ARB's install labor charge (1 Viewer)

[sleeoffroad]

As Steve stated the job includes a knuckle rebuild. If so, then it is not bad at all. Also one thing to remember that job quotes for customers that supply their own parts might not be the same as shop supplied parts. Customer supplied parts open up the warrantee issue. The bearing you supplied failed. Yes it was Toyota, but now who covers the labor. You got a good deal on the bearings from your source, however someone has to remove it and show it to your supplier and convince them it was a parts failure. Since you are now the middle man, it takes longer then if I beat up my own supplier and make sure I get the labor paid for. Your truck is now dead in my shop and I have to store it since this mess gets sorted out.

Just a couple of FYI points. We always recommend for these kinds of jobs, the customer purchases all parts including install kits from the guy doing the job. Might cost the customer a little extra, but in the long run, if something goes wrong, then it is much easier to resolve.

I agree that the way to save money if pull the thirds and bring them in, also doing the electrical and compressor is a huge money saver.

 

[concretejungle]

O.K., this is probably the dumbest question i have asked on this board, but here goes......since the 80 is full time 4wd, and if you are installing gears, you need to replace both front and rear gears at the same time, no? You can't just replace the rear gear causing it to spin the axle at a different rate than the front? Sorry for the stupid question.

 

[best4x4xfar]

You are Correct Concrete,

Must have the same ratio R&P in both ends..

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I'll be in a similar situation when it comes time for me to swap my gears out and have 4.88s installed. Should I pull the third members myself? If I do, I should really do a birf job while I'm at it...which adds to the job...



I don't know if Biff could pull the third members out (or if he has enough confidence in his abilities). Me? I probably could do it, but would prefer to have a buddy with me who'd done it already looking over my shoulder to make sure I didn't screw something up in the process.

Doug-We have you covered on this one.

 

[NorCalDoug]

Doug and HZJ60 Guy,

Am I the only one thinking that either NorCalDoug or the HZJ60 Guy needs to change his avatar.

They are coufusing, especially reading your posts back-to-back!

Mot

Funny. I didn't catch the similarities. I might swap the avatar out if I find a few spare minutes today

 

[NorCalDoug]

Doug-We have you covered on this one.

I do appreciate it.

 

[Biff]

As Steve stated the job includes a knuckle rebuild. If so, then it is not bad at all. Also one thing to remember that job quotes for customers that supply their own parts might not be the same as shop supplied parts. Customer supplied parts open up the warrantee issue. The bearing you supplied failed. Yes it was Toyota, but now who covers the labor. You got a good deal on the bearings from your source, however someone has to remove it and show it to your supplier and convince them it was a parts failure. Since you are now the middle man, it takes longer then if I beat up my own supplier and make sure I get the labor paid for. Your truck is now dead in my shop and I have to store it since this mess gets sorted out.

Just a couple of FYI points. We always recommend for these kinds of jobs, the customer purchases all parts including install kits from the guy doing the job. Might cost the customer a little extra, but in the long run, if something goes wrong, then it is much easier to resolve.

I agree that the way to save money if pull the thirds and bring them in, also doing the electrical and compressor is a huge money saver.

I understand your point Christo, but in a situation like this were a name brand product is being installed (ARB) I don't see a problem. What does it matter if the same ARB locker is bought from the shop shop A or from the install shop, its still an ARB locker, whatever problems occur ARB would cover it. In my situation I bought the ARB locker for $650 shipped, MAF was selling the same locker for $742 again ARB, saving me over $200 for front and rear locker. With the savings I invest in a quality install by MAF. I asked MAF about this and was given the okay. I think either way the shop gets my business, and I save a few hundred bucks. Ofcourse its up to the shop to accept my business if they don't I just go somewhere else and they loose a customer. Now if high quality shops like MAF, and yours would sell the product at a reasonable price I would buy it at the shop where I do the install.

 

[cruiserdan]

The main reason for "one stop shopping" is you avoid "finger-pointing" if you have a problem down the road. If stuff comes from a variety of places you can have a situation where the installer blames the part and the part supplier blames the installer.

D-

 

[Biff]

The main reason for "one stop shopping" is you avoid "finger-pointing" if you have a problem down the road. If stuff comes from a variety of places you can have a situation where the installer plames the part and the part supplier blames the installer.

D-

Thats why you pay a premium install chg. like I"m doing with MAF. You get it install right the first time, and everybody is happy.

 

[sleeoffroad]

In my situation I bought the ARB locker for $650 shipped, MAF was selling the same locker for $742 again ARB, saving me over $200 for front and rear locker.

Therein lies the problem. The profit on the locker (at $650 there is none) is made by someone else. At $650, the profit is probably $50. The shop that sold you the locker at $50 profit is selling under what they are supposed to. Also, they covered the shipping, so they even made less.

2nd problem is, say the internal seal on the locker is bad (manufacturer defect), then who is going to pull the diff, take it apart and send back to ARB. MAF or the dealer that sold the locker? If MAF made the profit on the locker, then it would be easier for them to do this, sort the situation out with ARB and make you happy. Even if they have to chew some cost or get it reimbursed by ARB. Also your downtime is minimized if MAF supplied everything.

In your case, they would have to remove the ARB, hand it to you. You have to resolve the issue with original supplier/ARB and then get it replaced, serviced or the seal replaced. So now your truck is standing at MAF for a week or so taking up space and they have to work around it.

I am just trying to paint the picture ahead of time, since a lot of people don't understand why shops are reluctant to supply customer supplied parts. It only hits them when it is to late.

It is kinda like buying your steak at Costco, then go to Ruth's steak house and have them grill it since you thing they do the best job at grilling steak. Original steak might have been sourced from the same supplier. Catch is now you get food poisoning since Costco's meat was a little off. Who do you blame?

A lot of shops have a higher labor rate for customer supplied parts to make up for the loss in profit on parts.

Now if high quality shops like MAF, and yours would sell the product at a reasonable price I would buy it at the shop where I do the install.

MAF's price for the locker is correct (actually a little lower) in accordance with a agreement all ARB dealers have to sell at MAP pricing.

I am not trying to say that MAF should nto do the job and how they do it is obviously up to them. I am just playing devils advocate. Maybe they did up the install charge to make up for revenue lost and extra exposure they have. However you started by asking if the install costs was to high. Have to compare apples to apples. With customer supplied parts, the equation changes.

 

[Biff]

Again I understand your point and see where you are coming from as a shop owner. My point being as a consumer I am in this to benefit myself not the shop, I'm there for a service and if the shop doesn't provide it I will simply go somewhere else. Paying a premium for a name brand part(ARB) when I don't have to goes against the(benfiting myself part). This is why I go to Cdan and buy parts form him or from you to save money and benfit myself.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Again I understand your point and see where you are coming from as a shop owner. My point being as a consumer I am in this to benefit myself not the shop, I'm there for a service and if the shop doesn't provide it I will simply go somewhere else. Paying a premium for a name brand part(ARB) when I don't have to goes against the(benfiting myself part). This is why I go to Cdan and buy parts form him or from you to save money and benfit myself.

I totally understand that. I am just pointing out what goes on behind the scene. Installing a ARB bumper that the customer has sourced at the lowest price is easy to deal with. However when you get to lockers etc and with potential/possible problems down the line (nothing to do with quality install) things change. It is not a simple bolt on situation. If failure occurs, then it means strip down and determine cause of failure. It is normally at this point where things get sticky as to who bears the cost of this.

I also understand that you are there to benifit yourself, however it is really important to have these discussions with the installer before the problems occur. It is a case of buyer beware. Did you ask MAF what they are going to do when your locker starts pumping oil up the lines (search forum on this) and it has to be torn down to inspect?

Yes, if the ARB locker is defective, ARB will stand behind it. No problem. However it needs to be addressed from the ARB dealer that sold it.

 

[Cube Dweller]

Christo, I agree with you on customer supplied parts. If I had a shop I would only warranty labor for the install. I would not include any labor to remove parts that fail for any reason other than the installation labor.

But manufacturers setting retail price levels is BS. And it's arguably trust-like activity that does hurt consumers. I used to work in bike shops, another industry where manufacturers tried to set retail price levels through influence, threatening to pull dealerships, etc. A couple years ago I took a biz law class from a deputy Atty Gen. of California. He brought in the antitrust guys. I gave him the bike mftr example, and he said it's the type of activity by manufacturers they go after.

Let the market decide. If a retailer wants to sell at little or no margin, that's their problem. They won't be in business long. And the consumers that purchase from them and have an issue down the road will probably get the "number has been disconnected and no longer in service" message when they call for resolution. I spend a few bucks more to keep the good guys in business. But it's up to the individual consumer to decide.

Tony

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I'm in the A/V field. Often I get asked to install components that were bought from another dealer. WE DON'T DO IT, and for the reason Christo said. Something goes wrong it can turn out to be war as to who or what's at fault.

I can tell you this Biff....on something as detailed as a locker....I'd never consider buying the part from ANYBODY but the installing dealer. That's a complicated install that should be stood behind. You want to buy parts and "look out for yourself" then you better install it too.

Save some bucks on the little stuff instead works best for me?

 

[PKP80]

Biff,
RogersFJ40 (ian) can do the rear and run the lines no problem he's done a few lockers. At least you can save half the expensive if you'd like. Contact him or let me know and I'll let him know.
I agree with the whole buy them and install them at the same place, but since you've already purchased the locker I figured I'd offer.

-Sam-

 

[Biff]

Thats your right as a shop owner to reject my business. In this case its the same part, bought from a quality retailer who's been in business for a long time. I understand this install is detailed, that is why I'm going to a quality installer and if something goes wrong with the ARB, then ARB will warranty the locker. I to like supporting the good guys that is why I have bought parts form Slee, Cdan, Hanna. Now I"m investing over $1600 in another good guy shop.

 

[sleeoffroad]

if something goes wrong with the ARB, then ARB will warranty the locker.

Not to bust your chops, but yes, they will warantee it, provided you get it in a box shipped back to them. Or a authorized dealer takes it apart and replaces the damaged part.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Not to bust your chops, but yes, they will warantee it, provided you get it in a box shipped back to them. Or a authorized dealer takes it apart and replaces the damaged part.

Man, if and when something goes wrong with my ARB lockers in the 100, I'd want the ability to get it to the installing dealer and have them just "deal with it". That convenience and peace of mind is worth FAR MORE to me than a few saved $$$z.

Unless one does all the work themselves, who'd want to mess with warranty issues, and they do happen. My buddy's ARB locker in his Disco leaked air and didn't lock just last Saturday.

Mr. Slee is giving VALUABLE advice. Those few saved dollars up front might bite you in the butt down the road if you have to take time off to dink around with installers and shuffling parts. No thanks.

 

[Biff]

Well if that happens, its rare if it does. I've read a good deal of threads here and in other forums, and have spoken with friends that have done the same thing with there lockers and have found that 90% of the problems with the lockers come from the install, the rest are from defective lockers. So following that same logic if I pay for a high quality install, I should eliminate the majority of possible problems.

Anyways I respect everybodys point of view on this, especially yours Christo, and completely understand it. This is just the way I want to do it, based on the information I have gleamed from this forum and others. Next time I do this again, I'll remember what you guys have said.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I sort of agree with all of this. This hobby costs $$ and you have to be ready to pony up for good work you can't do yourself. With that said, I bought my lockers from ...SLEE Off Road. I bought from him just because I wanted to support someone I know and can call and ask for advice or whatever. Not the cheapest, but met my needs the best. At the time, Christo himself advised me to source locally, even though that would mean loosing a sale. I didn't, but mainly because pulling the diffs is no big deal for me at this point, and we have a great local guy who wheels Toyota minis and often get locker installs done same day. In the end, saving $50 is insignigicant. It is far more important to buy and get service from someone you trust who will help you out the day things go bad.

When I broke a rear axle in my 40, it took out the locker as well. After I pulled the diff, Sean at River City Differentials, took it apart while I was there, found the bad parts and ordered same day from ARB. He essentially reassembled the whole locker from parts and it's been fine since. I was a good customer, and he was willing to go the extra mile and get me back on the road. I guess the point is, don't discount the value of excellent service. I'm sure Biff will get good work from MAF, especially after this discussion.