Found out my ECU is bad, 1996 LX450. Specifically one of the relays for the front locker. The relay was chattering. Has anyone found an aftermarket replacement for the relays? My searches have turned up nothing, even with the part number from the relays.
Bad locker ECU, are relays replaceable?
- Thread starter CO_Hunter
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Contact IBCRUSN. IIRC, he is dealing with some same issues with his rear locker and has found an aftermarket relay.
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I had a trace on the board burn, had to remove the relays to repair. Didn't get new, but R&R wasn't a problem. If it's chattering, have you made sure it's not a poor connection causing it?
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- #4
Thanks for the lead, I'll track him down.
No, I'm not sure it is not a bad connection, that thought crossed my mind especially since it has started working again. The front locker had been working flawlessly until this weekend when it wouldn't engage. When I first started trouble shooting and cycling the switch I noticed the relay did a double click and as I started checking pin voltages it went to chattering upon switch from RR to FR/RR and the chattering lasted almost a full second. Then finally it started working ok. So I don't know if the movement "fixed" the relay or if my fiddling "fixed" the poor connection. I did look at the back of the circuit board and saw nothing obvious. Might be worth a closer look though. I doubt the problem is in the wire harness. Bottom line I don't trust the ECU anymore.
I have been troubleshooting my rear locker not locking as well. After cleaning and overhauling the motor & actuator and shooting the wires from the locker to the ECU I am fairly certain one of the two relays for the rear locker is bad. I believe one or both have at least burned or pitted contacts because the voltages coming out of the ECU fluctuate from 2-12vdc and will not run the motor.
In a perfect world we would be able to readily find Omron relay P/N G8S-114P-02T. Our good friends over in the UK who own Surf's (4runner) have had issues with power window relay's of the same P/N and provided a relay that's available in the UK and AU but I'm not interested in foreign purchases right now. I have surfed the web nearly to the edge in search of the Omron relays and the best I could come up with is a replacement Good Sky unit.
After checking cross references on a couple of different P/Ns what I have ordered is Good Sky Good Sky RW-SS-112D SPDT from Ken's Electronics in Kalamazoo, MI. The relays are fairly inexpensive at $9.70 each so I ordered four over the weekend. I'd love to say I'll know when they'll arrive but Ken's seems to operate back in the 80's yet with no tracking number, email confirmation or other easy means of contact. I have to wait 15 days from order date to see if they arrive. Once in my hands it'll take a few minutes to solder the new relays in and confirm operation.
Ken's Electronics - It's a long page so it's easier to ctrl F and search for PH86-112
PH86-112 Good Sky RW-SS-112D SPDT pcb mount coil=12VDC-30ma; 10A contactor $9,70
In the mean time I may swap the front locker relays with the rear next weekend just to confirm operation. As soon as I have the new units on hand I'll post up if it ends up being the solution.
In a perfect world we would be able to readily find Omron relay P/N G8S-114P-02T. Our good friends over in the UK who own Surf's (4runner) have had issues with power window relay's of the same P/N and provided a relay that's available in the UK and AU but I'm not interested in foreign purchases right now. I have surfed the web nearly to the edge in search of the Omron relays and the best I could come up with is a replacement Good Sky unit.
After checking cross references on a couple of different P/Ns what I have ordered is Good Sky Good Sky RW-SS-112D SPDT from Ken's Electronics in Kalamazoo, MI. The relays are fairly inexpensive at $9.70 each so I ordered four over the weekend. I'd love to say I'll know when they'll arrive but Ken's seems to operate back in the 80's yet with no tracking number, email confirmation or other easy means of contact. I have to wait 15 days from order date to see if they arrive. Once in my hands it'll take a few minutes to solder the new relays in and confirm operation.
Ken's Electronics - It's a long page so it's easier to ctrl F and search for PH86-112
PH86-112 Good Sky RW-SS-112D SPDT pcb mount coil=12VDC-30ma; 10A contactor $9,70
In the mean time I may swap the front locker relays with the rear next weekend just to confirm operation. As soon as I have the new units on hand I'll post up if it ends up being the solution.
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- #6
Sounds like we have a similar problem. The part number I have is slightly different for the relays. Or else I can't read my own writing or can't read the relay numbers. I'll check the part number on the relay tomorrow. Very interested in what you find out. Seeing how my problem is now intermittent I may have to wait for further troubleshooting, though I will likely take a closer look at the circuit and connections.
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The ground that triggers/holds the relay closed comes from the position/wiper switch in the actuator. It often gets contaminated and/or has hardened grease, causing a poor, intermittent connection.
Just about any relay of the proper amp rating will work. It probably will have a different pin pattern and wont fit in the box, but possibly make a pigtail harness to come out of the box and mount it next to the box?
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- #8
Based on what I have read I'm guessing the the switch is not in the electric motor, rather in the mechanical housing. FSM does not detail the actuator. Hmm... that may be worth pulling off and checking this weekend. If anybody has a good picture of the position/wiper switch that would be great to see. I'll post what I find.
As for the relay, I have the same part number. I guess I could always finagle something onto the circuit board. But if there is a good replacement, even if it is a few more bucks, I would rather go that way.
These intermittent problems are really annoying, hard to know exactly how to be prepared for a future failure.
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- #9
Well Kevin, I owe you a big thank you. I got in there today and this is what I found
Boy am I glad I got in there now!! When I was removing the cover I noticed the small bolts seemed loose, maybe that let water in. Cleaned it as best I could, greased and reassembled with some permatex on the outside of the O ring. Put it all together. I decided to check the rear and that one looked like it had just come out of the factory, super clean, so I left it alone. I was thinking of extending those breathers, anyone know what size hose is best, just vacuum hose? I searched and couldn't find a size recommendation.
So, if I had to guess the poor contacts were the cause of the relay chatter. I'll keep the relay replacement in mind in case there is an issue there as well. Kris, I would still like to know how your relay replacement goes.
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Yep, have seen several like that. Some would recommend exercising and that may get it working, but I prefer to take them apart, inspect, clean, grease and seal when any issues are noticed. They work better and faster with new grease, compared to rust!
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but they are expensive and I have replaced one on my junk. I used vacuum line to extend the breathers into the cab.
relay chatter comes from under voltage situation. i would bet the ground is bad since its the power side or dirty contacts. test your voltage at your ground pin with out the cube in if your not getting 12v its something wrong with your feed. it takes awhile to figure out where the problem lies and patience, the trick is to go step by step.
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I agree that the problem was likely a poor connection. Did you look at the above pictures, those contacts look somewhat dirty?
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I use an OMRON relay in one of my designs. It would likely be a direct replacement for the original, lots of relay manufacturers have similar spec relays with that pinout/form-factor.
Mouser Electronics - Electronic Component Distributor and search for G5LE-14-AP3-DC12 (10Amp contact rating) or G5LE-1-E-36-DC12 (16Amp contact rating).
cheers,
george.
Mouser Electronics - Electronic Component Distributor and search for G5LE-14-AP3-DC12 (10Amp contact rating) or G5LE-1-E-36-DC12 (16Amp contact rating).
cheers,
george.
- Thread starter
- #14
I agree that the problem was likely a poor connection. Did you look at the above pictures, those contacts look somewhat dirty?
I really think that was it and if I find otherwise I'll post up. One was especially dirty but all three contacts cleaned up nicely.
Thanks! I'll book mark it, just in case
I am having issues with the rear e-locker again. almost exactly a year a go it stopped working and I ended up buying a new one with the intention of fixing the old one.
It has worked great for almost a year, in Cruiser Moab 2010, last week of April, first week of May it has worked every time. A month a go I know it worked.
This weekend I tried to use it and again the rear e-locker is not working. Just blinking.
I can hear the relay clicking from the passenger side as normal. I have no problems with the front locker or the center diff.
I jacked up the rear and try to rotate the wheels to get it to lock, nothing. I took the position switch off and try to move the actuator rod but that didn't help.
My next step is to try to see if I can get voltage on the harness, or apply voltage to the actuator.
But I don't know what to do. If I unplug the harness, and test with a volt meter, what should I be looking for:
When I turn the Diff-lock on:
1. what voltage?
2. what pins?
3. How can I apply voltage to the actuator itself and what voltage should I give it?
I need to know if it is the harness side or the actuator side. I can't believe that it is the actuator, it is just shy of one year old, and it is doing what the old one did.
Help! this is very frustrating, especially after buying the rear e-locker and expecting 10 years of trouble free e-locking.
Rami
It has worked great for almost a year, in Cruiser Moab 2010, last week of April, first week of May it has worked every time. A month a go I know it worked.
This weekend I tried to use it and again the rear e-locker is not working. Just blinking.
I can hear the relay clicking from the passenger side as normal. I have no problems with the front locker or the center diff.
I jacked up the rear and try to rotate the wheels to get it to lock, nothing. I took the position switch off and try to move the actuator rod but that didn't help.
My next step is to try to see if I can get voltage on the harness, or apply voltage to the actuator.
But I don't know what to do. If I unplug the harness, and test with a volt meter, what should I be looking for:
When I turn the Diff-lock on:
1. what voltage?
2. what pins?
3. How can I apply voltage to the actuator itself and what voltage should I give it?
I need to know if it is the harness side or the actuator side. I can't believe that it is the actuator, it is just shy of one year old, and it is doing what the old one did.
Help! this is very frustrating, especially after buying the rear e-locker and expecting 10 years of trouble free e-locking.
Rami
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- #16
rhyary,
I'm sure you have searched, there are lots of threads, but have you seen this?
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/17701-rear-locking-dif-assembly-help.html#post172256
Also FSM and EWD are great. Recently got my FSM and worth every penny.
I'm sure you have searched, there are lots of threads, but have you seen this?
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/17701-rear-locking-dif-assembly-help.html#post172256
Also FSM and EWD are great. Recently got my FSM and worth every penny.
Thanks CO_Hunter.
I was looking at RavenTai thread a year a go, got intimidated and bought a new actuator.
I thought I am all set for another 10 years but now i have the same problem.
I still have the old one, so I guess I will have to work on the old one before attempting to fix the new one.
I just can't believe I have to deal with it again.
I was looking at RavenTai thread a year a go, got intimidated and bought a new actuator.
I thought I am all set for another 10 years but now i have the same problem.
I still have the old one, so I guess I will have to work on the old one before attempting to fix the new one.
I just can't believe I have to deal with it again.
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Not knowing what happened to the first one, makes preventing the same problem on the second one more difficult? Did you extend the breather, moisture is one of the bigger problems/failures with them.
When the relay clicks, do you hear the actuator motor run? It should run briefly when switched off-on and again on-off.
When the relay clicks, do you hear the actuator motor run? It should run briefly when switched off-on and again on-off.
Tools,
I did not extend the breather, nor have I crossed water at the breather OEM hight, but I will put it on my todo.
The actuator motor is NOT running. From what I have read, is it possible the contacts in-between position?
I pulled out this morning the old actuator. The 3 Phillips are pretty rusted and I am not sure I will be able to open the motor cover neatly. If I can, I will attempt to fix the old one first.
Fixing the old one:
I understand what to do with the gear mechanism, I read enough about it and I already opened it last year. However, what exactly do I do with the electric motor? Say I am successful in opening the cover. Besides making sure the contacts are in the right place, what should I be doing in there?
BTW, when I opened the actuator last year, the inside looked new and no moisture evidence or rust.
So in short, I am not sure I will be able to fix the old one, but it will give me some training or parts for the new one currently still on the truck.
Also, there has to be a way to test the actual harness. If I give up on the old actuator, I can use the harness from it to see what the actuator sees from the harness. Other than that what will be a way to test the harness?
TIA
Rami
I did not extend the breather, nor have I crossed water at the breather OEM hight, but I will put it on my todo.
The actuator motor is NOT running. From what I have read, is it possible the contacts in-between position?
I pulled out this morning the old actuator. The 3 Phillips are pretty rusted and I am not sure I will be able to open the motor cover neatly. If I can, I will attempt to fix the old one first.
Fixing the old one:
I understand what to do with the gear mechanism, I read enough about it and I already opened it last year. However, what exactly do I do with the electric motor? Say I am successful in opening the cover. Besides making sure the contacts are in the right place, what should I be doing in there?
BTW, when I opened the actuator last year, the inside looked new and no moisture evidence or rust.
So in short, I am not sure I will be able to fix the old one, but it will give me some training or parts for the new one currently still on the truck.
Also, there has to be a way to test the actual harness. If I give up on the old actuator, I can use the harness from it to see what the actuator sees from the harness. Other than that what will be a way to test the harness?
TIA
Rami
Boy did I get lucky!
First it is a good thing I didn't touch the new one yet.
I called cdan and my unit is under warranty for another 15 days. I got it on Sep 16th 2009.
So I am going to put the old one tonight, not even connecting the harness, and send the unit to cdan tomorrow.
I know it is not perfect because ideally we want to know what went bad, but I am not going to take a chance on the new unit. It goes back tomorrow.
First it is a good thing I didn't touch the new one yet.
I called cdan and my unit is under warranty for another 15 days. I got it on Sep 16th 2009.
So I am going to put the old one tonight, not even connecting the harness, and send the unit to cdan tomorrow.
I know it is not perfect because ideally we want to know what went bad, but I am not going to take a chance on the new unit. It goes back tomorrow.
