only be about 85 to 90% charged. Lion markets as a plug n play for rvs and campers, but does add that caveat.

I've got 200+ watts of solar that feeds a renogy controller with a lithium profile. my noco works anytime I have shore power, and can charge/condition flooded, lead acid, and agm too

the two downsides of lithium are upfront cost, and they dont like being charged below 32 degrees F. you can get a heating wrap for them if you live/camp in colder climates. The cost factor isnt that much more when you look at depth of discharge, number of cycles, and lifetime warranty. flooded batts are only supposed to be discharged to about 50% capacity without damage. So to get the same 105 ah, you'll need over 200 ah of batteries of either flavor (flooded or agm)

 

[AndrewHadji]

Am I correct, without using the googlator, that agm batteries Main difference is that instead of parallel plates they’ve wrapped the plates into spirals. Therefore creating more surface area in the same size package? That’s the way I understood It before. The more I read It looks like the biggest problem is that people just aren’t using/charging AGMs properly. A little research yields an issue that most people are only getting about 80% out of them as a result. But there still a lot of threads out there on plate to plate failures which is driving the idea that quality has diminished at Optima. I wanna start my dual battery system with two brand new batteries because as you guys know that dissimilar batteries can cause issues when the old one drags the new one down. Just wanted to make a good decision and see if any of you folks have had any of those issues. For the most part it sounds like you have not. I’ll probably end up with two Optimas when it’s all said and done. I’d like to see this thread continue. I’ve enjoyed the opinions.

AGM batteries are just glass matted, shapes vary, i think oddessy and optima use spirals. AGM, as most other batteries, have an issue when you take them down past 50 % capacity. They do not recover well. You will have to go to Lithium if you want a full charge all the way down into the single digits.
Deep cycle does not refer to going under 50 %, but how many cycles 50 -->100 --> 50 (or 100 -->50 --> 100 if you prefer).

you can take a wet battery and discharge it past 50, but it starts to generate sulphates, which you can resolve by a desulphate cycle and changing the distilled water. AGM batteries do poorly in desulphate cycles due to their glass mats, so less able to recover. Its a trade off. Treated well, and strictly following the 50 % rule, AGMs do very well and last a long time. My starting AGM lasted more than 7 years (diehard platinum) but ive killed two house yellow tops.

For the price, IMO they are not worth it. I know at some point i may not follow the 50 % rule and ive killed AGMs in one cycle. They just never hold the same charge again once you kill it.

Ive gone back to sealed wet, use a desulphate cycle if i do run them down past 50. 2x 150 dollar wet cell with 5 yr warranty vs 2 x 300 + AGM that if im not careful with ill kill is a no brainer for the wet cell all day long.

I have had good luck with interstate batteries. Full disclosure, for house batteries i run lithium, but the 2x under the hood are interstates.

 

[weejub]

Andrew - Your two under the hood - they are for starting only, yes, 24v?

How do you charge the house batteries?

The Odyssey and Northstar (X2 Power) AGM use thin plates vs spiral.


All - One of these may be a way to charge a fridge, etc . . and then charge them off car power while driving and topping off on shore power when possible.

Jackery Explorer 500W Portable Power Station

Jackery Carrying Case is a premium EVA bag designed to fit and protect the Explorer 500 Portable Power Station from damage. Stylish, practical, and durable.

www.jackery.com

Need a Portable Power Generator? Lion Energy Has the Answer

The Lion Safari LT™ is a portable solar powered generator that provides safe, silent, and renewable power for your cooking, communication, entertainment, CPAP, work, and emergency needs. No fuel, smelly fumes, or maintenance needed. At 500W of multiple outputs and only 11 lbs, you can have power...

lionenergy.com

Thanks!

 

[AndrewHadji]

Andrew - Your two under the hood - they are for starting only, yes, 24v?

How do you charge the house batteries?

The Odyssey and Northstar (X2 Power) AGM use thin plates vs spiral.


All - One of these may be a way to charge a fridge, etc . . and then charge them off car power while driving and topping off on shore power when possible.

Jackery Explorer 500W Portable Power Station

Jackery Carrying Case is a premium EVA bag designed to fit and protect the Explorer 500 Portable Power Station from damage. Stylish, practical, and durable.

www.jackery.com

Need a Portable Power Generator? Lion Energy Has the Answer

The Lion Safari LT™ is a portable solar powered generator that provides safe, silent, and renewable power for your cooking, communication, entertainment, CPAP, work, and emergency needs. No fuel, smelly fumes, or maintenance needed. At 500W of multiple outputs and only 11 lbs, you can have power...

lionenergy.com

Thanks!

>>Andrew - Your two under the hood - they are for starting only, yes, 24v?
No im 12v, ones a start and ones for winch + accessories. It used to be starting/house but ive moved to lithium for the rear

>>How do you charge the house batteries?
My charging system grew, so i would do it a bit differently now if i had a blank check

alternator -->BCDC1225 charging Starting + Secondary --> secondary --> 4 gauge to the rear --> RedarcBMS 30 --> redvision -->1x lithium --> 1500 Inverter

Solar cells are connected to the rear bms.

>>The Odyssey and Northstar (X2 Power) AGM use thin plates vs spiral.
Thanks for the correction.

>> All - One of these may be a way to charge a fridge, etc . . and then charge them off car power while driving and topping off on shore power when possible.

Yes, i rocked an arkpak for a long while, it was a beast, most def cheaper.

 

[JohnVee]

Looks like I have some troubleshooting to do on Sarah's dual battery 450. No charge to either battery from the onboard NOCO, and the AUX battery is shown below.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Might not be able to recover that battery.

 

[stevezero]

Looks like I have some troubleshooting to do on Sarah's dual battery 450. No charge to either battery from the onboard NOCO, and the AUX battery is shown below.

View attachment 2409131

they may not have separated, and one battery drug the other down? what kind of NOCO are you running? the noco charger I had had a fuse inline on each bank.

 

[mtweller]

Might not be able to recover that battery.

Yeah, that thing is TOAST

 

[lumbee1]

My fridge killed my new battery the other day. 2nd battery installation just moved up on the priority list.

Costco deep cycle. The 24DC has rc of 140 and the 27DC has a rc of 160.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I had to look up what RC meant. Reserve capacity in minutes it looks like, but it's dependent on temperature (80*F) and amperage draw (25a). More time = more capacity, but it seems like more of a marketing term. Wish they just published the rated AH, as you can more easily calculate your specific usage using AH instead of going backwards from minutes.

Reading I just found, seems pretty good:

Battery Basics - Guide to Batteries | BatteryStuff

Learn how a lead acid battery works, more about battery maintenance and the difference between flooded, AGM and gel batteries. Read the tutorial today.

www.batterystuff.com

 

[weejub]

^^great write up page @GLTHFJ60