Bad #2 Piston & Cylinder. Now What? (1 Viewer)

[jcarter]

Answers: Experts looked at my pistons. The "skirts" are scuffed and the pistons should be replaced. He said it's been running HOT! I told him about 8 years ago it overheated & hasn't gotten over 1/2 way since. Maybe I should buck up for a better guage? Maybe my cheap replacement water pump doesn't pump enough? I described the cylinders to him and he said they should be fine. I asked about blade/stone hone or ball (dingleberries, monkey balls) hone. He said ball hones are idiot proof (perfect for me! Ordered on Amazon 1"3-3/4" (95MM) Flex Hone 240 Grit Aluminum Oxide, $42). I also told him I plan on replacing the rod bearings, pistons, rings, but not the crank bearings, he said that's fine.
Here's a pic of the telescoping guage being measured by the caliper.

Notice the book, cylinder with Mark 1 3.7008"-3.7012", later says Max 3.7098". Thus, I put the caliper at 3.710 & made sure it stuck in the cylinders. Thinking through this, it is the most accurate method I had to check.

Questions: OEM or forged pistons? Guy at work said I should consider aftermarket pistons. JE pistons. They're website is complicated. I'll scour the MUD for advice. Cooling? I'm going to add an OEM thermostat & bring in radiator for check, can't afford an OEM water pump. Again, I'll scour the site for aftermarket cheaper one.

Next step. Finalize list of parts and spend money. Start cleaning EVERYTHING!

 

[jcarter]

Budget is hurting. I'm up to $2100. Hopefully I'm WAY overestimating something. I'll talk with C-Dan again. I looked at perfectengine.com and for about $500 they have:
Full Overhaul Gasket Set
Pistons and Piston Rings
Main Bearings
Rod Bearings
Thrust Washers

But that's gotta be some cheap crap! If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is, right? I'm cheap, but not stupid (at least not trying to be).

 

[Kernal]

Have you got prices from a Mud vendor for comparison?

 

[jcarter]

Heck, I don't even have prices from C-Dan yet. Not written down & all.

I'm stuck in LA for a day, need a nap. I'll call C-Dan in a bit and get some quotes. I emailed him, but haven't heard back.

Joe

PS I know my budget is blown, but this is a big job! I think I should "pat myself on the back" with some headers from Man-e-fre, don't you?

 

[jcarter]

DAD-GUMMED RARE LAND CRUISER!

I believe my Land Cruiser was only made for 4 months. Maybe someone can clarify this. It's an 8/1992. I think the 93's had the newer engine and the 90-7/92 were the same.

Bringing me to the piston roadblock. I need (3) Mark 1 (13101-61034-01) & (3) Mark 2 (13101-61034-02). C-Dan told me to get a full set, they'll have to come from Japan in 3 or 4 weeks! Now I'm scouring other sites to see if maybe I can find them somewhere else. I guess I should just order everything, get the gasket set in now & get the head finished. Delays delays delays!

Joe

 

[elhombre]

How close are you coming to the cost of a short block?

 

[jcarter]

$1500 - Pistons, ring set, engine gasket set, rod bearing set.
$3500 - new short block

$400 - machine shop to redo head
$1,500 - new head

These are all budget numbers estimating shipping. I now hope to stay within $2500 (was $1500, but I didn't count on replacing all pistons). $1,500 block, $500 head, + $500 miscellaneous. This is way more than the $600 head gasket job I originally thought, but not HUGE more if I'd gotten a total block rebuild.

Of course I'll still have a lot of 20 year old parts in it, but I think it'll last me a while longer, besides I like working on it and it's the only way I'll get good at working on it.

 

[jcarter]

Ordered Engine Gasket Set, Pistons, Rings, & Rod Bearings from C-Dan, ~$1250.
Estimated head work $360
Injectors $150
160 deg thermostat (stock is 180 deg) from man-e-fre $40
Up to $1800. budget is $2,500, hopefully radiator checks out good & I'll have $600 left over for headers.

It's Saturday morning of 3-day weekend & plans for a family party on a gravel bar of the Bourbeuse River are canceled due to 3" of rain last night. It's a CLEAN day. I bought some Totally Awesome from Dollar Tree, will look at Harbor Freight for a cheap parts cleaner. First I'm going to make sure all cylinder tops are properly reamed & return reamer to O'Reilly's. I'll report back on cleaning products.

It's 9:45AM, got old clothes on, time to cook the donuts. . . .

 

[jcarter]

No More Pisotns, Now what?

Got a call from C-Dan today. He said there are no more Mark 2 pistons left ANYWHERE!

I need (3) Mark 1 pistons & (3) Mark 2 Pistons. Available are (3) Mark 1 pistons & (2) Mark 2 pistons. What to do? I'll post to Engine Genius the question. I think reusing the best of my existing Mark 2 pistons would be the best bet.

 

[OGBeno]

Finding another engine for $500 would be good too.

Rebuild that one.

 

[swampfoxSC]

I assume these "marks" are the hand fitment sizes. Could you not just over bore to the next size up? Or is mark 2 the biggest size? I have 2 running motors I am about o rebuild one of them. I hope I dont run into this. I may be able to sell you one of mine if you are interested.

edi:nevermind I forgot this was a 3fe

 

[jcarter]

I've made my decision:
I'm only going to replace the one bad piston. This was my original plan, but the machine shop said they were scuffed and needed to be replaced. I researched scuffing and took a closer look the the pistons. I think they're fine, so I'm taking the risk.

Not replacing the 5 pistons saves me $450, so I'm going to replace the oil pump, polish the intake, & buy headers, all within the $2500 budget, I think? I am NOT after hi-performance, but have read that breathing better is simply good for the engine.

Joe

 

[jcarter]

Worked Hard Today

I've been procrastinating the clean-up phase, but shipment got pushed up since new Piston order. So this weekend I got some good progress done.

Question: Should I spray brake cleaner from under & clean up the crank & what I can see of the cam as much as possible?

Tractor Engine: C-Dan sent me an email after my "reuse pistons" decision. He thinks I'll be fine with clean & reuse existing pistons. Also, I asked the machinist to "polish the intake", he said don't waste your money. It's a low rpm engine. I'm okay with 50 mph up interstate hills as long as it lasts another few hundred thousand miles.

1. Head to Machine Shop: I was most happy when the machinist said, "Land Cruiser" by just looking at the head. He's done a few. I left the rocker arm with him to be cleaned and the whole bag of little gaskets from the engine gasket set. Also a bag of bolts that came off the head to be cleaned.

2. Radiator: What a pain to remove, but got it out. I'll take it in for pressure test this week. Hopefully it's fine or fixable, $500+ if not.

3. Clean Pistons: Now that I'm reusing 5, I bought a chemdip parts cleaner from Berryman ($30), like a paint can with basket in it. AWESOME stuff! Tops with carbon didn't come off so well, so I put some Berryman B12 ($5) in a coffee can about 1" deep and soaked the tops & scraped them. Then I soaked the rod side in the chemdip. After all clean, hot soapy water, doused with WD40 & ziplocked.

4. Scrape gasket spots: I don't know how you are supposed to keep the head gasket stuff from getting in the holes! I minimized it best I could. Tough job! No wonder everyone is telling me to pull the engine. Oil pan gasket was easy.

5. Cleaned engine: This is a pain on the PS with all the wiring & stuff in the way! I believe the lifter cover on the side has been leaking for years & years. Nasty stuff! Got it better, but I'm thinking about spraying it down one more time with "Totally Awesome" from Dollar Tree, then pressure wash. I'll cover the MAF sensor & distributor. Good idea? DS is a no brainer.

6. "Rust" It's been rainy lately & I realized the open engine is not accustomed to this (duh!). I wiped down all the surface rust really easy, then sprayed it with WD40. A guy told me a good trick is to spray it down with antifreeze, so I filled an empty spray bottle and did.

That's all for now. I'll take some pics tomorrow, any opinions of what you want to see for advice?

Hope you all show some love during re-installation
I feel like a cat climbing a tree hoping he can get back down.

Lucky break: Almost forgot. Late Friday night, me & a couple of buddies were planning an overnight canoe float over the phone. Of course we were having a few cocktails, started at 11PM, ended at 2AM, rough morning, but worth it. One buddy works for a belt & hose manufacturer & says, "Go on the website, put in your vin, send me the list of parts that come up and I'll send them to you." WOW! This is awesome! I knew where he worked, but didn't figure he could or would do something like this. He said he doesn't do it for friends very often, but we're pretty tight.

 

[cruiserbrett]

FYI you can get a better reading for the bore using the snap gauge like sorather than setting it and trying to fit it in a bore)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmXfGan_NXQ

Also highly recommend a micrometer that reads tenths on the vernier scale for best readings of snap gauge. ebay has tons of mitutoyo ones that would be good. 3-4" range, and make sure you get one with a standard.

 

[jcarter]

Thanks for the info Brett, but I'm past all that. I looked at a Mitutoyo gauge on ebay for $160, but it only goes to 0.001", I need 0.0001" to work within spec of the FSM. All & all the clearances were way to tight for anything I could buy within reason. I borrowed a couple of 0.001" micrometers from neighbors & did all cylinders front to back, side by side, 1/3's vertically (6 measurements per cylinder). They all look good, nothing way out of whack.

I'm guessing my low compression numbers were from old rings & poorly seated valves. Both of those I'm getting fixed.

We'll see.

 

[jcarter]

Parts are coming!

C-Dan emailed me yesterday with a tracking number:
4 Rod Bearings Mark B, $12 ea, $50
2 Rod Bearings Mark A, $12 ea, $25
Total for Rod Bearings, $75
Ring Set, $260
Piston Mark 1, $90
Oil Pump, $255
6 Exhaust Valves, $235
Thermostat, $35
TOTAL $950 (Actual with shipping $955.96, I round to nearest $5)

Engine gasket set, received, $305

Injectors went to WitchHunter yesterday, $150.

GRAND TOTAL $1500 ($1410 + ~$90 ball hone & other stuff).
Yet to pay the machine shop. Hoping around $500.
Last will be radiator. Hoping only $25 for pressure test, could be $500 new, but will still be around $2500.
I spent more than I absolutely had to with new exhaust valves + oil pump ($490), but I think it is worth the peace of mind.

Machine shop called & said NO CRACKS!
Said valve guides cleaned up well. But exhaust valves needed replacing. He explained the "big chemical word" was worn off and he could mill it down, but was worried about taking too much material off. I think they are over careful, but they're the experts so I spent the $235 on new exhaust valves.

This weekend will be continued cleaning, rewrap wiring where corrugated plastic disentegrated, radiator to shop, and start honing.

Next week I'll bring up exhaust valves, rings, bearings, & pistons to the machine shop. I'm going to have them assemble the pistons so all I'll have to do is pound them into the cylinders, remove the cap, hook on the crank, reinstall the cap. Also bringing in an exhaust manifold, my first experience with a nut-splitter last summer while replacing the pipe/cat piece damaged a stud.

Next weekend I'll START REASSEMBLY! Expect requests for pictures of YOUR 3FE. I took a bunch of mine before & during disassembly, but may not be enough. I'm figuring 2-weeks + 2-weekends to reassemble which will put me into mid October. Total job taking 2 months. Toja I was slow!

Then break-in process, been doing some research, more to come on that.

 

[93Chewbacca]

I've made my decision:
I'm only going to replace the one bad piston. This was my original plan, but the machine shop said they were scuffed and needed to be replaced. I researched scuffing and took a closer look the the pistons. I think they're fine, so I'm taking the risk.

Not replacing the 5 pistons saves me $450, so I'm going to replace the oil pump, polish the intake, & buy headers, all within the $2500 budget, I think? I am NOT after hi-performance, but have read that breathing better is simply good for the engine.

Joe

I wouldn't bother polishing the intake & headers aren't going to net much noticeable or measurable benefit either. These types of mods give very little ROI, they're "fluff" mods.

Put your dollars into good engine internals and you will have a happy engine for a long time to come.

Cheers

 

[jcarter]

I'm with you Chewy! After the machinist said "don't waste your money" when I brought up polishing the intake, I threw out the $200 polish + $600 headers. Now I've got $800 for new OEM oil pump (will be here today) & OEM radiator if need be.

I keep hearing "Tractor Motor" & ain't seen many "quick" tractors. I do admit the ole' LC is comfortable on the interstates, but it's identity is slow, steady, & durable.

I've been using my wife's Honda Pilot during the project. It's quick, but feels "scared" compared to the LC.

 

[jcarter]

FIRST MISTAKE: Didn't cover crank while honing

I was doing some research on how to clean all the honing grit off of the crank after honing (use a ball hone, flex hone).

I'm going to get hot soapy water and clean off the crank really good and hope to get all of the hone fleck off the crank.

Honing: I hope I did this right. I used "cutting oil" that I bought for tapping since it sticks really good to stuff, sprayed it on the ball hone & inside the cylinders really well. Honing: up & down at medium pace; about 20 sec per cylinder; washed out with hot soapy water; wiped dry; repeated 3 times. The "balls" on the hone were really flat on the sides when I was done. Here's a pic, shoot camera battery is dead, back in a minute.

 

[jcarter]

Reassembly begins!

Okay, I meant back in a little while. Screw the flex hone.

I FINALLY HAVE MY WRENCHES GOING CLOCKWISE! WHHHHEEEWWW!

I've been on the project all day. The radiator hose between the water pump and "pipe wedged into the bracket" is a pain to replace. But I stayed diligent and got it done.

Then the oil pump removal went horrible . Had a burr on the female the pump slides into, took off the distributor and pounded the oil pump out, couldn't get the new one in, so had to take off the oil cooler, to take out the 2 bolts holding the female (with the burr) in the engine block. See "Oil Pump removal - Real time".

Now it's time for reassembly. Before I start, let's see a few before and after pics:


head turned out pretty good. $300 for head work & miscellaneous. All original except exhaust valves.

I think cylinders are looking good too!

I've been working on it today, so a little greasy finger prints. I'm going to get under her, clean up the crank & anything I can reach. Then put the oil pump in, replace side valve cover gasket, install oil cooler, & distributor. I may even get a piston or two in today.