auto or manual?! cant decide

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I have two local guys I trust for tranny builds, and one of them did mine....with Georg's parts in hand and $250-300 in labor and a few other minor parts, I had a perfect tranny.

IIRC, my actually tranny expenses were $1000, parts and labor....add in a GOOD cooler/fan and GOOD shifter (I'll never use anything but Art Carr) and you are in the $1500 range....
 
I rebuilt my TH400 myself using one of those videos. It was actually a really good video. I had two days set aside with a ton of clean bench space. I made do without the tools that would have made it a lot easier.

It lasted about a year. I cooked it in axle deep muck.

I took it to a great trans guy I have near me. It was well worth the money to have him re-do it. It shifts strong and runs cool.

One nice thing about a 4 speed with an Art Carr vs a three speed is that the gates on the three speed won't easily clear for the 1st to Rev gateless shift. They line up right on the four speed.
 
I have a 700R4 and I would describe it as a four speed with an automatic clutch for off road and an automatic on road.
 
art carr shifters are definetly the way to go. forget b & m.......
 
I have one of each. You'll never beat the strenght of the 465, and downhill control is much better because you can put it in first and really slow your rig down. The guys that have a tuff time wheeling with standards probably cant chew gum and walk at the same time!!! :steer:Yes, its more of a challenge but thats what makes it FUN!!!! Fill the damn 465 with 90w and forget about it.
Yes the auto is easier to drive sometimes, and does act as sort of a shcok absorber to the drive train if youre not smart enough to drive a stick, but expensive to fix if you break it.:wrench:
 
Just curious, what is everyones facination with the 700r4. They are clearly weaker than a th400, also what good is overdrive in a rig that will probobly never see 55mph? I know they have a lower first gear, but by the time you add a 4:1 tcase, and 4.88 axle gears does a lower trans gear really matter? Flame away! :)
 
The lower first is a bonus, but you are right, after gearing way down in the cases, it's not that significant. The OD is also an extra gear that you can use in low or low/low range for more gearing options. They are at least as available as a TH350 and as strong.

A TH400 is a stronger trans. It also came with the 203 which is why I used it. They are frequently nearly free, especially if you plan on rebuilding it anyway. there are a lot of aftermarket very strong parts for them and can easily be built to handle 500 h.p. However, they also suck a ton more power to make them work than a Th350/700R4/4L60E. They're not too efficient.
 
i like changing gears.....auto's are for sissies :-) plus it's freaking expensive to build one that will hold up to a beating. if you build a good crossbrace you won't have to worry about breaking the 465 adapter
 
Gumby said:
The lower first is a bonus, but you are right, after gearing way down in the cases, it's not that significant. The OD is also an extra gear that you can use in low or low/low range for more gearing options. They are at least as available as a TH350 and as strong.

A TH400 is a stronger trans. It also came with the 203 which is why I used it. They are frequently nearly free, especially if you plan on rebuilding it anyway. there are a lot of aftermarket very strong parts for them and can easily be built to handle 500 h.p. However, they also suck a ton more power to make them work than a Th350/700R4/4L60E. They're not too efficient.
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I agree that they are not efficient as i own several, but i have never had any problems with them unlike the 700r4 and th350. But my thoughts are that efficiency is not a big concern in a 4wd. I may be wrong though. :)

I have a complete 35 spline th400/203/205 sitting waiting to make its way into the buggy but i just cant make myself take out the 465/205. I guess i love the sticks to much!:D
 
TBIFJ40 said:
I have one of each. You'll never beat the strenght of the 465, and downhill control is much better because you can put it in first and really slow your rig down. Yes, its more of a challenge but thats what makes it FUN!!!!
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Speaking of downhills.. and what if you suddenly realize you're going ass-over-nose? There's only so many revs when you're down in low gear.. With the auto, just mat it and smack the stick up a notch if needed. If I need to slow way down, pulling my 700R down into first can be done in motion without gaining speed.. have fun getting your 465 into granny low while going down a steep hill..

As for challenge.. the trails I wheel are challenge enough. If you need some aspect of your vehicle making it more difficult to drive to provide the challenge, you're on the wrong trail. :flipoff2: That argument ranks up there with keeping manual steering... That's a challenge too!


mminter1973 said:
Just curious, what is everyones facination with the 700r4. They are clearly weaker than a th400, also what good is overdrive in a rig that will probobly never see 55mph?
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I like the deeper first gear (takes me from 33:1 to 40:1), it weighs less, is smaller (front driveshaft clearance can be a bitch), and I do use the O/D when I'm in low range between obstacles..but that's not often.
 
If Im going down hill and suddenly find myself in a situation, I can push in this thing called a "clutch". If I need to put it in first, Im usually in a crawl mode anyway, and theres another thing called a "brake pedal" that I slow my rig down with. :flipoff2:Back at ya!! Yes, I like wheeling my auto as well, but sometimes the old-school clutch action is fun. The controversy of autos vs standards has been around forever, Its whatever you like, prefer, can afford, etc etc etc...kinda like Ford Vs Chevy and all that. The important thing is to get out there and wheel and have fun!:cheers:
 
that 'clutch' isn't all that great on uphills tho....tires spinnin fast, grab a gear and BOOM - there goes your transfer case (watched it happen, more than once)

Then yer stalled, nose in the air, on the edge of rolling, and can't back out....the auto makes those situations 'less' frantic....

the 'softer' shifting and engagement of the auto helps

but you ARE right, to each their own...15 years of a stick shift, only 5 with the auto....
 
I don't have a straight drive so my opinion is somewhat biased. BUt i have wheeled a stick shift and i do wheel my auto a lot. IMHO you have so much more control with the auto. They are much smoother on not only you but your rig also. Use two feet and you really have a lot of options.

Anyone who says going down hills is better with a stick doesn't have the right gears in their auto. Put it in L on the Tcase and L on the tranny and you are golden. Also, hold the brake, give it gas and you can easily launch an auto up a obstacle if you need to.

Plus, it leaves a hand free for drinking that latte!!!
 
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The only autos I have ever owned were my wifey's 04 Yukon and a 79 blazer that was GINORMOUS! Everything else was stick...minis, a YJ, and now my 40. I love manuals........but after driving a bud's *eep with an auto on rocks, I'M SOLD on them. When Project Military Budget gets started here shortly, you better believe it's gonna be an auto!!
 
Love my auto. I had to build a mount from the 700R4 cross member bolts to the NP203 to keep from stripping out the 700R4 bolt holes for the NP203. 700R4 is alum. I took a completely stock 700R4 because I wanted the slip to to handle drive line shock.

Good luck.
 
Ok, thats it. Im getting rid of my standard. The Comment about having a free hand for the Latte did it.
 
you know...the biggest 2 things for me in deciding auto vs stick are cost and preference:

COST i bought my SM420, adapter AND x-case for $100....is it in the truck yet...no, but the bulk of my parts are bought and paid for and its ALOT less out of my pocket for better gears...not to mention i scored a bunch of drive shaft parts as well as a spare diff from the guy

that and i just 100% prefer to drive a standard...wheeling or anything else. all of my trucks are standard, but again thats just my preference


i rest my case....same argument i have with some 8x guys in my club...when i need a soccer mom vehicle so i can reach behind me and smack somebody then...but not until then
"Plus, it leave a hand free for drinking that latte!!!"
 
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i agree with yotawheeler that budget has a lot to do with it. If you have money sitting around then built a sweet auto that has a manual feel with the valve body and all the other cool do dads that go with it. If you are looking for deep gears on a low budget then manuals are a great option and sm465 and sm420 are really easy to rebuild youself. parts are prett cheap and so are the trans.
 
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