ARB bull bar not compatible with Hi-Lift Jack?

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Dwon said:
I think I've seen someone do just that by cutting a hold in the front of the bull bar and running a large piece of metal through and welding it to the frame. That way there's no force against the bumper when used as a pull point and it won't interfere with the airbags if the holes are large enough to not drag on the bar in an accident (hopefully).

If you do a search you may find the thread.
Click to expand...

I believe you are thinking of this Frame Recovery Point scroll down for pict.
 
Dwon said:
Yep, this is the rig I was thinking of. Pretty cool, it even has a hot running shower installed. Seriously!

But he didn't weld it to his bumper, he ran it through his bumper and welded it to the frame.
Click to expand...


errrrr ya frame. Same thing, back to the :beer:
 
ChuckB said:
I believe you are thinking of this Frame Recovery Point scroll down for pict.
Click to expand...


No the frame recover point is different. I decided to make my own recovery points because the FRL was really expensive and bolts for those FRL where near to impossible to find.

I just used two $10 tow hook's and mounted them to the mounting plate for the bull bar. This is the only good thing about having a spacer on the mounting bracket is the fact that you can easily and cheaply add recovery points.

Then I added spacers into the gap between the bracket spacer and the frame rail because the last bull bar I had deformed the bracket because of the way the u-spacer went in there without any backing support. If you don't have spacers in between the u-spacer and the frame it may cause the mounting bracket to deform and the bull bar to loosen.

So I drilled a new hole and used the hook's rear nut and bold before attaching the mounting bracket to the frame. And then used the foremost existing hole and a new longer stronger bolt to attach the front of the tow hook.

The spacers make it a secure tight setup.


The pics also show off the accordion looking airbag crush zones. The bracket attaches to the frame and the bull bar attaches to those crush zones.

See pics below.
20071203-141526-1.webp
20071203-144219-1.webp
20071127-182522D.webp
 
Hoser/1loudlx are there any modifications required to mount an 03+ combo or sahara bar on a 2000 LX? I would really like to be able to mount an M12000 and the highlift point it even better. :)
 
pman said:
Hoser/1loudlx are there any modifications required to mount an 03+ combo or sahara bar on a 2000 LX? I would really like to be able to mount an M12000 and the highlift point it even better. :)
Click to expand...

I'd check with ARB to make sure it's safe. Mounting a bull bar may be possible but mounting a bull bar safely while maintaining airbag crush zones may not be.

It doesn't sound like many people knew about the necessity of the specific bull bar for maintaining the airbag deployment.

If the 03 bars don't have the proper crush zones for proper airbag deployment on a 2000 LC or LX, i.e. accordion mounts, then you could be liable if there are injuries caused by the airbags not deploying correctly due to your installing an accessory you knew to interfere with proper airbag deployment. I wouldn't chance it if the manufacturer advises against it.

I have a 12K winch mounted to my deluxe bull bar for my 2001 LC. I think the sahara bar should accept the 12K winch.
 
The ARB site says that the sahara for a 2000 only accepts the xd9000 or m8000. I don't know why this is the case. Hopefully 1loudlx or hoser can chime in about the mounts on the 03+ bars.

As for the insurance stuff, ARB and TJM are the only airbag approved bumpers, I don't know of any others that are. Despite the possible liability there are tons of FJ Cruisers and other vehicles that use non approved bumpers. Plus I think these are bumper are so strong, they are liability becuase of the damage they will inflict on the other car.
 
pman said:
The ARB site says that the sahara for a 2000 only accepts the xd9000 or m8000. I don't know why this is the case. Hopefully 1loudlx or hoser can chime in about the mounts on the 03+ bars.

As for the insurance stuff, ARB and TJM are the only airbag approved bumpers, I don't know of any others that are. Despite the possible liability there are tons of FJ Cruisers and other vehicles that use non approved bumpers. Plus I think these are bumper are so strong, they are liability becuase of the damage they will inflict on the other car.
Click to expand...

You can't get in trouble because your rig is better than someone else's. :hhmm:

Having a strong bumper isn't a liability as long as it's designed for your rig and installed according to manufacturers instructions. It may not even be a liability if it's not designed for your rig as long as it doesn't cause further harm to someone else than a bumper designed for your rig would have done (like it flies off in an accident and goes through someone's windshield, or doesn't activate the airbags and your passenger suffers serious injuries as a result). Lawyers are just aching to find reasons to fault you for something in an accident, but they can't fault you for having a tough rig.
 
Alright, point taken on the liability thing. However, does anybody know where the sensors are? I looked at my LX and I can't see any thing on the bumper or mounts that looks like an airbag sensor. I have attache two photos. I really would like to know the differences between the 98-02 and the 03+ bumper mounts.
1.webp
2.webp
 
Stock bumper has no need of the "accordion" mount. The ARB bumper uses this as a means of change the crush rate of their stronger steel bumpers to match that of the weaker factory bumper. Of course, there are other ways to achieve this (weaker mounts, thinner steel, whatever), this is just how ARB has chosen to do it.

I don't know where the sensor(s) is (are).
 
After having installed three different bull bars myself I can tell you there aren't any "sensors" on the bull bar, mounting bracket, or mounting points on the frame. They must be associated with the airbag components.
 
This is some confusing stuff. So your saying that the sensor is like an accelerometer? I really would like to know the difference between the different model years. Can someone get pictures of the mounts for an 03+ bumper?? I would like to compare the two, mainly cause I want to know what Toyota/ARB changed.

Thanks
 
pman, I think the sensor you have circled above might be the outside temperature sensor.

There are two airbag impact sensors in the front. You can see one near the washer fluid refill cap. The other is on the opposite side. The sensors detects sudden deceleration force. Then there is a SRS sensor box under the center console with safing sensor.... that determines whether a crash has actually occured.

As dclee said, the accordion mounts are just ARB's way of doing it. TJM has no such mounts and are also "airbag compatible." AFAIK, the 80 series ARB bumpers also do not have accordion mounts either. If anything, a hard mounted bumper w/o the accordion mounts would deploy sooner rather than later.

The mounts on the '03+ ARB deluxe bar look similar to the 98-02 bar with the accordion mounts except the '03+ bar doesn't have a winch cradle. The winch is directly mounted to the bumper. The bumper is reinforced a bit in that frontal area. I do not know if the '03+ mounts use the same thickness of steel as the earlier mounts. I have not compared the two that closely. A couple of Aussie's have complained their bumpers have sagged where the accordion mounts were. Likely it is a combination of weight of the deluxe bar, heavy winch, thousands of washboard roads and winching. IMO, 98-02 sounds like a better design for a heavy winch.

You can take a look at my install. The only modification needed to install the '03+ ARB bar on an LX is to cut-off the upper light/antenna tabs. That is all.
 
So the 03+ bar puts the weight of the winch on the accordion mounts, but the 98-02 bar mounts the winch before accordion part. Is that correct, or am I missing something. Also, any idea why the 98-02 sahara bar can only accommodate a xd9000 or smaller?
 
So Hoser, have you used the Hi-Lift holes on your bull bar to lift the weight of your rig? Did it cause any deformation in the way the bar sets? If not, then I don't see any reason I couldn't use a Hi-Lift on my bar since it looks like your "accordion" sections are very similar to mine. I'd just lift from under the bar instead of through holes.
 
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pman said:
Also, any idea why the 98-02 sahara bar can only accommodate a xd9000 or smaller?
Click to expand...
I know the front of the combo bar has some extra reinforcement (double plate) but that might just be for the Hi-Lift jack points. I know the mounts are different too.

Dwon said:
So Hoser, have you used the Hi-Lift holes on your bull bar to lift the weight of your rig? Did it cause any deformation in the way the bar sets? If not, then I don't see any reason I couldn't use a Hi-Lift on my bar since it looks like your "accordion" sections are very similar to mine. I'd just lift from under the bar instead of through holes.
Click to expand...
The holes themselves are strong and to the best of my memory are reinforced. The bar itself doesn't move too bad but personally, I'd rather get rid of the accordion mounts as Snook has done. I don't think you could lift under the bar as it is not that strong. You'd be better off getting some shackle mounts, as dclee has done.
 
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Do you think that the mounts on the 98-02 sahara are to weak to handle a 12000lb winch. It doesn't make sense to me that it couldn't, if you use double line pull or triple line pull with the 9000lb would exert more force than a 12000lb single line pull. It seems unlikely that ARB would not have thought about this since they build snatch blocks. It would be nice to get a 98-02 sahara bar and use the new warn endurance 12.0 winch to keep the weight down.

These bumpers really confuse me, I don't the reason for all of the difference between each one. Dwon, is the winch on your combo bar a warn? I'm very curious about these bumpers because I plan on getting one within 6 months and would like to get a 12000 winch,but I don't want to rip it off the front of the rig or compromise the airbag compatibility by getting the 03+ sahara.
 
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